HI

[Dubs]

I'm new here. so Let me introduce myself. My name is Robert, I'm 20, been training for 8 years, since I was 12. I'm 5'11, 200 lbs, 10% bf. At first I got into powerlifting, and my uncle (who was a competitive bodybuilder at the time) got me interested in bodybuilding. I'm now planning my first cycle after 8 years, as I've reached a plateau. Before I decided to go straight to a cycle, i tried different training methods, bumped up my protein and overall calorie intake, more sleep, etc. Cant grow at a decent rate anymore. So, my first cycle. I was thinking about doing "short" cycles, as thats what my uncle had used, with amazing results. 4 weeks on, 6 weeks off, repeat. Here is my rough draft for my first cycle.

Test prop 150 mg monday, wed, friday
weeks 1-4

dianabol 20 mg ED
weeks 1-4

Nolvadex(as PCT, 4 days after last shot of test)
60 mg(day one only) 40 mg rest of week, 20 mgs for two more weeks.
weeks 4-7

Might also run nolva throughout the cycle? as I'm SLIGHTLY prone to gyno.

I'd appreciate comments/advice on this.

Thanks guys!

 

[thebrick]

well… I'm very conservative when it comes to guys 20 years old already making the jump to the dark side. Your test levels should be great already. You may think you have stopped growing, but it hasn't. Its just happening at a slower pace. The early gains are the fastest and easiest. I consider this time as the period when your muscle is maturing. This is the period when you start developing that look that only patience, time, and consistency can give. The more muscle you build naturally, the more muscle you will grow when that time comes to supplement. Just my opinion…

Can you tell use a little more about your training and diet first?

 

[pesty4077]

I'm new here. so Let me introduce myself. My name is Robert, I'm 20, been training for 8 years, since I was 12. I'm 5'11, 200 lbs, 10% bf. At first I got into powerlifting, and my uncle (who was a competitive bodybuilder at the time) got me interested in bodybuilding. I'm now planning my first cycle after 8 years, as I've reached a plateau. Before I decided to go straight to a cycle, i tried different training methods, bumped up my protein and overall calorie intake, more sleep, etc. Cant grow at a decent rate anymore. So, my first cycle. I was thinking about doing "short" cycles, as thats what my uncle had used, with amazing results. 4 weeks on, 6 weeks off, repeat. Here is my rough draft for my first cycle.

Test prop 150 mg monday, wed, friday
weeks 1-4

dianabol 20 mg ED
weeks 1-4

Nolvadex(as PCT, 4 days after last shot of test)
60 mg(day one only) 40 mg rest of week, 20 mgs for two more weeks.
weeks 4-7

Might also run nolva throughout the cycle? as I'm SLIGHTLY prone to gyno.

I'd appreciate comments/advice on this.

Thanks guys!

Your first cycle and you are going to take 590mg? Also, I am confused, how do you know you are prone to Gyno? Are you taking prohormones? You are too young to start, post your stats and DIET. By the way, that is way too much novadex, you take minimum amounts, and personally I think Letro is better. First cycle I took in the early 80's was only 20mg of Dbol, and with proper diet, I grew like a weed.

 

[Ness]

At your age, I would hold off on the gear for a few more years. If I were in your shoes, I would invest the money into a pro trainer like Phil Hernon rather than gear. A good trainer might see holes in your diet and training program that you might not be aware of and you can tap further into your genetic potential. At any rate, good luck!

 

[drob29]

well… I'm very conservative when it comes to guys 20 years old already making the jump to the dark side. Your test levels should be great already. You may think you have stopped growing, but it hasn't. Its just happening at a slower pace. The early gains are the fastest and easiest. I consider this time as the period when your muscle is maturing. This is the period when you start developing that look that only patience, time, and consistency can give. The more muscle you build naturally, the more muscle you will grow when that time comes to supplement. Just my opinion..

?

I agree 100% with this.

 

[Dubs]

Well, I had blood work done a little while ago. and my natural test levels arent anywhere as high as they should be, according to my doctor. Although, not LOW enough for HRT. Im 20 years old, 5'11 203 @ 10% bf. My diet is about 4-5000 calories/day 50/30/20 protein, carbs, fats. Being trained by an old friend, who has had his training certification for 10 years, and been a nutritionist for about the same amount of time. He is what I would call an expert in most forms of training, and he currently has me on DC, because i had not used it, and volume stopped working well for me. I know, 20 is a little too young, but I know guys who are already on juice at ages 16-19. At least I waited this long. All i want is a little cycle help

 

[drob29]

Well, I had blood work done a little while ago. and my natural test levels arent anywhere as high as they should be, according to my doctor. Although, not LOW enough for HRT. Im 20 years old, 5'11 203 @ 10% bf. My diet is about 4-5000 calories/day 50/30/20 protein, carbs, fats. Being trained by an old friend, who has had his training certification for 10 years, and been a nutritionist for about the same amount of time. He is what I would call an expert in most forms of training, and he currently has me on DC, because i had not used it, and volume stopped working well for me. I know, 20 is a little too young, but I know guys who are already on juice at ages 16-19. At least I waited this long. All i want is a little cycle help

Your stats are solid. You got there with hard work and goor diet. In three more years of natural training you will be 225 at 10%, and you can look back and say "I am gald I didnt do steroids when I was 20".

Because, IMO, 20 year olds should not use AAS. I'll go out on a limb and say you wont find many members here that will say its a good idea to use AAS at 20.

Also, if your test is that low, then you would not be where you are now stats wise. TRT/HRT is the last thing you want to look into at 20 years old. Look into some natural supplements to help boost natural test production if you like. Avoid AAS.

"my 3 cents"

 

[Dubs]

And in response to pesty's question about how i know im prone to gyno. I had used PH's a while back, maybe when i was 17. High dosages, because from what id heard, very little coverted to test. I had a minor case of gyno, which i treated with adex.

What if I were to run the same dosing protocol, but lower actual dosages. Test prop, instead of 150/ injection, maybe 75-100. Keep dbol the same. And for PCT, maybe start nolva off at 40mgs for the first week, and 20 mgs for the next 2-3 weeks?

Also, my friend who is 17 is around the same height as me, and outweighs me by around 30 lbs. He has been using juice for about a year, so a couple cycles. He doesnt even plan on competing like i do.. Im not looking for the easy way out, Just, Ive seen the guys that id have to compete against in my weight class, if i plan to do a competition asap, i need to get to the next level of bodybuilding, which involves using steroids.

 

[pesty4077]

And in response to pesty's question about how i know im prone to gyno. I had used PH's a while back, maybe when i was 17. High dosages, because from what id heard, very little coverted to test. I had a minor case of gyno, which i treated with adex.

What if I were to run the same dosing protocol, but lower actual dosages. Test prop, instead of 150/ injection, maybe 75-100. Keep dbol the same. And for PCT, maybe start nolva off at 40mgs for the first week, and 20 mgs for the next 2-3 weeks?

Also, my friend who is 17 is around the same height as me, and outweighs me by around 30 lbs. He has been using juice for about a year, so a couple cycles. He doesnt even plan on competing like i do.. Im not looking for the easy way out, Just, Ive seen the guys that id have to compete against in my weight class, if i plan to do a competition asap, i need to get to the next level of bodybuilding, which involves using steroids.

OK, Let me give you solid advice, since I been training more years than you are old. First of all, your 17 year old friend is an idiot. If you plan to do what every one advices you not too, dump the dbol, do 200mg of cyp or ethan once per week for 12 weeks and .5mg of arimidex every day. I still would advice you to hold off, you do got good stats for your age. DIET and hard work makes champions. Your health is worth more than a trophy! At 48, I have basically the same stats. You see, I lasted so far, because I Listen To solid advice.

 

[oldfella]

This might sound extreme but it fits. So some 16-19 year olds all take turns jumping in front of a Speeding train..............................does this mean you should follow suit? Does this mean they all will get the same result? as in does the train kill all of them or only some of them and are the ones that did not die better or worse off? Yep makes sense to me to follow the pack!!

 

[eroc613]

I agree with these guys, but I also look at all the young kids doing it. And their not all going to the hospital. Just be smart and realize it can effect you long term, meaning you may have to take it the rest of your life if your body decides to shut down your natural test production. I may not be medically nessecary, but if you want a good quiality of life you may have to.
I started in my 30's , but my training partner started when he was 20. (he's 5'9 225 at 8%bf) And he can be off for 6 months and his natural levels go back to normal. But everybody is different. Hell, my test levels won't go back to normal when I come off and I didn't start until I was 30
We know your going to do it, just don't over do it. And test only cycle would be great. Just don't do a D-bol only cycle. (harsh for your first time)

 

[Dubs]

I agree with these guys, but I also look at all the young kids doing it. And their not all going to the hospital. Just be smart and realize it can effect you long term, meaning you may have to take it the rest of your life if your body decides to shut down your natural test production. I may not be medically nessecary, but if you want a good quiality of life you may have to.
I started in my 30's , but my training partner started when he was 20. (he's 5'9 225 at 8%bf) And he can be off for 6 months and his natural levels go back to normal. But everybody is different. Hell, my test levels won't go back to normal when I come off and I didn't start until I was 30
We know your going to do it, just don't over do it. And test only cycle would be great. Just don't do a D-bol only cycle. (harsh for your first time)

Thanks man. I appreciate your outlook on it.
I think Ill stick to my original plan, with a bit lower dosages on the test and nolva.
my friend was doing something similar.
I'll be careful, and I appreciate all the input

 

[Dubs]

New Dosages...Thoughts?

Test prop
70 mgs monday, wednesday, friday.

Dianabol
20 mgs per day

Nolva (Throughout cycle)
20 mgs/day

Nolva (as PCT)
40 mgs per day week 1
20 mgs per day weeks 2-4

 

[ChuckLee]

That way you're giving two days without injections (weekend) for the blood to clear the prop...I'd rather go with EOD or even ED for that, or switch to Enth.

Take off Nolva during cycle. Get an AI to run with your gears, like Aromasin.

Good Luck.

 

[Dubs]

Thanks.

Thanks man.

What if i did test prop at 50 mgs on mon, wed, fri, and saturday?
Use armidex during cycle at .5 mgs/day
and keep other dosages the same?

 

[oldfella]

Thanks man.

What if i did test prop at 50 mgs on mon, wed, fri, and saturday?
Use armidex during cycle at .5 mgs/day
and keep other dosages the same?

prop should be run EOD or ED. Take your pick. 50mg ed or 100 eod. EOD means exactly that. M,W,F,SU, TU, TH, SA, etc...........................................................EOD does not mean skip two days, it does not mean twice on Sundays, it only means one thing!!!

 

[Dubs]

haha.

Okay, gottcha. I shall do 50 mgs EOD though.
M, W, F, S, T, Th, SA.
That would be 200 mgs per week, along with my dianabol.
does the nolva as pct, and adex look good?

 

[NuTsOe]

i hope you realize your first cycle is always your BEST do you really want to waste it on that cycle you posted? FOOD IS YOUR CHIEF ANABOLIC you want to grow just eat more....

 

[Dubs]

i hope you realize your first cycle is always your BEST do you really want to waste it on that cycle you posted? FOOD IS YOUR CHIEF ANABOLIC you want to grow just eat more....

Whats wrong with my cycle that i posted?

 

[supertrucker212]

What he's saying is that your money is better invested in food. You haven't posted your diet yet. I hope it's at least 300 grams of protein and 3500 cals. You have to decide if you want to start using gear or not, it's your body. I will say this, without the right amount of food the gear is useless! I too would not use D-Bol on the first cycle.