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High anabolic lower test in offseason

I tried to use indapamide 1.5mg a day - it is a light diuretic that does not save potassium but it gave practically nothing. Spironolactone at a dose of 25-50mg daily helps but it's a stronger diuretic and using it for a long time is certainly not very good.
I've got heart failure from my heart attack in 08 and was on spironolactone for many years. I'd still be on it but my blood pressure got too low. I had to decrease my ace inhibitor too. I never had any sides from spironolactone, but I dont remember the dose I used.

Some guys get gyno from spironolactone but I had no problem with it. I guess you did not either. The big one guys used in the past was lasix. My father used that back in the 70s and 80s to lower his bp until the doctor switched some meds. He had no issues. Sure he was on a proper dose.
 
Have you looked at lasix? Under a doctor's care I wouldn't be too concerned. Millions of people take it. The doses and diets of bodybuilders is what makes it dangerous. Do you know what doses a competitor would use before competition? You have probably heard about guys collapsing at contests.
 
Great physique my man. Another 6ft
guy here as well. And i can understand your discomfort when you are holding crazy water.
But if you are dieted down at 290, what weight are you getting up to in the offseason?
It caaant be 315. I mean Jordan is a dieted down what, 248?, and he's 280-290 this year in good condition.
You MUST be getting into the 330+ range right?

i'm 6ft and once i hit 300lbs im donezo. I feel heavy and bloated and watery as hell.

And like everyone said, just switch it up. I actually kept my androgen/anabolic dosage the same this year...much less water than just super high test. The good thing with your offseason is that if you find yourself NOT liking something, you have enough time to switch it up.
 
You look fantastic. It's good to see you posting. If anyone negatively comments about your doses (surprised they haven't yet) they need to fuck off. Some people on here (especially guys below 180 pounds) don't like people using large doses of AAS. Your cycle is standard for someone your size which you obviously already know. Although saying that I know the guys in Poland generally take a lot. Geno helps out a lot of Polish bodybuilders. Anyway your cycle looks good. You obviously must have experience so just experiment and see what you prefer and go from there.

I can't use high doses of eq but it's a good choice and I can see you getting great results. I know a few guys who have used eq as their main injectable in the 2-3 gram range. I personally feel shit on high test so I keep the dose usually no more than 750mg but even closer to 500mg most cycles. I don't use that high these days so I tend to just use moderate-low doses of multiple compounds. I have used high deca and low test before and preferred it to high test and low deca. Have you tried high deca yet? Something like you are doing but swop the eq for deca (and use primo instead of npp) could be good. Or even just 750mg deca, 750mg eq and 750mg test and 750mg primo. There are no wrong answers and any combo of hormones will do the job. What is your typical hgh and slin protocol when growing? As you know those 2 are what can really make the difference especially for someone your size who is already on a good dose of aas.
 
If anyone negatively comments about your doses (surprised they haven't yet) they need to fuck off. Some people on here (especially guys below 180 pounds) don't like people using large doses of AAS. Your cycle is standard for someone your size which you obviously already know.

They are almost always 200 pounds or less idd. This guy's doses are actually low for someone his size imo. 290 On stage is huge.
 
Makes for a refreshing change to see somebody of that level of development showing the dosages needed to reach that level. Instead of all the “I blast on 300mg test” shouts
 
Great physique my man. Another 6ft
guy here as well. And i can understand your discomfort when you are holding crazy water.
But if you are dieted down at 290, what weight are you getting up to in the offseason?
It caaant be 315. I mean Jordan is a dieted down what, 248?, and he's 280-290 this year in good condition.
You MUST be getting into the 330+ range right?

i'm 6ft and once i hit 300lbs im donezo. I feel heavy and bloated and watery as hell.

And like everyone said, just switch it up. I actually kept my androgen/anabolic dosage the same this year...much less water than just super high test. The good thing with your offseason is that if you find yourself NOT liking something, you have enough time to switch it up.

Thank you very much with good words - I weigh about 310 pounds in low season, I tried to keep very good condition out of season all the time so the weight difference is not great but this year I am going to exceed 330 pounds because I know that if I do not and I will not push above weight on offseason is a thread of growth and further development.

You say you have kept the androgen dose at the same level - so I understand that you have reduced the test and increased the anabolics above, I think it's a good idea you will have to try it.
 
I’m with Elvia, maybe rotate compounds like 750 test+400dhb+600eq for 8-10 weeks then run 750 test+500mg primo + 500npp
 
You look fantastic. It's good to see you posting. If anyone negatively comments about your doses (surprised they haven't yet) they need to fuck off. Some people on here (especially guys below 180 pounds) don't like people using large doses of AAS. Your cycle is standard for someone your size which you obviously already know. Although saying that I know the guys in Poland generally take a lot. Geno helps out a lot of Polish bodybuilders. Anyway your cycle looks good. You obviously must have experience so just experiment and see what you prefer and go from there.

I can't use high doses of eq but it's a good choice and I can see you getting great results. I know a few guys who have used eq as their main injectable in the 2-3 gram range. I personally feel shit on high test so I keep the dose usually no more than 750mg but even closer to 500mg most cycles. I don't use that high these days so I tend to just use moderate-low doses of multiple compounds. I have used high deca and low test before and preferred it to high test and low deca. Have you tried high deca yet? Something like you are doing but swop the eq for deca (and use primo instead of npp) could be good. Or even just 750mg deca, 750mg eq and 750mg test and 750mg primo. There are no wrong answers and any combo of hormones will do the job. What is your typical hgh and slin protocol when growing? As you know those 2 are what can really make the difference especially for someone your size who is already on a good dose of aas.

I really like nandrolones so I have also considered the option with high decks - I just have to try how it will work in practice

when it comes to gh and insulin, this is a typical offseason protocol

7.5-10iu gh - meal-15 minutes after a meal 10-15iu humalogu or novorapid
workout after 90 min after a meal - during training 30g eaa, creatine, glutamine, 40-50g dextrosis
after training (calmly when I get home or after 30 minutes) 7.5-10iu gh + 10-15iu humalogu or novorapid

This is more or less what it looks like, personally I don't use a lot of insulin but I have a lot of people who use it after 40-50 before and after training
 
They are almost always 200 pounds or less idd. This guy's doses are actually low for someone his size imo. 290 On stage is huge.

I will honestly say that I am amused by the current "fashion" for chasing who takes less, I personally know guests from, for example, UK names I will not exchange but I know from personal disagreements that the doses they give officially on forums are usually less than 1/2 of what they are flying in reality.

Personally, I am a prep couch and I have a lot of players, including one whom I got to get a pro card and even though the boy has mega genetics and predispositions for bodybuilding, to get the card he had to push the dose to the level of 3.5g and 10iu gh, and to to develop further it is known that needs more. I am not saying that there are no freaks who develop on pro at relatively small doses but not on 500 test and 400 deka heheheheh just 3-3.5g this is a marked dosage.

Many trainers are now propagating supposedly small doses to attract customers, because once - most would not use the potential of high doses because they can not hold the regime and train hard and only destroy their health. Secondly - most are afraid when they see doses in grams and will not go to someone who has the opinion that he writes a lot.

I will give for example the cycle of my client which we are preparing for new york pro 2021 that is for a year, currently he is at offseason

1250 mg test E week
1250mg Eq week
700mg npp week
15iu gh ed
10-12iu humalog pre and post workout

test and EQ are the base they fly all the time - npp, anadrol, turanabol and tren are thrown in periodically, when we do blast we add one of these 4 agents, and "crusie" is the base from test and EQ which will increase with dry weight over time it will also be slowly ramped up
 
I will honestly say that I am amused by the current "fashion" for chasing who takes less, I personally know guests from, for example, UK names I will not exchange but I know from personal disagreements that the doses they give officially on forums are usually less than 1/2 of what they are flying in reality.

Personally, I am a prep couch and I have a lot of players, including one whom I got to get a pro card and even though the boy has mega genetics and predispositions for bodybuilding, to get the card he had to push the dose to the level of 3.5g and 10iu gh, and to to develop further it is known that needs more. I am not saying that there are no freaks who develop on pro at relatively small doses but not on 500 test and 400 deka heheheheh just 3-3.5g this is a marked dosage.


I'm glad someone else is saying this. I think most of the INFORMED BBer crowd knows that you need high dosages to get to that size. I'm in Southern California at lots of the big BBing gyms down here and know my fair share of pros and high level amateurs. A handful of them have told me their "real dosage" and it's just as high. If you want to walk around at over 250lbs at 5% you need to be pushing your body hard. High drugs, high GH and insulin. It's just how it is. Do I believe that their are true genetic freaks who don't need to do that? Yes...but those poeple dont choose bodybuilding anymore. Those guys go play in the NFL. Bodybuilding is no ones first choice anymore, way more options. And with that, we will get average Joe's who will just work harder than you, for longer and push their bodies further. That's how it works.

As for the cycle dude, I did a 1g Test + 1g Deca for the first part of my offseason and liked it muuuch more than 1-2g of Test + 600 Deca.
The biggest amateur i know here rotates between 1g Test + 1g Deca then switches tren in and deca out. Sometimes EQ the whole way thru too.
I would honestly just have your MAXIMUM dose of test be 800mg - 1g and push the other stuff up higher.
 
I agree with all the posts that have come after mine. There was probably no need for me to write what I did as no one had mentioned it but guys know what it is like on here and well all over. Most wouldn't bother disclosing anyway but I know some who don't post their real doses because they just can't be bothered justifying themselves to all the 180 pound guys who usually don't even like bodybuilding. It's not about glorifying high doses it's simply about posting the truth of what goes on everywhere and this forum was created for that very reason. There will always be idiots who copy crazy cycles but at the same time it's ridiculous some of the things I hear these days. Guys doing podcasts about bringing the truth about pro bodybuilding to people and then they act like 3 adrol per day is totally crazy and should never be tried :eek: I have 101 examples but no point. There will always be a massive spectrum of doses but as mentioned the doses discussed on this thread are very common. We help out guys who weigh nowhere as much as the OP does on stage and they are using the same amounts (some less and some more).

Luki you obviously know what you are doing. I think many overcomplicate hormones but at your level you obviously want to be optimizing everything. There is no one size fits all so it's a case of experimenting and learning what your body responds best to and going from there. There are no wrong answers and it's impossible to give you the best one without seeing how you get on with each protocol. You are obviously doing something right so why not experiment with what you have proposed in this thread just to see if there is a difference. I know many people who have pretty much tried everything and I constantly experiment on myself as well. I will state I can see using a more balanced approach suiting you. Although your body may love deca or eq so mega dosing it with smaller doses of other compounds could be great for you. My 750mg of each compound (or something similar) should be great though. Just obviously start lower and build up to those doses. The key is just knowing how each compound treats you at various doses then you can put them together to hopefully create a stack that is excellent for muscle building and well being (within reason) but carries minimal side effects.

Luki when do you plan to start this cycle? Do you think you will stick with your original idea/doses or change things?
 
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I think most of the INFORMED BBer crowd knows that you need high dosages to get to that size. I'm in Southern California at lots of the big BBing gyms down here and know my fair share of pros and high level amateurs. A handful of them have told me their "real dosage" and it's just as high. If you want to walk around at over 250lbs at 5% you need to be pushing your body hard. High drugs, high GH and insulin. It's just how it is. Do I believe that their are true genetic freaks who don't need to do that? Yes...but those poeple dont choose bodybuilding anymore. Those guys go play in the NFL. Bodybuilding is no ones first choice anymore, way more options. And with that, we will get average Joe's who will just work harder than you, for longer and push their bodies further. That's how it works.

As for the cycle dude, I did a 1g Test + 1g Deca for the first part of my offseason and liked it muuuch more than 1-2g of Test + 600 Deca.
The biggest amateur i know here rotates between 1g Test + 1g Deca then switches tren in and deca out. Sometimes EQ the whole way thru too.
I would honestly just have your MAXIMUM dose of test be 800mg - 1g and push the other stuff up higher.

Completely agreed on everything, especially the part about keeping the test at around 1G (I've also found about that to be the sweet spot, for me it's 900 mg) and adding in other compounds instead of just going crazy high test. It just doesn't work that well as stacking does.
 
I have used high deca and low test before and preferred it to high test and low deca. Have you tried high deca yet? Something like you are doing but swop the eq for deca (and use primo instead of npp) could be good.


what deca dose to test dose did you do?

I did 100 mgs test and 200 deca and sex drive went down . Ive tried 600 mgs deca, 150 mgs test and 150 eq-sex drive flew away.

I am concerned about my hair and on deca can not use finasteride so use lower dose of test or lower androgens. Tried 125 mgs test and 125 deca, 25 masteron to see if this works better
 
I know it can be dangerous, but ever have someone guide you with a low dose diuretic? I've never messed with them and you have to worry about electrolytes, but low dose is of course safer. What's your blood pressure? If you have a good doctor that is willing to work with you then maybe he can prescribe and monitor. Water retention of course can lead to high blood pressure and cardiomyopathy.

Oh, congrats on a great physique. Being over 6 foot is a bitch in bodybuilding!
Isn't there one called diazide, I heard it's pretty safe as it doesn't mess with potassium levels , now those loop diuretics are very dangerous
 
Luki, what has been your plan with regards to cruising dosage to maintain that size?
 
Luki, what has been your plan with regards to cruising dosage to maintain that size?

To be honest I do not personally do the typical "cruise" and certainly not as described by some guys brewing for 290-300 and more pounds that supposedly go down on 200-300mg of testosterone weekly hehehe - at such a dose there is simply no szns maintain such muscle mass, such stories can be told goodnight to children. If I use 4g in blast, then my crus is 2-2.5g and it also doesn't last long, say 8-10 weeks blast 4 weeks crusie. It's not just my practice, personally I don't know guys who would come down to such low doses and make progress. Fact, some do, but they are the guys who usually already have size so at offseason they don't grow, they just go down in size and blas run 16-20 weeks before the start and then there is the famous "grow in to a show" but if not yet it has size and you want to get it, there is no other option and most of the year you have to be on high doses.
 
If you get labs, what does your cbc and cholesterol look like at those doses? How do you personally feel while running that amount?



To be honest I do not personally do the typical "cruise" and certainly not as described by some guys brewing for 290-300 and more pounds that supposedly go down on 200-300mg of testosterone weekly hehehe - at such a dose there is simply no szns maintain such muscle mass, such stories can be told goodnight to children. If I use 4g in blast, then my crus is 2-2.5g and it also doesn't last long, say 8-10 weeks blast 4 weeks crusie. It's not just my practice, personally I don't know guys who would come down to such low doses and make progress. Fact, some do, but they are the guys who usually already have size so at offseason they don't grow, they just go down in size and blas run 16-20 weeks before the start and then there is the famous "grow in to a show" but if not yet it has size and you want to get it, there is no other option and most of the year you have to be on high doses.
 
It is refreshing to see such honesty. The big concern with your approach is health. How long have you been using those doses and how old are you now?

You have certainly taken your physique to a high level. How has progress been the last couple of years?
 

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