High anabolic lower test in offseason

MyNameIsJeff · Feb 8, 2020

Numerous studies show that that dose of Letro completely wipes out aromatase. And plenty of people here and on other forums have reported that they tanked their estrogen with much lower dosages than that.

I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say though. Are you trying to say that the Letro did not lower Estrogen enough? If so, your shit is bunk. Nothing wrong with Letro as a compound either way.

NattyNuts · Feb 8, 2020

He said it was too potent and he'll be trying aromasin because of that. This is what I understood

luki7788 · Feb 8, 2020

MyNameIsJeff said:
Numerous studies show that that dose of Letro completely wipes out aromatase. And plenty of people here and on other forums have reported that they tanked their estrogen with much lower dosages than that.

I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say though. Are you trying to say that the Letro did not lower Estrogen enough? If so, your shit is bunk. Nothing wrong with Letro as a compound either way.

Friend research studies and life and practice of connections is something else - after all, since you are so guided by research, you should know that IAs work up to 50% on men than women

MyNameIsJeff · Feb 8, 2020

luki7788 said:
Friend research studies and life and practice of connections is something else - after all, since you are so guided by research, you should know that IAs work up to 50% on men than women

Another sentence that doesn't make sense, but I assume you mean to say that AIs are less effective in men than in (postmenopausal) women. This, however, is not the case when a man's HPTA is shut down (true for basically every enhanced bodybuilder) so that almost all estrogen comes from aromatization.

I'm just tired of people shitting on Letrozole when the real problem is them simply overdosing it. It's an excellent AI and you can achieve any desired estrogen level if you dose it correctly. Just like with the other AIs.

luki7788 · Feb 8, 2020

MyNameIsJeff said:
Another sentence that doesn't make sense, but I assume you mean to say that AIs are less effective in men than in (postmenopausal) women. This, however, is not the case when a man's HPTA is shut down (true for basically every enhanced bodybuilder) so that almost all estrogen comes from aromatization.

I'm just tired of people shitting on Letrozole when the real problem is them simply overdosing it. It's an excellent AI and you can achieve any desired estrogen level if you dose it correctly. Just like with the other AIs.

But where did I write that letrozole is bad? I wrote that this season I'm going to take another approach to aromasin due to the fact that it is "healthier" for lipids than letro or adex

MyNameIsJeff · Feb 8, 2020

That's not what you said earlier:

luki7788 said:
This year I will take one more approach to aromasin as an IA because I recently found myself lousy with low concentration because it did not work practically at all, I used letro

I assume what you were trying to say there is that you Letro crashed your Estrogen. But it's obviously terrible English, and you have contradicted yourself multiple times in this thread. I also disagree with your new line about letro being worse for lipids.

hawkmoon · Feb 9, 2020

Interesting thread...I will perhaps be the lonely voice in the crowd however and say IMO there are plenty of very big people running much lower doses than suspected.
My own personal experience (for what that's worth) tells me higher doses do not bring superior results remotely proportionate to the increased hormones. For me the difference between 6-800mg and 2g is worth maybe 5lbs at the same body-weight, heavily favoring anabolics these days.

A long time ago I didn't log things with precision and got somewhat caught up in the more=more mindset, but now looking back - with records - I do not see much evidence that higher doses are required. Again, this is only my experience and as there is not real research on this, personal anecdotes are all we have.

hawkmoon · Feb 9, 2020

hawkmoon said:
Interesting thread...I will perhaps be the lonely voice in the crowd however and say IMO there are plenty of very big people running much lower doses than suspected.
My own personal experience (for what that's worth) tells me higher doses do not bring superior results remotely proportionate to the increased hormones. For me the difference between 6-800mg and 2g is worth maybe 5lbs at the same body-weight, heavily favoring anabolics these days.

A long time ago I didn't log things with precision and got somewhat caught up in the more=more mindset, but now looking back - with records - I do not see much evidence that higher doses are required. Again, this is only my experience and as there is not real research on this, personal anecdotes are all we have.

Sorry I meant to say same body-comp above

jeroendebleser · Feb 9, 2020

hawkmoon said:
Interesting thread...I will perhaps be the lonely voice in the crowd however and say IMO there are plenty of very big people running much lower doses than suspected.
My own personal experience (for what that's worth) tells me higher doses do not bring superior results remotely proportionate to the increased hormones. For me the difference between 6-800mg and 2g is worth maybe 5lbs at the same body-weight, heavily favoring anabolics these days.

A long time ago I didn't log things with precision and got somewhat caught up in the more=more mindset, but now looking back - with records - I do not see much evidence that higher doses are required. Again, this is only my experience and as there is not real research on this, personal anecdotes are all we have.

There is a very big drop off point with escalating dosages, that's a fact.

LATS · Feb 9, 2020

hawkmoon said:
Interesting thread...I will perhaps be the lonely voice in the crowd however and say IMO there are plenty of very big people running much lower doses than suspected.
My own personal experience (for what that's worth) tells me higher doses do not bring superior results remotely proportionate to the increased hormones. For me the difference between 6-800mg and 2g is worth maybe 5lbs at the same body-weight, heavily favoring anabolics these days.

A long time ago I didn't log things with precision and got somewhat caught up in the more=more mindset, but now looking back - with records - I do not see much evidence that higher doses are required. Again, this is only my experience and as there is not real research on this, personal anecdotes are all we have.

Yes..and you will find many lower their dose with better results in time.. they find what compounds work best for them.. what ones give a better results to side effect ratio.. and many find other things work better for them than anabolics.. there is a reason why we are finding many pros doing just test with gh and slin off season.. and still gaining..
As I said test over 300 mgs for me just mean more AI and sides.. not worth it.. but I can add primo to that and feel great and still gain good amount of tissue.. or oral turinabol.. again feel great and gain.. dont want bloat.. water weight and a ton of extra compounds ds to battle sides these days.. not worth it

madg · Feb 9, 2020

LATS said:
Yes..and you will find many lower their dose with better results in time.. they find what compounds work best for them.. what ones give a better results to side effect ratio.. and many find other things work better for them than anabolics.. there is a reason why we are finding many pros doing just test with gh and slin off season.. and still gaining..
As I said test over 300 mgs for me just mean more AI and sides.. not worth it.. but I can add primo to that and feel great and still gain good amount of tissue.. or oral turinabol.. again feel great and gain.. dont want bloat.. water weight and a ton of extra compounds ds to battle sides these days.. not worth it

What this gentleman said !

Agree 1000000%

I hate the bloat too and i hate taking drugs to counter sides of other drugs

joos23 · Feb 9, 2020

LATS said:
Yes..and you will find many lower their dose with better results in time.. they find what compounds work best for them.. what ones give a better results to side effect ratio.. and many find other things work better for them than anabolics.. there is a reason why we are finding many pros doing just test with gh and slin off season.. and still gaining..
As I said test over 300 mgs for me just mean more AI and sides.. not worth it.. but I can add primo to that and feel great and still gain good amount of tissue.. or oral turinabol.. again feel great and gain.. dont want bloat.. water weight and a ton of extra compounds ds to battle sides these days.. not worth it

You dont need an AI at 300mg?

TheOtherOne55 · Feb 9, 2020

I can completely agree with both of you to a point.
And you're right, up to a certain point, adding another 1g of shit aint going to do a damn thing AND is going to kill your insides.
For the most part, everyone on here is smarter than the average gym rat and realizes the downsides of blasting like 5g like an idiot.

I DO think that there is a difference between the top 5% and the top 1% though. If you want to be a jacked dude—220-265 at around 8%—yeah. I am 1000% positive that you can keep stuff lower and grow fine. MOST of this forum is filled with guys like this. Big as hell compared to the normal population, everyone knows you lift, you look like it. But then there is the 1%...the 275-320 at 8% guys. The national-level SHW/IFBB pro size guy, like the OP. Literally, largest person you've seen in person type BBer. If one of us wants to be THAT GUY, i do think guys need to push high dosage stuff. Those guys aren't getting to that size without pushing the limits. Can they hold some of that size on lower dosages? Kinda Dusty-like? Yep. But to get there, it's a bitch and it's a bitch with food, rest, weights AND dosages.

LATS said:
Yes..and you will find many lower their dose with better results in time.. they find what compounds work best for them.. what ones give a better results to side effect ratio.. and many find other things work better for them than anabolics.. there is a reason why we are finding many pros doing just test with gh and slin off season.. and still gaining..
As I said test over 300 mgs for me just mean more AI and sides.. not worth it.. but I can add primo to that and feel great and still gain good amount of tissue.. or oral turinabol.. again feel great and gain.. dont want bloat.. water weight and a ton of extra compounds ds to battle sides these days.. not worth it

hawkmoon said:
Interesting thread...I will perhaps be the lonely voice in the crowd however and say IMO there are plenty of very big people running much lower doses than suspected.
My own personal experience (for what that's worth) tells me higher doses do not bring superior results remotely proportionate to the increased hormones. For me the difference between 6-800mg and 2g is worth maybe 5lbs at the same body-weight, heavily favoring anabolics these days.

A long time ago I didn't log things with precision and got somewhat caught up in the more=more mindset, but now looking back - with records - I do not see much evidence that higher doses are required. Again, this is only my experience and as there is not real research on this, personal anecdotes are all we have.

maldorf · Feb 9, 2020

I think some guys at the top can grow on less, but they are in the minority. These are the guys in high school that can bench 405 at the age of 18, been lifting for a year or two.

The OP has already stated that naturally he was tall and slim. I was like that too. It's going to take high doses to change your "phenotype" from ectomorph to mesomorph. I'm a bit surprised at how the body never really reverts back to how it was before use and before bodybuilding in general. Some of the changes become permanent and dont go away when the stimulus is removed.

chopsuey · Feb 9, 2020

One thing might be worth considering is the synergy with GH(regarding pushing the higher doses of androgens).

High doses on their own obviously work to a certain point but it seems when you combine high dose GH + high dose gear it becomes much more effective, plus you can eat more(crucial factor here) without as fat off season. With the above I've personally seen the more the better for the most part.

Genetic response plays a huge role too, never responded all that well to gear by itself, I've taken a shit load before but now more into health, currently cutting on 200mg test/hcg/5iu gh and will bump in a month or two the GH to 7.5 + low dose trestolone(200mg) for summer , which is nothing compared to before and I'm sure that will work great BUT if I was competing in open I know I would need to run a shit ton more than that to be competitive.

DrBeefcake777 · Feb 9, 2020

luki7788 said:
As I wrote in the first post - an additional retention of 10-15 pounds of fluid on a high test becomes uncomfortable and very much above 300 pounds, I am looking for alternatives.

I add current photos, I am just 5 weeks before the first start of the season, weight 293 pounds on an empty stomach

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You making breakfast bro? Because youre fuggin yolked! You look good man. Thats hard work and genetics right there.

LATS · Feb 10, 2020

joos23 said:
You dont need an AI at 300mg?

Most of the time no.. I do run proviron daily at 50mgs.. although no as effective as a AI in regards to estro it is still effective keeping sides at bay while giving me a better libido and sexual function.. I do keep AI on hand to be safe

Landmonster · Feb 22, 2020

Awesome thread, Luki!

2 questions:

You mentioned that you don't like Aromasin. Can you share what dose you tried Aromasin at, and what other AAS you were running with it? In other words, what amount of testosterone or steroids did you feel it could not control?
You also mentioned that you really liked to a lot of health supplements. Can you share your favorites, and most effective ones? It seems that of the biggest challenges (aside from cost) from running high doses, is controlling the health side effects!