High carb VS high protein

[Optimo Pharma]

Question for you all. There has been recent talk that if you eat 100 G of protein and high carb will build more muscle. Rather than 100 G of carb and high protein. What do we think about this? High protein or high carb?

 

[Virtues]

Protein builds muscle and carbs fuel training.
Get enough protein first, then add carbs to improve performance and growth.
High carbs cannot replace low protein.

 

[Optimo Pharma]

I would agree. It was wild to me that that was even a debate I saw recently

 

[Splitzz]

Don’t believe all the BS on social media. Unless any studies have been performed is just talk.

 

[Optimo Pharma]

I didn’t believe it just wanted to share it here cuz it seemed crazy to me

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

Rather than 100 G of carb and high protein. What do we think about this? High protein or high carb?

^^^hey brother ..anybody that's been doing this for any amount of real time already knows the answer to this ..very well
..how?
..bc we'v tried it .....& the results speak clearly


→it's is not an "either ..or" situation
..there's a balance for "best" results

►carbohydrates spare protein
..adequate protein without adequate corresponding carbs
..causes the protein to be burned for fuel ..as needed ..instead of being used to build structure


►CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING;
Skeletal muscle is composed of approximately 70-75% water & 18-23% protein, making it a highly hydrated, protein-rich tissue. The remaining 1–7% consists of fats, glycogen, and minerals. Water acts as a solvent for metabolic processes, while proteins like actin and myosin are essential for muscle structure and contraction

-Water (70-75%): Essential for transporting nutrients, maintaining cellular volume, and facilitating muscle contraction
-Protein (18-23%): The structural component responsible for muscle strength, contraction, and rebuilding
-Other Components: Small amounts of fat (lipids), glycogen (energy storage), and minerals (calcium, magnesium, potassium) are present
-Structure: Muscle fibers operate like "active sponges," where water-filled networks contain contractile proteins

►adequate hydration is critical for protein synthesis and preventing muscle breakdown
^^^why does this matter here?
..bc;
-carbohydrates are stored as glycogen in muscles ..& the liver
-each gram of glycogen binds 3-4grams of water
-so when you eat carbs ..your body stores more water along with them

​

→IMO; though protein is essential ..adequate carbohydrates are indispensable for making efficient use of protein intake
..in other words; adequate carbohydrate allows you to make much better use of any protein intake ..& amplifies results
..so tho carbs don’t build muscle directly ..they;
-fuel hard workouts
-refill glycogen
-spare/reduce muscle breakdown
-increase insulin ←this is very beneficial in this scope/goal


***LONG STORY SHORT;
..low carbs + high protein = shitty workouts & "lagging" gains


.

 

[Optimo Pharma]

I couldn’t agree more. I’m just shocked it’s even a conversation that’s happening.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Figure out your protein target (200g? 300g?) and then calories (deficit or surplus)

Then food preferences; if you're goal is bodybuilding, it's gonna be skewed toward higher carb

If it's not based around stuff you like to eat, or moderately modified from that, might not work so well long-term

Also note: bodybuilding diets tend to be repetitive & boring; that's OK depending on your goals

 

[buck]

Seems most studies in the past figuring out nitrogen retention were not done the best. Mostly it seems they have people pee in a bottle, analyzed the amount of nitrogen excreted then formed their opinion as to how much nitrogen is needed for growth. But nitrogen is also excreted through sweat, pooping etc. When i started lifting i figured out what i thought was optimal from my reading. After a time i added more protein and grew better. And did that till it seemed that i had hit my threshold. I adjusted my other macro to see how things went as well. I changed one thing at a time and tried it for a few months to see how things went. It is not like i was going to shrink any doing it this way.

 

[Optimo Pharma]

Good way to go about it

 

[drafty_c]

High carb is usually better for mass because it fuels your actual workouts. Protein is just the building blocks, but carbs are the energy that lets you push heavy enough weight to trigger growth anyway. 100g of protein is a bit low for most guys, but the surplus from carbs definitely helps with recovery.

 

[Flocci]

Question for you all. There has been recent talk that if you eat 100 G of protein and high carb will build more muscle. Rather than 100 G of carb and high protein. What do we think about this? High protein or high carb?

what is the question here?

you need enough protein 2-3g/kg and enough carbs to fuel performance and recovery.

100g in a sitting? pr day? what is the situation we are talking about here.

 

[AlexDavis43]

High carb is usually better for mass because it fuels your actual workouts. Protein is just the building blocks, but carbs are the energy that lets you push heavy enough weight to trigger growth anyway. 100g of protein is a bit low for most guys, but the surplus from carbs definitely helps with recovery.

what is the question here?

you need enough protein 2-3g/kg and enough carbs to fuel performance and recovery.

100g in a sitting? pr day? what is the situation we are talking about here.

100 grams of protein in one sitting reminds of people who do one-meal-a-day dieting

Imo terrible way of eating for bodybuilding for many reasons: how you gonna hit your protein target? 100 grams is well into diminishing returns territory, where less and less is used for muscle protein synthesis the higher you go (although some people who do this say it's easier for them to lose weight that way)

I don't get 3 g/kg but 4 meals with 50 grams each has been working pretty well

 

[Flocci]

how you gonna hit your protein target? 100 grams is well into diminishing returns territory, where less and less is used for muscle protein synthesis the higher you go (although some people who do this say it's easier for them to lose weight that way)

I don't get 3 g/kg but 4 meals with 50 grams each has been working pretty well

its not that hard to get 200g protein in one sitting if you compose the meal well, atleast from a theoreticall POV.

afaik there is not a significant diminished return in one sitting that we know of like you are suggesting, you'll just keep digesting and having amino acids trickling into your system over a longer period of time when you have a big feeding at once when its <100g, atleast for the next 12 hours using milk protein. There was that study by jorn trommelen with 100g protein vs 25g that tested this.


you can check out more about it here:

rommelen (2023) Study: 25g vs 100g Protein Post-Exercise​

Full reference: Trommelen J, et al. Cell Reports Medicine. 2023 Dec 19;4(12):101324 .

---

Experimental Design​

Participants: Recreationally active young men (18-40 years) .

Protocol:

• Subjects performed a whole-body resistance exercise session
• Consumed either 25g or 100g of milk protein (80% casein/20% whey) post-workout
• Researchers tracked protein metabolism for 12 hours using a quadruple isotope tracer method
• This technique allowed them to distinguish ingested protein from the body's existing proteins and track exactly where amino acids went

Why this matters: Previous studies only measured 4-6 hours, missing what happens with larger meals .

---

Pharmacokinetics: What the Body Did With the Protein​

Parameter	25g Condition	100g Condition
Digestion/absorption duration	Complete by ~6 hours	Still ongoing at 12 hours (study endpoint)
Plasma amino acid pattern	Rapid peak, sharp decline	Moderate, sustained elevation for 12+ hours
Dietary amino acid incorporation into muscle	Dose-response increase	Significantly higher incorporation

The gut released the 100g meal slowly over time, creating a prolonged "fed state" rather than a transient spike .

---

Pharmacodynamics: What the Protein Did to the Body​

1. Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS) Rates

• 25g: MPS elevated for ~6 hours, then returned to baseline
• 100g: MPS remained elevated for the entire 12-hour observation period
• Total MPS over 12 hours: 100g group showed 30% higher MPS compared to 25g group

The anabolic response was not just larger in magnitude but prolonged in duration .

2. Whole-Body Protein Breakdown

• Protein ingestion had a negligible impact on protein breakdown rates in both conditions
• The improved net protein balance came primarily from increased synthesis, not decreased breakdown

3. Amino Acid Oxidation ("Wasting")

• For every gram of protein consumed above 25g, less than 15% was oxidized
• This means over 85% of the "extra" 75g was retained by the body for anabolic purposes
• The increase in oxidation was minimal despite quadrupling the dose

4. Protein Synthesis in Different Tissues

The 100g dose increased synthesis rates in multiple protein fractions :

• Mixed muscle protein
• Myofibrillar protein (contractile elements)
• Muscle connective tissue protein
• Plasma protein

---

Key Findings Summary​

Finding	Evidence
No upper limit detected	Dose-response relationship continued up to 100g; saturation was not observed
Prolonged effect	100g extended the anabolic window beyond 12 hours
Minimal oxidation	<15% of "excess" amino acids were oxidized; >85% retained
Breakdown unaffected	Protein ingestion didn't suppress breakdown; synthesis drove the response
Total MPS advantage	100g produced 30% more MPS over 12 hours than 25g

---

What This Means​

1. The "Protein Ceiling" Concept Is Flawed

The long-held belief that the body caps protein utilization at 20-40g per meal was based on studies that stopped measuring too early . When you track for 12 hours, the body continues using protein from a larger meal .

2. The Body Prioritizes Conservation Over Waste

The minimal oxidation increase with 100g demonstrates that the body's default setting is to retain and utilize amino acids, not dump them . Over 85% of additional protein was kept for building tissue .

3. Duration Is the Key Variable

The main difference between conditions wasn't just how much muscle was built early on, but how long the building process remained active . The 100g meal covered a much longer window between meals .

4. Total Daily Protein > Meal Frequency

How you distribute protein throughout the day matters less than hitting your total daily target . Large, infrequent meals work fine.

---

Study Limitations​

• Population: Young, recreationally active men; results may differ for women, older adults, or elite athletes
• Acute design: Measured one meal over 12 hours; long-term studies needed to confirm chronic effects
• Protein source: Milk protein (80% casein) digests slowly; faster proteins like pure whey might behave differently
• Dose ceiling unknown: 100g didn't saturate the response; higher doses might show further effects

---

Practical Implications​

• For bodybuilders: Stop stressing about 30-40g limits. Hit your daily total and train hard.
• For OMAD: One massive protein feed works. Your body will spread utilization over 12+ hours.
• For pre-bed meals: A large dose before sleep covers the entire overnight fast .
• For meal frequency: If you prefer 2-3 big meals instead of 6 small ones, you're not leaving gains on the table.

---

Bottom Line: The body can effectively use 100g of protein in one meal. It's not wasted. It just takes longer to digest, and muscle building stays elevated for 12+ hours. Total daily intake is what matters most

 

[buck]

What can be used and what can be used the most optimally do not have to be the same thing. I have my opinion others will have theirs

 

[madg]

Muscle is 75% water and prefered fuel for muscular contractions is glycogen

So….

 

[Optimo Pharma]

what is the question here?

you need enough protein 2-3g/kg and enough carbs to fuel performance and recovery.

100g in a sitting? pr day? what is the situation we are talking about here.

My question really was just what is your take on the topic. I’m interested in everyone’s opinion. And I believe the original post I saw said 100g a day

 

[buck]

Muscle is only made from aminos which can also be used to make glycogen
so......!