High Hgb and Rbc on TRT..Need advice Please

[maldorf]

Oh and dad was never tested for these gene mutations

Have to wonder what caused his clot. Is he now on coumadin like me?

 

[fryzway]

I read over Maldorf thread and a few others and now have a few more questions. Seeing how my Hdl is 27 I was wondering if my daily Aromasin dose is the leading cause, if so could I have just as much E2 suppression on Nolvadex at 10-20mg/day ? I want to try the reg Niacin to help but don't know what dose to use to help bring up my Hdl. I will use the reg Niacin, not the Flush Free. I also wanted to mention I also wear a CPAP for my sleep apnea which they said if I lost just 10lbs it would go away bc it is so mild. I will be talking with my psychiatrist Mon morning to see if the baby aspirin would be ok to use daily with my Depakote b everything I found on it says u have to use large amounts to make the Depakote more toxic.

 

[maldorf]

I read over Maldorf thread and a few others and now have a few more questions. Seeing how my Hdl is 27 I was wondering if my daily Aromasin dose is the leading cause, if so could I have just as much E2 suppression on Nolvadex at 10-20mg/day ? I want to try the reg Niacin to help but don't know what dose to use to help bring up my Hdl. I will use the reg Niacin, not the Flush Free. I also wanted to mention I also wear a CPAP for my sleep apnea which they said if I lost just 10lbs it would go away bc it is so mild. I will be talking with my psychiatrist Mon morning to see if the baby aspirin would be ok to use daily with my Depakote b everything I found on it says u have to use large amounts to make the Depakote more toxic.

All you need is the baby aspirin once a day. Yeah, I think the Aromasin is bringing down the HDL. Take 1000 mg/day of the niacin. I take the script Niaspan because it is time released and works very welll and is potent. It brought up my HDL. If I were you I would see about getting a script for that. I take 1000 mg/day at night in one tab.

 

[fryzway]

Yes Maldorf he's on Coumadin and Lovinox daily I believe. The doctors believe that his yes of drug abuse and Uncontrolled diabetes is propably what lead to his vascular disease, which in turn caused neuropathy and plaque build up which limited blood flow and then he started throwing clots. He smoked like a frait train and still does. It doesn't however, explain his Hypercoagulated state, in my opinion. My doc hold me to just buy Niacin OTC and use it so I doubt he'll prescribe anything. He told me I'm to young to go on cholesterol Meds bc it could prob be Control with diet, exercise, weight loss and niacin until the weight loss gets to be enough. Should I take the 1,000mg dose all at once or break it up ? After learning all this and reason terrible horror stories on here, I'm contemplating stopping Trt all together. Just doing Nolvadex @ 30,20,20,10 and doing labs in 3 months but I'm afraid it won't bring my T back upand I'll have to ride the hormone roller coaster all over again. I have never looked better in my life than I do now but the anxiety over the possibilities of what the Trt may do is honestly becoming a bit overwhelming. Will the baby aspirin also help to lower my Bp ? It's been in the 140/85 range the past few days but I'm on Methyprednisone and an antibiotic for a tooth infection.

 

[maldorf]

Yes Maldorf he's on Coumadin and Lovinox daily I believe. The doctors believe that his yes of drug abuse and Uncontrolled diabetes is propably what lead to his vascular disease, which in turn caused neuropathy and plaque build up which limited blood flow and then he started throwing clots. He smoked like a frait train and still does. It doesn't however, explain his Hypercoagulated state, in my opinion. My doc hold me to just buy Niacin OTC and use it so I doubt he'll prescribe anything. He told me I'm to young to go on cholesterol Meds bc it could prob be Control with diet, exercise, weight loss and niacin until the weight loss gets to be enough. Should I take the 1,000mg dose all at once or break it up ? After learning all this and reason terrible horror stories on here, I'm contemplating stopping Trt all together. Just doing Nolvadex @ 30,20,20,10 and doing labs in 3 months but I'm afraid it won't bring my T back upand I'll have to ride the hormone roller coaster all over again. I have never looked better in my life than I do now but the anxiety over the possibilities of what the Trt may do is honestly becoming a bit overwhelming. Will the baby aspirin also help to lower my Bp ? It's been in the 140/85 range the past few days but I'm on Methyprednisone and an antibiotic for a tooth infection.

Aspirin does nothing for bp, youll need something like a ace inhibitor(lisinopril) for that.

Well, since the Niacin probably wont be timed release, I would take it at least 2x per day I guess. I dont know what the half life is like. Aim for 1000 mg/day. So you could take a 500mg tab in the morning after you get up and then 500 mg at bed time.l

 

[718si]

Aspirin does nothing for bp, youll need something like a ace inhibitor(lisinopril) for that.

Well, since the Niacin probably wont be timed release, I would take it at least 2x per day I guess. I dont know what the half life is like. Aim for 1000 mg/day. So you could take a 500mg tab in the morning after you get up and then 500 mg at bed time.l

For BP you can try hawthorn berry or celery seed, or low doses cialis... Also, watching experience essential sodium & ensuring adequate water consumption should help.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk

 

[fryzway]

Ok, I'm picking up the Niacin today and I'll run it 500/am & 500/pm. I have a ton of Celery seed Extract here at home 85% 3NB but I havent taken it do to trying to stay more hydrated and it has a diuretic effect and approach to lowering bp. I also thought it helps thin the blood so wouldn't it be overkill with that and the baby aspirin and wouldn't the diuretic effect Maybe drive up my Rbc and Hgb more or cause it to stay elevated at the very least ?

 

[maldorf]

Ok, I'm picking up the Niacin today and I'll run it 500/am & 500/pm. I have a ton of Celery seed Extract here at home 85% 3NB but I havent taken it do to trying to stay more hydrated and it has a diuretic effect and approach to lowering bp. I also thought it helps thin the blood so wouldn't it be overkill with that and the baby aspirin and wouldn't the diuretic effect Maybe drive up my Rbc and Hgb more or cause it to stay elevated at the very least ?

I doubt the diuretic effect would be great enough using that natural suplement to cause you any problems, and your hematocrit really isnt god aweful now anyhow. If your BP is consistently 140/85 or more then I would see a doc and get on a script, but it sounds like yours is usually normal. Not really much for you to worry about now, but its a good idea to keep an eye on things with your family history. You have to wonder about what genes you might be carrying considering your Dad's trouble.
Just try to give blood somewhere and that will get things down some.

 

[fryzway]

So I could take the aspirin and celery seed extract together even tho they can both thin the blood ? Thanks again Maldorf and everyone for the input. I am just trying to learn as much as possible to keep as healthy as I can for as long as I can.

 

[718si]

Shodn't be an issue. I believe they work via different mechanisms... Perhaps someone with a high level understanding of how they both work can elaborate?

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk

 

[maldorf]

So I could take the aspirin and celery seed extract together even tho they can both thin the blood ? Thanks again Maldorf and everyone for the input. I am just trying to learn as much as possible to keep as healthy as I can for as long as I can.

Well, I dont know about the seed but I wouldnt worry about that, and the aspirin doesnt "thin" your blood it just makes the platelets less likely to stick together. I think it has an effect on fibrin somehow, not sure. THe only way to thin your blood would be to drink a shit ton of water but that only works short term, or to get a phlebotomy. You have to increase the volume of plasma in relation to the volume of blood cells.

 

[fryzway]

Thanks again y'all that eased my mind and cleared things up.

 

[fryzway]

I been doing a lot of Google research on the 1 vs 2 shot per wk on Trt. I'm confused on whether it will keep my TT higher or if would be lower overall bc I won't have the huge spike from a straight 200mg single dose. So if my TT is 550 range 1 wk after my 200mg inject it is prob safe to say its around 1,000 range when peaked. So if I pin 100mg/mon and 100mg/Wed would my peak and through levels be a steady 550 range ? I know there's no telling without blood work but I'm just trying to guesstimate. Also, would that help my Rbc, Hgb tc stay lower ?

 

[turbobusa]

Not sure how much depakote you take but keep a check on your liver. My lil sis takes about 1000mgs daily and has for about 20 yrs. Her liv values are always jacked. No choice though it's the only thing that controlls her epilepsy well. Take care and good luck. T

 

[fryzway]

I take 1,000mg at night. I had my liver values checked 3 months after starting and everything was in line. Not out of whack at all. Anyone have advice on the 1 vs 2 shots a week ?

 

[Stewie]

I have secondary Polycythemia Vera, So my Hemoglobin/Hematocrit rise a little faster than most without PV, I have routine phlebotomies (monthly) only if my hemoglobin is 16.4>…… I've found that on once a week dose of 180 mg raises my HH above 18 and on occasion as much as 19.6, by splitting my dose in half over a period of 3 months I noticed a minor drop in my HH, somewhere around 17 +/-. For the last 6 months I've dosed on a EOD routine, and with a finger prick at the red cross my Hemoglobin has been more stable on a few occasions it was lower than 16.4…… which is a blessing, my veins are shot, I recently found out I have OSA, which will raises ones HH amongst other health and hormonal issues, I get my CPAP today, and over the next 3 months I'll be monitoring my HH in hopes that it drops even more? Although I have a feeling my body has set a threshold on my RBC's……time will tell.

IMO HRT in males is poorly understood why some don't respond as well as others,some feel its related to ones Cortisol levels, placing one in either a hyper-excreter or a hypo-excreter of Testosterone.....I'm trying to understand this myself.

As far as a hormonal status goes I've used several different protocols from once a week to twice a week to daily sub q and now on EOD shallow IM with a 27ga ½" using a 1 ml syringe.

Going both deep IM and sub q had more of an effect on raising my E2 and SHBG, although sub q raised my TT more so than IM, with minimal change on Bio available Testosterone, this would be reflective of E2 and SHBG.

By switching to EOD shallow IM my TT is much higher as well as my Bio available T, my E2 and SHBG are in optimal ranges,once I notice my nocturnal and morning erections start to fade I'll take 12.5 mg of Aromasin when I get up and another 12.5 mg if needed the following morning.


I just had blood work done yesterday,I go back on the 27th for a follow up on my results.
When I get my results, I'm going to share my experiences over the last years through different methods of my HRT.

I take 1,000mg at night. I had my liver values checked 3 months after starting and everything was in line. Not out of whack at all. Anyone have advice on the 1 vs 2 shots a week ?

 

[saps]

I have secondary Polycythemia Vera, So my Hemoglobin/Hematocrit rise a little faster than most without PV, I have routine phlebotomies (monthly) only if my hemoglobin is 16.4>…… I've found that on once a week dose of 180 mg raises my HH above 18 and on occasion as much as 19.6, by splitting my dose in half over a period of 3 months I noticed a minor drop in my HH, somewhere around 17 +/-. For the last 6 months I've dosed on a EOD routine, and with a finger prick at the red cross my Hemoglobin has been more stable on a few occasions it was lower than 16.4…… which is a blessing, my veins are shot, I recently found out I have OSA, which will raises ones HH amongst other health and hormonal issues, I get my CPAP today, and over the next 3 months I'll be monitoring my HH in hopes that it drops even more? Although I have a feeling my body has set a threshold on my RBC's……time will tell.

IMO HRT in males is poorly understood why some don't respond as well as others,some feel its related to ones Cortisol levels, placing one in either a hyper-excreter or a hypo-excreter of Testosterone.....I'm trying to understand this myself.

As far as a hormonal status goes I've used several different protocols from once a week to twice a week to daily sub q and now on EOD shallow IM with a 27ga ½" using a 1 ml syringe.

Going both deep IM and sub q had more of an effect on raising my E2 and SHBG, although sub q raised my TT more so than IM, with minimal change on Bio available Testosterone, this would be reflective of E2 and SHBG.

By switching to EOD shallow IM my TT is much higher as well as my Bio available T, my E2 and SHBG are in optimal ranges,once I notice my nocturnal and morning erections start to fade I'll take 12.5 mg of Aromasin when I get up and another 12.5 mg if needed the following morning.


I just had blood work done yesterday,I go back on the 27th for a follow up on my results.
When I get my results, I'm going to share my experiences over the last years through different methods of my HRT.

Great post Stewie. I glad there words are spreading about this stuff. I'm very close to your numbers as well. I was a frequent 19+ man myself. Found out the hard way that cruise doses must be less than 200mg for me if I want to have adequate recover of a number of factors. I also have found that more frequent pinning seems to be beneficial as well. I'm doing 50mg EOD for my cruise and indeed the more frequent dosing really seems to limit E2 elevation compared with weekly pins. Its a never ending search for the best method I myself have not found it yet. Although my very last RedCross finger prick was an all time low of 16.3 so somethings are definitely moving in the right direction

 

[Kaladryn]

I have secondary Polycythemia Vera, So my Hemoglobin/Hematocrit rise a little faster than most without PV, I have routine phlebotomies (monthly) only if my hemoglobin is 16.4>…… I've found that on once a week dose of 180 mg raises my HH above 18 and on occasion as much as 19.6, by splitting my dose in half over a period of 3 months I noticed a minor drop in my HH, somewhere around 17 +/-. For the last 6 months I've dosed on a EOD routine, and with a finger prick at the red cross my Hemoglobin has been more stable on a few occasions it was lower than 16.4…… which is a blessing, my veins are shot, I recently found out I have OSA, which will raises ones HH amongst other health and hormonal issues, I get my CPAP today, and over the next 3 months I'll be monitoring my HH in hopes that it drops even more? Although I have a feeling my body has set a threshold on my RBC's……time will tell.

IMO HRT in males is poorly understood why some don't respond as well as others,some feel its related to ones Cortisol levels, placing one in either a hyper-excreter or a hypo-excreter of Testosterone.....I'm trying to understand this myself.

As far as a hormonal status goes I've used several different protocols from once a week to twice a week to daily sub q and now on EOD shallow IM with a 27ga ½" using a 1 ml syringe.

Going both deep IM and sub q had more of an effect on raising my E2 and SHBG, although sub q raised my TT more so than IM, with minimal change on Bio available Testosterone, this would be reflective of E2 and SHBG.

By switching to EOD shallow IM my TT is much higher as well as my Bio available T, my E2 and SHBG are in optimal ranges,once I notice my nocturnal and morning erections start to fade I'll take 12.5 mg of Aromasin when I get up and another 12.5 mg if needed the following morning.


I just had blood work done yesterday,I go back on the 27th for a follow up on my results.
When I get my results, I'm going to share my experiences over the last years through different methods of my HRT.

Great post, very good info! I have a few tidbits that might be useful to you. First, as you have noticed, RBC seems to want to reach a certain level on a certain dose and pretty much stay there on most people. At this point, you still have the chance to lower hematocrit by increasing blood volume. Things that push into your anaerobic threshhold increase RBCs (weight training does this effectively), lower intensity aerobic exercise increases blood volume.

As you probably know, hematocrit is usually 2-3 points lower than hemoglobin x3

Finally, a theory of mine, based on new research that SHBG shows that it is actually an active transport mechanism, picking testosterone and estradiol out of the bloodstream and transporting it into the cell. A binding site for SHBG has been found on the cell membrane, this may replace the old theory of passive hormone diffusion across the cell membrane. This would explain several things, first it explains why there is competitive inhibition between test and E2, second it would explain why E2 is important for muscle building (E2 increases SHBG). So, if you are going to take your testosterone level to the upper limits of normal or beyond, you should probably make sure your E2 is also proportionality raised also...

 

[Stewie]

As always I'm tuned into your writings, there's a few across the boards that grab my attention……Yours and JanSz are worthy of taking note...

SHBG,TT,E2
I've noticed that also per blood work of mine, My TT was around 1500ish, Bio available 280+/-,SHBG 30's, and E2 around 50( I don't have exact #'s with me, close though).

Felt functionally great, No brain fog, libido issues ect…
So your absolutely right!

Lower intensity aerobic exercise is my new found friend
Taking it down a notch…… My rest periods have generally been 30 seconds between sets, I'll bump it up to a minute +.

Thanks Kaladryn!

Great post, very good info! I have a few tidbits that might be useful to you. First, as you have noticed, RBC seems to want to reach a certain level on a certain dose and pretty much stay there on most people. At this point, you still have the chance to lower hematocrit by increasing blood volume. Things that push into your anaerobic threshhold increase RBCs (weight training does this effectively), lower intensity aerobic exercise increases blood volume.

As you probably know, hematocrit is usually 2-3 points lower than hemoglobin x3

Finally, a theory of mine, based on new research that SHBG shows that it is actually an active transport mechanism, picking testosterone and estradiol out of the bloodstream and transporting it into the cell. A binding site for SHBG has been found on the cell membrane, this may replace the old theory of passive hormone diffusion across the cell membrane. This would explain several things, first it explains why there is competitive inhibition between test and E2, second it would explain why E2 is important for muscle building (E2 increases SHBG). So, if you are going to take your testosterone level to the upper limits of normal or beyond, you should probably make sure your E2 is also proportionality raised also...

 

[aphextwin]

Stewie,

Do you feel aerobic activities have help your hemoglobin numbers?