I am interested in cardio as a mean to help control RBC. It would make sense that higher intensity cardio might better manage hematocrit. Is there any truth to this or does it really matter in terms of intensity? Thanks
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High Hgb and Rbc on TRT..Need advice Please
- Thread starter fryzway
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I am interested in cardio as a mean to help control RBC. It would make sense that higher intensity cardio might better manage hematocrit. Is there any truth to this or does it really matter in terms of intensity? Thanks
It's great so many ppl jumped into this topic. As those of us on Trt are unfortunately getting younger, it's important we share our experiences with each other and learn from them. It's like we are the real deal clinical trials that society won't allow. I am going to keep my dose to twice a wk until my next labs and see what kind of effect it has, if any at all. Im still trying to figure out if the twice a wk inject schedule will result in higher blood levels of TT. I don't think slight elevations in Rbc, Hgb Hct etc... Are necessarily a bad thing as several labs list a safe upper level of Rbc to be 6.1-6.4 and I've found Hgb to be 18 on numerous medical sights that are highly credible. It does list Hct up to 62%. But from reading Maldorf's experience I don't find that acceptable. Them again, it all comes down to the individual. My grandpa had atrial fib his whole life from Rheumatic Fever and lived 70 years that way. He is still alive and doing well after finally having valve surgery with pig and bovine valves. Just recently he found out they are both leaking and has to go for an echo again in 6 months but the doc says it may not even be enough to require surgical correction !
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Agreed. It is why it is critical to have labwork done both on blast/cycle as well as off cycle/cruise. Yes things will be worse when you're on everything and the kitchen sink. But that's where you often times find the best info on who the culprits might be. It was seeing how massively high my rbc and hematocrit were on eq that caused to me permanently remove that compound from ever being in my system again.
Like anything if we find something that doesn't agree with our system we drop it or perhaps find enough ancillary support to run it. Many guys get Deca dick, if caber doesn't help make an adjustment. Winny some love it but its a joint destroyer for others. I love mast with a passion but others lose hair and for them that might be enough to avoid it. Things like this are easy too see or feel. The blood numbers are hidden though, which is why testing is a must. Beginning of 2011 I'm blasting with test mast and tren go into a cruise for a couple months and reblast with the same test mast and tren only this time I add in EQ. So a fairly controlled sample comparison. With just a difference of 300mg/wk of EQ my RBC was .9 higher and my hematocrit was nearly 6 higher. Now does it matter that 7 weeks into the cruise my RBC and hematocrit were nearly on the same levels as the previous cruise? Well to me it was a moot point. Since my blast periods are longer in duration than my cruises I obviously spend more time with those numbers as my reality. In any given calendar year I'm blasting say 30-40 weeks a year and cruises 10-20 weeks a year depending how the calendar falls. Basically its a 2-1 ratio. Knowing my numbers on a blast and knowing that's 2/3 of my reality I could not justify having an RBC over 6.4 and a hematocrit over 56, no way no how. Now equally true does that mean having RBC of 5.5 and hematocrit of 49 means I'm all free and clear, certainly not. Its a never ending dance between how much do you compromise of your healthy numbers versus how much bigger and stronger and better you wanna look and be.
Constant and perennial monitoring are the only way to go in this game especially for those of us who never come off. Even the trt cruiser 200mg/wk after months and maybe even year will impact stuff negatively if unwatched numbers begin creeping in the wrong direction.
I'm just the opposite. I spend most of my time on Trt 200mg/wk and very little time blasting. I may not blast anymore considering my Rbc is 6.1 on the Trt. Granted its on 2/10's high but still something to watch. My next question is, since I moved my T CyP to 100mg-Sun and 100mg-Wed and so on does that mean I'm getting an accumulative 300mg/wk now ? Also, to keep E2 down I can move my 25mg dose to Mon and Thurs right ? That is 24hrs afte injections and it should be peaked b then, correct ? The reason I ask is bc I have been having hot flashes since switching to this inject schedule this past Sun. Back to it tho, Tren Ace has always intrigued me but intimidated me enough to stay away!!! I bench 365 lbs for 8 reps now @ 245 just on my Trt, so, I've always wondered where my strength could go with only say, 200mg/wk of Tren Ace.
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That 6.1 would likely come down into the mid 5's after just a one pint donation and if you were regular it should be even lower still. I know you've been trying to figure out exactly how to get your old blood out though.
I don't know if its a super big deal when you do your shots or even the exemastane. I think you'd be quite pleased with how 200mg of tren ace did for you. I'm a huge proponent of keeping test at a trt dose to limit sides. So if you fancied a couple months of your 200 test and 200 tren you'd definitely know how it works. Quite frankly with tren ace you should a difference the second week
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I have a little bit different opinion than most people on this site concerning hematocrit. I see guys freaking out if its at the high end of the range. Im sorry but most bodybuilders are going to be at the high end of the range.
Every bodybuilder that uses juice that lives in Denver Colorado most people on this site would think they were going to drop dead...and thats just not the case. I guarentee you most people (not only bodybuilders) especially men are running higher hematocrit and hemoglobin in Colorado. I see people suggesting serious worry when others state their hematocrit is 50-51 on this site...
As bodybuilders we are always going to have higher creatinine levels and virtually all of us are going to have higher hematocrit and hemoglobin levels. You got to remember Upper range still means just that "Upper range". Now im not trying to trivialize this subject but of note:
What is a normal hematocrit?
Normal values for the hematocrit test vary according to age, sex, pregnancy, altitude where people live, and even vary slightly between various testing methods. The following are reported ranges of normal hematocrit levels:
•Newborns: 55%-68%
•One (1) week of age: 47%-65%
•One (1) month of age: 37%-49%
•Three (3) months of age: 30%-36%
•One (1) year of age: 29%-41%
•Ten (10) years of age: 36%-40%
•Adult males: 42%-54%
•Adult women: 38%-46%
•Adult pregnant women: about 30% - 34% lower limits and 46% upper limits
•High Altitude residents: about 45% - 61% in males; 41% - 56% in females (These levels gradually average higher as the altitude where people live increases. This is a result of the increased demand for the oxygen-carrying capacity of red blood cells at higher altitudes where there is decreased oxygen concentration in the atmosphere.)
Now if you are a juice using bodybuilder and you are regularly 56 plus hematocrit...i would say that yea you should probably be giving blood. 58 is unnacceptable and you need to do something about it. 60 plus your asking for problems especially if you let yourself get dehydrated. But guys freaking out and giving blood at 49, 50, 51.....I think you are getting a little paranoid about all this.
I would make the cutoff exactly what Dr Crisler suggests what the cuttoff should be.....if you are over 54% hematocrit...go give blood and keep track of things definitely.....as bodybuilders because of the training cardio and protein intake every one of us is almost in a chronic dehydration state so you have to keep constantly hydrated.
What is serum creatinine range? .75 to 1.25? I guarentee every single one of you guys who have over 3.25 pounds of bodyweight at a high degree of muscle mass and leaness has a creatinine level very much nearer to the 1.25 mark than the .75 mark due to the years of protein turnover/intake/etc......and you probably wouldnt panic as long as thats in range correct? Kind of the same thing here with hematocrit and 48-52 is a pretty darn common hematocrit for bodybuilders to have.
Every bodybuilder that uses juice that lives in Denver Colorado most people on this site would think they were going to drop dead...and thats just not the case. I guarentee you most people (not only bodybuilders) especially men are running higher hematocrit and hemoglobin in Colorado. I see people suggesting serious worry when others state their hematocrit is 50-51 on this site...
As bodybuilders we are always going to have higher creatinine levels and virtually all of us are going to have higher hematocrit and hemoglobin levels. You got to remember Upper range still means just that "Upper range". Now im not trying to trivialize this subject but of note:
What is a normal hematocrit?
Normal values for the hematocrit test vary according to age, sex, pregnancy, altitude where people live, and even vary slightly between various testing methods. The following are reported ranges of normal hematocrit levels:
•Newborns: 55%-68%
•One (1) week of age: 47%-65%
•One (1) month of age: 37%-49%
•Three (3) months of age: 30%-36%
•One (1) year of age: 29%-41%
•Ten (10) years of age: 36%-40%
•Adult males: 42%-54%
•Adult women: 38%-46%
•Adult pregnant women: about 30% - 34% lower limits and 46% upper limits
•High Altitude residents: about 45% - 61% in males; 41% - 56% in females (These levels gradually average higher as the altitude where people live increases. This is a result of the increased demand for the oxygen-carrying capacity of red blood cells at higher altitudes where there is decreased oxygen concentration in the atmosphere.)
Now if you are a juice using bodybuilder and you are regularly 56 plus hematocrit...i would say that yea you should probably be giving blood. 58 is unnacceptable and you need to do something about it. 60 plus your asking for problems especially if you let yourself get dehydrated. But guys freaking out and giving blood at 49, 50, 51.....I think you are getting a little paranoid about all this.
I would make the cutoff exactly what Dr Crisler suggests what the cuttoff should be.....if you are over 54% hematocrit...go give blood and keep track of things definitely.....as bodybuilders because of the training cardio and protein intake every one of us is almost in a chronic dehydration state so you have to keep constantly hydrated.
What is serum creatinine range? .75 to 1.25? I guarentee every single one of you guys who have over 3.25 pounds of bodyweight at a high degree of muscle mass and leaness has a creatinine level very much nearer to the 1.25 mark than the .75 mark due to the years of protein turnover/intake/etc......and you probably wouldnt panic as long as thats in range correct? Kind of the same thing here with hematocrit and 48-52 is a pretty darn common hematocrit for bodybuilders to have.
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718si
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Agreed about high 50s being the area where you really need to start worrying.... I've been donating religiously every 8 weeks for the last year and half.... The last time I donated, I had my lowest # to date - a 55! The only time my doc freaked out and called me prior to my regularly scheduled visit was when I had a 61. I re-tested the next day (but in the afternoon & well hydrated vs 1st thing in the am & thirsty when I got the 61) and had a 58. That's when I started giving blood.
Every time I donate, the blood bank freaks out saying how high my levels are - my doc says as long as I'm trending down (however slow it is), and below 60, then no worries.
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Solid posts from the 2 guys above. I may fancy some Tren Ace in the future. I'm picking Ace incase I run into any really uncomfortable sides. I would love to see my bench hit 405 for reps and Tren sounds like it could be the tool to get me there !!!!! The only thing is I am Bi-Polar and on a Mood Stabilizer and anti-anxiety Meds for Generalized Anxiety Disorder so I doubt me and Tren would get along very well. LOL. Add In the stories I hear of aggression on Tren and @ my size and strength and my disorders, I might kill somebody!
Here's a thought. What about Masteron at say 350-400mg/wk ? I read on here that it makes most feel great. At that dose could I even get away with dropping my Aromasin or greatly reducing it while on ? Is there any comparison with Mast at that dose and Tren @ 200mg/wk as far as, body changes and strength gains ? Would I have to keep a really close eye on my BP on those 2 compounds ? I am getting ready to send out an order for a future blast and just trying to get advice from Bro's who have been there done that !!
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A quality post as usual Dante. I will take exception to this above point though. You of course are completely correct to assert that as aas users our rbc's will be higher and thus hematocrit as well. But I would stop short of using the word paranoid for someone with a hematocrit level around 50 who regularly gives blood. In my own case yes I've seen 56+ readings and it didn't take much extrapolation to figure out it was the EQ causing that number to be even higher than my personal normal. I've learned that with the compounds I normally run on blasts that 8-12 into a blast my hematocrit will get into that 54-55 zone. If I'm cruising on less than 200mg within 6-8 weeks I can be near 50. For me donating a pint will generally bring my hematocrit down by about 4-5 points. Now if I'm doing this regularly like every 8 weeks I could probably keep myself near 50 on blasts and mid 40's on my cruises. For better or worse I don't actually give blood every 8 weeks though so its not uncommon for me to give blood on a cruise and then start a blast for say 12-16 weeks. Even starting at a 47 if I don't get some blood out after say 14 weeks I will right back into that mid 50 zone. Its why I really do need to be giving as close to every 8 weeks as I can.
So for someone like me, if I give a pint and get down into the upper 40's after 8 weeks yeah maybe I only climb to say 50 especially if I'm just cruising. But knowing that I blast, and that those blasts are usually double the duration of my cruises and at 5-6x my cruise dose and that I still find it imperative to be concerned about all these numbers and taking care it as best I can.
Between giving too much worry and focus to maintaining decent blood numbers and not enough I'd prefer to err on the side of too much. As you've said yourself how many guys years later are just wrecked. Personally I've never ran more than 2G a week ever. I don't think if it means I'm paranoid for being on a statin and closely monitoring my lipid profile. I don't think I'm paranoid for discovering I had hypertension and taking steps to reduce that, including altering compound selection and duration. Nor do I think knowing how high my rbc and hematocrit can climb I'm off base for regularly taking steps to reduce those numbers.
There are some outspoken members here who have had heart attacks and other cardiac concerns. As educated as this board is I still fear a majority of guys in here might not know their cholesterol numbers both on and off cycle, or their BP or their rbc/hematocrit. If it seems that those of us who do are zealots for beating this drum, perhaps that's what's needed to at least draw attention to an under-discussed but very necessary theme topic.
There are lots of guys in here like myself who never come off completely. Sure my cruise dose is now a genuine trt level and even my blasts have been altered, reducing and even exclusing some compounds do to their effects on me. But that's what must be done if this lifestyle is to be lived for decades on end.
I think the underlying message is that while its certainly true that you don't have to panic if you see your RBC is 6 or your hematocrit is 53. Equally true I hope guys at least know what their numbers are. I firmly believe everyone who is on 52 weeks a year should be regularly giving blood. Even the guys who cycle will benefit from periodic phlebotomy.
Bottom line is always know what's going in your system. We can see and feel if masteron is causing us to lose hair, if test or dbol is giving us gyno, if winny has our joints brittle, if deca has us limp as a noodle. If we encounter these issues we either find the ancillary support needed to continue the compound or we abstain from the compound culprit. What we cannot see and feel though are those bloodwork numbers. So again I'd rather be excessive than minimalistic in testing so I know where I'm at at any given point during a blast or cruise.
I hope its clear here that my intention was not to split hair's with Dante's point but again to beat the drum and heed the call to have full knowledge of these above points and not to take lightly numbers which might be creeping in a poor direction. So if anyone finds themself with a hematocrit of 56 or an HDL of 6 or diastolic BP of 107 do something about it. But you won't know to do anything unless you know those numbers.
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Hard to compare tren and mast. Some have called mast tren-lite since you will get some strength increase and it can contribute to some increased leanness, hardness and vascularity. A 400mg/wk dose of mast though will not produce as dramatic results though of even half that in tren. But they do compliment each other very well IMO/IME. I'm an advocate of always keeping a close eye on BP. Tren for some can really skyrocket BP, usually that occurs when concurrently running a moderate dose of test and can generally be minimized with a low dose of test but as always there are some exceptions and you won't know unless you are tested for your numbers.
The need for aromasin with also on masteron again will vary from indivdual to individual. My blasts tend to be a low dose of test with a medium dose of mast and tren. On this combo, I don't need aromasin per se. My own E2 levels say at an acceptable range to my test levels. Again though only lab works will tell you where you are.
So yeah I'd endorse a test mast tren run, just be prepared to adjust as needed if you encounter issues
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Saps Im not talking about guys who have allready proven to themselves that they personally have hematocrit problems.....people that do should be monitoring themselves all the time. Im talking about the 3-4 guys Ive seen over the last couple months posting their bloodwork and they say something to the effect "off my hematocrit is 46, now its 50.8, should I go give blood?"
There is alot of thought that goes into this....is this guy going to get off, is he on all the time, is he off and on, has this guy repeatedly gotten hematocrit readings up over 54, has this guys highest hematocrit reading ever been 51, does he live in high elevation.
I doubt very much that guys in here are going to jump on iron pills if their hemoglobin was 15.2 and hematocrit is 44 so i dont think its an absolute neccessity either to give blood at 50 hematocrit unless
a) they want to
b) they know its going to go higher instead of maintain or lower
If anyone in here has proven to themselves and ever had a hematocrit reading of 54 or higher....then they should be expecting to give blood.
There is alot of thought that goes into this....is this guy going to get off, is he on all the time, is he off and on, has this guy repeatedly gotten hematocrit readings up over 54, has this guys highest hematocrit reading ever been 51, does he live in high elevation.
I doubt very much that guys in here are going to jump on iron pills if their hemoglobin was 15.2 and hematocrit is 44 so i dont think its an absolute neccessity either to give blood at 50 hematocrit unless
a) they want to
b) they know its going to go higher instead of maintain or lower
If anyone in here has proven to themselves and ever had a hematocrit reading of 54 or higher....then they should be expecting to give blood.
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Complete and total agreement. Well stated.
A good debate fellas. That's y I started this thread. For the controversy and the awareness and opinIons and knowledge to get out there, be read and commented on. I have to say, for the amount of $ we spend on our gear and how careful we are to sterilize and store our vials and how we use clever hiding places to put our gear and how many countless hrs we put into research of the compounds it baffles me how people won't for over a measly couple hundred bucks for labs and if I have insurance it's usually nothing. That just seems backward to me. We should spend the most $ on the ancilaries and blood monitoring and less on the gear itself. How many times have we seen people look like they are in incredible shape on the outside, only to be rotting on the inside. Both arguments are completely valid above but I have to lean toward being more proactive in your health bc finding a problem before it becomes a catastrophe is the diff btwn longevity and being cut short in this life.
Looking for an answer...thanks
I am interested in cardio as a mean to help control RBC. It would make sense that higher intensity cardio might better manage hematocrit. Is there any truth to this or does it really matter in terms of intensity? Thanks
I am interested in cardio as a mean to help control RBC. It would make sense that higher intensity cardio might better manage hematocrit. Is there any truth to this or does it really matter in terms of intensity? Thanks
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