High reps

[Drago]

do you think high repetition are more using for the joints than medium or low reps ?

 

[brocksamson]

do you think high repetition are more using for the joints than medium or low reps ?

What are you asking exactly?
High reps are better on joints?

 

[bigstick]

I get high as hell then I go to gym and do a lot of reps.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

If you can do 5 to 10 reps for most movements then that's the best for muscle growth maybe except for quadriceps but if you have to do high reps because you have an injury then you have to do them

 

[LATS]

Hypertrophy happens at any rep range south of 25 or 30.. IF YOU GO TO FAILURE.. and rep ranges are heavily 8nfluenced on how you do the reps.. example.. I do a full 3 seconds down.. slight pause.. press through the concentric for 1 second.. pause .. repeat.. now doing that I fail at 8 reps..

But if I explode through the concentric and just control the negative on the way down I'm doubt a 2 second repetition.. doing it this way I can get 15 reps.. same load.. so which rep range is better??

Another example.. say I do 8 reps.. 3 second eccentric.. 2 second concentric.. my rep takes 5 seconds.. 8 reps takes 40 seconds or thereabouts.. but my partner does 8 reps but does them 1 second down.. 1 second up for a total of 16 seconds total on set.. both of us did 8 reps .. but do we think for a second the stress was the same?

Reps are arbitrary.. they allow one to gauge progress as long as the reps are done the same each time..
So load and rep ranges are a bit arbitrary.. they can be manipulated a number of ways.. go to failure or close and keep track of poundages.. if joints hurt then lessen load or slow down the movements to failure.. this will lessen load on joints.. there is no better rep range.. all reps are different in time under tension and performance..

 

[xpoc]

Hypertrophy happens at any rep range south of 25 or 30.. IF YOU GO TO FAILURE.. and rep ranges are heavily 8nfluenced on how you do the reps.. example.. I do a full 3 seconds down.. slight pause.. press through the concentric for 1 second.. pause .. repeat.. now doing that I fail at 8 reps..

But if I explode through the concentric and just control the negative on the way down I'm doubt a 2 second repetition.. doing it this way I can get 15 reps.. same load.. so which rep range is better??

Another example.. say I do 8 reps.. 3 second eccentric.. 2 second concentric.. my rep takes 5 seconds.. 8 reps takes 40 seconds or thereabouts.. but my partner does 8 reps but does them 1 second down.. 1 second up for a total of 16 seconds total on set.. both of us did 8 reps .. but do we think for a second the stress was the same?

Reps are arbitrary.. they allow one to gauge progress as long as the reps are done the same each time..
So load and rep ranges are a bit arbitrary.. they can be manipulated a number of ways.. go to failure or close and keep track of poundages.. if joints hurt then lessen load or slow down the movements to failure.. this will lessen load on joints.. there is no better rep range.. all reps are different in time under tension and performance..

Good shxt here ^^^

 

[lookslikesausage]

Just to add on to Lats's great post...in addition to the tempo, ROM should also be taken into account. I remember Mike O'Hearn and Stan Efferding had a Squat for reps competition. Well, Stan went hams to calves and O'Hearn went to parallel or maybe just a tad higher. Guess who got more reps all while everyone present pretended that the reps were same. Not only was one guy working a lot harder, the movements are almost totally different. Your low bar parallel depth squats are not hitting the quads the same way a high bar full depth squat Olympic weightlifting style w/heeled shoes or elevated heels is.

 

[danieltx]

Just to add on to Lats's great post...in addition to the tempo, ROM should also be taken into account. I remember Mike O'Hearn and Stan Efferding had a Squat for reps competition. Well, Stan went hams to calves and O'Hearn went to parallel or maybe just a tad higher. Guess who got more reps all while everyone present pretended that the reps were same. Not only was one guy working a lot harder, the movements are almost totally different. Your low bar parallel depth squats are not hitting the quads the same way a high bar full depth squat Olympic weightlifting style w/heeled shoes or elevated heels is.

Have you seen Stan Efferding's legs when he's competed in bodybuilding?

 

[lookslikesausage]

Have you seen Stan Efferding's legs when he's competed in bodybuilding?

I have and to my knowledge, he didn't do deep high bar squats during most of his bodybuilding career. In fact, in the said video, his butt wink is quite noticeable and he's not able to keep his torso upright. Probably not qualities conducive to good quads in the context of squatting. He never had great legs but that's besides the point of this thread. My point is that what one is calling a squat and the next guy is might be two different things and may or may not be helpful for hypertrophy in the desired area (whether they know it or not).

 

[juggy38]

Hypertrophy happens at any rep range south of 25 or 30.. IF YOU GO TO FAILURE.. and rep ranges are heavily 8nfluenced on how you do the reps.. example.. I do a full 3 seconds down.. slight pause.. press through the concentric for 1 second.. pause .. repeat.. now doing that I fail at 8 reps..

But if I explode through the concentric and just control the negative on the way down I'm doubt a 2 second repetition.. doing it this way I can get 15 reps.. same load.. so which rep range is better??

Another example.. say I do 8 reps.. 3 second eccentric.. 2 second concentric.. my rep takes 5 seconds.. 8 reps takes 40 seconds or thereabouts.. but my partner does 8 reps but does them 1 second down.. 1 second up for a total of 16 seconds total on set.. both of us did 8 reps .. but do we think for a second the stress was the same?

Reps are arbitrary.. they allow one to gauge progress as long as the reps are done the same each time..
So load and rep ranges are a bit arbitrary.. they can be manipulated a number of ways.. go to failure or close and keep track of poundages.. if joints hurt then lessen load or slow down the movements to failure.. this will lessen load on joints.. there is no better rep range.. all reps are different in time under tension and performance..

Nailed it.

Mentally, I think reaching true failure for most people at higher rep ranges is harder.

If you load the leg press with 6 plates a side and you almost blow a jugular at 9 reps, that sucks, but most can do it. But to load it with 4 plates a side and take that to TRUE failure at 22 reps….I’d say 90% gym rats can’t do it. Nasty nasty pain and too much brain time to think “fuck this I’ll do another set”

 

[LATS]

Nailed it.

Mentally, I think reaching true failure for most people at higher rep ranges is harder.

If you load the leg press with 6 plates a side and you almost blow a jugular at 9 reps, that sucks, but most can do it. But to load it with 4 plates a side and take that to TRUE failure at 22 reps….I’d say 90% gym rats can’t do it. Nasty nasty pain and too much brain time to think “fuck this I’ll do another set”

Yes.. and then the misnomer happens about how lighter loads aren't effective.. when doing lighter loads for longer tut you have to be able to distinguish if I hit true failure.. not mental failure.. not a fatigue product failure but actual contractile failure.. many can not distinguish between them..

 

[xpoc]

Nailed it.

Mentally, I think reaching true failure for most people at higher rep ranges is harder.

If you load the leg press with 6 plates a side and you almost blow a jugular at 9 reps, that sucks, but most can do it. But to load it with 4 plates a side and take that to TRUE failure at 22 reps….I’d say 90% gym rats can’t do it. Nasty nasty pain and too much brain time to think “fuck this I’ll do another set”

I agree. I still work in the higher rep range because I am older and my joints are achy. But, YES it is at first tedious and then gets downright torturous. I just noticed this article yesterday and he touches upon that very topic under "LOAD"

The Best Way to Build Muscle, According to Science

Eight professor-types analyze the research and come up with some solid recommendations on how to stop wasting time in the gym.

www.t-nation.com

 

[goback2013]

I get high as hell then I go to gym and do a lot of reps.

Love this right here.

 

[tony touch]

I get high as hell then I go to gym and do a lot of reps.

Me too

 

[mpjuice]

Nailed it.

Mentally, I think reaching true failure for most people at higher rep ranges is harder.

If you load the leg press with 6 plates a side and you almost blow a jugular at 9 reps, that sucks, but most can do it. But to load it with 4 plates a side and take that to TRUE failure at 22 reps….I’d say 90% gym rats can’t do it. Nasty nasty pain and too much brain time to think “fuck this I’ll do another set”

Most people can't do one leg press rep (with proper rom)

 

[jaxino]

I don't understand that "going to failure" thing, it's not a must, at all.

If this statement was true, all the high volume trainers shouldn't grow, since you have to leave 1-2 reps in reserve.

Training to failure or not: Impact on hypertrophy and strength

For some, training to failure is optimal for muscle hypertrophy and strength since such method assumes that all available motor units are recruited. But for others, this method could even have a detrimental effect. What does science say about it?

www.sci-sport.com

"this meta-analysis seems to show that there is no significant difference in strength and/or hypertrophy between non-failure training and training to failure"

References​

1. Grgic J, Schoenfeld BJ, Orazem J and Sabol F. Effects of resistance training performed to repetition failure or non-failure on muscular strength and hypertrophy : a systematic review and meta-analysis. J Sport Health Sci, 2021

That said, I think that to save joints you have to reduce loads, so go for high volume (with 1-2 reps in reserve) and don't rush your set.
This way you will produce time under tension, metabolic stress AND cellular damage with a less weight.

 

[Lilleo187]

Hypertrophy happens at any rep range south of 25 or 30.. IF YOU GO TO FAILURE.. and rep ranges are heavily 8nfluenced on how you do the reps.. example.. I do a full 3 seconds down.. slight pause.. press through the concentric for 1 second.. pause .. repeat.. now doing that I fail at 8 reps..

But if I explode through the concentric and just control the negative on the way down I'm doubt a 2 second repetition.. doing it this way I can get 15 reps.. same load.. so which rep range is better??

Another example.. say I do 8 reps.. 3 second eccentric.. 2 second concentric.. my rep takes 5 seconds.. 8 reps takes 40 seconds or thereabouts.. but my partner does 8 reps but does them 1 second down.. 1 second up for a total of 16 seconds total on set.. both of us did 8 reps .. but do we think for a second the stress was the same?

Reps are arbitrary.. they allow one to gauge progress as long as the reps are done the same each time..
So load and rep ranges are a bit arbitrary.. they can be manipulated a number of ways.. go to failure or close and keep track of poundages.. if joints hurt then lessen load or slow down the movements to failure.. this will lessen load on joints.. there is no better rep range.. all reps are different in time under tension and performance..

What about calorie expenditure? I feel like its harder to grow from high reps gym since its higher volume and takes longer. Meaning you would have to eat more. Compared to lower volume heavier weight session...whats your take on that?

 

[maldorf]

Hypertrophy happens at any rep range south of 25 or 30.. IF YOU GO TO FAILURE.. and rep ranges are heavily 8nfluenced on how you do the reps.. example.. I do a full 3 seconds down.. slight pause.. press through the concentric for 1 second.. pause .. repeat.. now doing that I fail at 8 reps..

But if I explode through the concentric and just control the negative on the way down I'm doubt a 2 second repetition.. doing it this way I can get 15 reps.. same load.. so which rep range is better??

Another example.. say I do 8 reps.. 3 second eccentric.. 2 second concentric.. my rep takes 5 seconds.. 8 reps takes 40 seconds or thereabouts.. but my partner does 8 reps but does them 1 second down.. 1 second up for a total of 16 seconds total on set.. both of us did 8 reps .. but do we think for a second the stress was the same?

Reps are arbitrary.. they allow one to gauge progress as long as the reps are done the same each time..
So load and rep ranges are a bit arbitrary.. they can be manipulated a number of ways.. go to failure or close and keep track of poundages.. if joints hurt then lessen load or slow down the movements to failure.. this will lessen load on joints.. there is no better rep range.. all reps are different in time under tension and performance..

It's also much easier to go to failure with lower reps. When doing high reps the lactic acid burn kicks in and makes it that much harder. I notice that particularly when doing curls. The pain gets bad.

 

[LATS]

I don't understand that "going to failure" thing, it's not a must, at all.

If this statement was true, all the high volume trainers shouldn't grow, since you have to leave 1-2 reps in reserve.

Training to failure or not: Impact on hypertrophy and strength

For some, training to failure is optimal for muscle hypertrophy and strength since such method assumes that all available motor units are recruited. But for others, this method could even have a detrimental effect. What does science say about it?

www.sci-sport.com

"this meta-analysis seems to show that there is no significant difference in strength and/or hypertrophy between non-failure training and training to failure"

References​

1. Grgic J, Schoenfeld BJ, Orazem J and Sabol F. Effects of resistance training performed to repetition failure or non-failure on muscular strength and hypertrophy : a systematic review and meta-analysis. J Sport Health Sci, 2021

That said, I think that to save joints you have to reduce loads, so go for high volume (with 1-2 reps in reserve) and don't rush your set.
This way you will produce time under tension, metabolic stress AND cellular damage with a less weight.

The issue is pretty simple.. if the vast majority of people who claim to go to failure are truly not going to failure then how woukd they even come close to gauging reps in reserve.. ? They might think they are doing " 2 reps in reserve" when they are truly much further out. If one truly knows their own failure then RIR is fine.. but the vast majority of those that propose RIR are not even hitting failure when they are trying.. that even goes for pros and some high level competitors.. watch their videos.. they will tell you they went to failure.. put a gun to their head and they woukd get a few more.. so shooting for failure for most is already 2 RIR..

 

[LATS]

I agree. I still work in the higher rep range because I am older and my joints are achy. But, YES it is at first tedious and then gets downright torturous. I just noticed this article yesterday and he touches upon that very topic under "LOAD"

The Best Way to Build Muscle, According to Science

Eight professor-types analyze the research and come up with some solid recommendations on how to stop wasting time in the gym.

www.t-nation.com

We have to remember ( please forgive me I'm repeating myself a bit) that reps don't matter.. its load.. 70 percent load can give you 8 reps max or 15.. depending on how you perform the reps.. if joints are the issue ( with me yes) there are numerous ways to make a " lighter" load feel heavier.. muscle rounds / cluster sets.. slowing down the negatives.. etc.. get to a load that joint friendly and play with the rep performance.. ill do 1 set in a pumping fashion and fail at 15 or 16.. next set I'll do 3 second down .. pause .. 1 second up.. and fail at 8.. ill do the whole workout that way.. it adds to the " fun" of it and gives a good mix..