High test cycles

[Jeremy24]

Goal245 stated that the original doses he posted was the MINIMUM amount need to be at the National level. That's what made me angry. im not dumb and I know people push the limits, im guilty of it myself.

 

[1234trew]

As a bit of a history lesson on large test dosages for the masses:

We used to easily have access to three types of test in unlimited quantities (I trained at a major east coast hub). Sterris Cyp, Brovel T200 and Brovel T400.

Most people used the Brovel because it was much cheaper (80 a bottle versus 200 for the sterris). The T400 was quite painful so most of the guys would use a bottle of T200 per week during the offseason. Sure guys used less or more but this was the common bro dose.

A report came out that said the Brovel were underdosed by approximately 50%. This never made much sense to me as logic said that if the T400 was really 200mg why did it hurt so badly?

After the report came out the price on the Brovel responded by going down. The Sterris also dried up a bit. So a lot of the bros decided that the only logical course of action was to use two bottles of T200 per week, this kicked off a phase of "more is better" through the industry.

 

[Jeremy24]

As a bit of a history lesson on large test dosages for the masses:

We used to easily have access to three types of test in unlimited quantities (I trained at a major east coast hub). Sterris Cyp, Brovel T200 and Brovel T400.

Most people used the Brovel because it was much cheaper (80 a bottle versus 200 for the sterris). The T400 was quite painful so most of the guys would use a bottle of T200 per week during the offseason. Sure guys used less or more but this was the common bro dose.

A report came out that said the Brovel were underdosed by approximately 50%. This never made much sense to me as logic said that if the T400 was really 200mg why did it hurt so badly?



After the report came out the price on the Brovel responded by going down. The Sterris also dried up a bit. So a lot of the bros decided that the only logical course of action was to use two bottles of T200 per week, this kicked off a phase of "more is better" through the industry.

Personally I think the "more is better" menatility is just our society. If 500mgs gets me here 5000mgs will get me here.....if a medium fry is good, why not get a large...that's why we see 64 oz pop at gas stations for 75 cents and why we are the way we are in general as a society...not just bodybuilding but people as a whole...My point was this there are other ways to get there besides high dosing...do high doses work? hell yes but at what cost. I understand that a lot of the guys on this site are 18,19,21,25 etc. I promise right now you think "I wanna be huge and a pro etc etc" and "I don't care what it takes to get there, the conciquences blah blah" but one day not far down the road, you will care and (god forbid) when health problems occur, if they do. Youll regret the decisions you made, youll wish you wouldn't have made the choices you made or anyone made, that altered their life in a terrible way.

Or there is another road you can take, which most veterans of this board do. Take it as far as you can in a healthy manner, live it, breathe it, put your all into it, enjoy the hell out of it, and if your never a pro or whatever then so be it. Because there is a life after bodybuilding, that you will want to be around for.

 

[goal245]

Here is my experience with "high doses", this was under the guidance of a well know coach.

Last 4 weeks before a show:

1500 test (coach recommended about 1200)
700 tren (coach recommended 700)
700 mast (coach recommend 350 or 700 dont remember)
800 eq (coach recommended 800)
50 winnstrol ed (coach recomended 50)
30 halotestin (coach recomended 30)
100mcg t3 (coach recomended 100mcg)
100mcg clen (coach recomended 100mcg)
10iu gh (coach recomended 6iu)

The previous 8 weeks of diet the tren was 350 and I was taking dbol instead of winstrol.

I know several people that used this coach, some as light as 180lbs and some as heavy and 260, all ran the same cycle. This was just for some local show, maybe the doses are higher if getting ready for a bigger show

In the offeason the coach recommends:

1200 test
350 tren or 600 decal or 600 eq
6iu gh
10iu insulin

Anyone that tells me they get ready for a show on less than what I have posted above needs to invest in a coach that doesn't lie and knows what is going on.

 

[Jeremy24]

Here is my experience with "high doses", this was under the guidance of a well know coach.

Last 4 weeks before a show:

1500 test (coach recommended about 1200)
700 tren (coach recommended 700)
700 mast (coach recommend 350 or 700 dont remember)
800 eq (coach recommended 800)
50 winnstrol ed (coach recomended 50)
30 halotestin (coach recomended 30)
100mcg t3 (coach recomended 100mcg)
100mcg clen (coach recomended 100mcg)
10iu gh (coach recomended 6iu)

The previous 8 weeks of diet the tren was 350 and I was taking dbol instead of winstrol.

I know several people that used this coach, some as light as 180lbs and some as heavy and 260, all ran the same cycle. This was just for some local show, maybe the doses are higher if getting ready for a bigger show

In the offeason the coach recommends:

1200 test
350 tren or 600 decal or 600 eq
6iu gh
10iu insulin

Anyone that tells me they get ready for a show on less than what I have posted above needs to invest in a coach that doesn't lie and knows what is going on.

I prepped on less, way less and competed at 224 lbs.

any coach that outs everyone on the same cycle, shouldn't be listened to period.

 

[Jeremy24]

im a shitty bodybuilder

but this was

1cc prop
1cc ace
1cc mast

mon weds Friday

oral winny 50mgs last two weeks with no injectables.

 

[Jeremy24]

same show same dose. actually the first 8 weeks of prep was 500 test 400 eq

 

[goal245]

same show same dose. actually the first 8 weeks of prep was 500 test 400 eq

How are you going to add 40lbs of stage weight?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I should add though people very often forget how they got to 250-300 pounds and lean. Getting there and maintaining are two very different things. I am nothing special with poor genetics for bb but even I can maintain fairly well for 3 months going completely off (no trt). Guys who have their shit together of course they can maintain well on 100-400mg test in the offseason. I know a few guys using approx 250mg test for 6 months and they soften up a little but they still look great. Then when they jump back on they obviously respond much better.

This is something that I ALWAYS think about every time one of these threads come up. And this is because the board is usually so split on discussions like these....we have several posters with no pics talking about how you need 5g to turn pro. And then we hear from our well-respected posters who chime in saying low-dosed is the way to go.

Obviously from a health perspective low-dosed is the way to go. But...in these conversations we are USUALLY talking about the big boys in the HW and SHW classes. And it's as simple as this. If you DONT have insane genetics, you are going to need to blast 2g+ for a couple years juuuust to get to the right offseason weight and just to be able to have your body be OK being 250lbs at 7%. It's that simple.

Dusty is my favorite posters here but to assume that he got to 300lbs in the offseason running TRT is bat shit crazy. ONCE YOU GET THERE, you can maintain and make good progress with low dosages and reallllly dialing in your diet and training—just like JM and Dusty say. But in order to move up weight classes and be competitive in the amateur ranks, you haaaaave to blast high level drugs. Now once you're a pro and you have this size and a new set point, you can lower everything. But getting there is the fucking battle.

 

[goal245]

This is something that I ALWAYS think about every time one of these threads come up. And this is because the board is usually so split on discussions like these....we have several posters with no pics talking about how you need 5g to turn pro. And then we hear from our well-respected posters who chime in saying low-dosed is the way to go.

Obviously from a health perspective low-dosed is the way to go. But...in these conversations we are USUALLY talking about the big boys in the HW and SHW classes. And it's as simple as this. If you DONT have insane genetics, you are going to need to blast 2g+ for a couple years juuuust to get to the right offseason weight and just to be able to have your body be OK being 250lbs at 7%. It's that simple.

Dusty is my favorite posters here but to assume that he got to 300lbs in the offseason running TRT is bat shit crazy. ONCE YOU GET THERE, you can maintain and make good progress with low dosages and reallllly dialing in your diet and training—just like JM and Dusty say. But in order to move up weight classes and be competitive in the amateur ranks, you haaaaave to blast high level drugs. Now once you're a pro and you have this size and a new set point, you can lower everything. But getting there is the fucking battle.

I can maintain a pretty good 270-280 on 500mg test, In a shirt I look the same but with shirt off I look less full and workouts suck, that's probably why so many Olympia competitors don't even train after the show for 2-3 months

 

[Jeremy24]

How are you going to add 40lbs of stage weight?

im not going to, and never plan on it at 35

if I was going to I would do the same thing that got me from 175 lbs when I started to 255ish and leanish. time and concistency

 

[goal245]

im not going to, and never plan on it at 35

if I was going to I would do the same thing that got me from 175 lbs when I started to 255ish and leanish. time and concistency

If your goal isn't to be a pro then you definitely do not need to use more drugs, you look good competing just for fun.

But the pro level is a whole different game, the physique guys look bigger/fuller/leaner (even though they are lighter and shorter) than what you posted and I bet they are using more drugs too.

 

[Jeremy24]

If your goal isn't to be a pro then you definitely do not need to use more drugs, you look good competing just for fun.

But the pro level is a whole different game, the physique guys look bigger/fuller/leaner (even though they are lighter and shorter) than what you posted and I bet they are using more drugs too.

like I said before, IM A SHITTY BODYBUILDER. I don't have round muscle bellies, its hard work for me to get that lean, but I was cool with the 75 lbs I added to my frame. if they are using more drugs then good for them. ive actually found that mens physique guys use a ton of drugs bc a lot of them are misinformed by shitty coaches

my goal isn't to be pro or compete again. Ive been 100 percent clean for over a year now, still train hard, im decently lean at about 240lb, just about to start up trt at whatever my doctor gives me to ibcrease quality of life, I enjoy being in shape and being aggressive at the gym, but im a Family man these days and I build choppers

 

[goal245]

like I said before, IM A SHITTY BODYBUILDER. I don't have round muscle bellies, its hard work for me to get that lean, but I was cool with the 75 lbs I added to my frame. if they are using more drugs then good for them. ive actually found that mens physique guys use a ton of drugs bc a lot of them are misinformed by shitty coaches

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you used more drugs and did exactly what you did for this show (training and diet) you would have looked better

 

[Jeremy24]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you used more drugs and did exactly what you did for this show (training and diet) you would have looked better

thanks for stating the obvious, but there is also a point of diminishing returns. was I close to that point? no. im not disputing what u said. But I can guarantee you also, that if pursueing the national level was my goal, I wouldn't have to use what you said or even close it.

more drugs still wont make my insertions better, wont change my genetics and would just make me a larger version of a shitty genetic bodybuilder.

do you fucking get it yet?

 

[Gunsmith]

im a shitty bodybuilder

but this was

1cc prop
1cc ace
1cc mast

mon weds Friday

oral winny 50mgs last two weeks with no injectables.

What was you height and weight for this show??
I would not say you're shitty by any means.!!!

 

[Jeremy24]

I honestly don't care what you put into your body. Just don't come on here and throw huge numbers out for someone to use when you are clueless. I can tell by your post. Everything you have stated, has been "what some well known coach" has told you or fabricated bullshit that you made up in your head, thinking that's what people who are better than you have to be using.

theres people on here, not saying the OP is, that will blindly follow what they read. That's on them, yes. But its on you when you send their mindset in that direction.

 

[Jeremy24]

What was you height and weight for this show??
I would not say you're shitty by any means.!!!

6'1, weighed in at 224...weight came down overnight and woke up morning of at 217-219ish?

and thank you Gunsmith

 

[GreenTLB6]

This is something that I ALWAYS think about every time one of these threads come up. And this is because the board is usually so split on discussions like these....we have several posters with no pics talking about how you need 5g to turn pro. And then we hear from our well-respected posters who chime in saying low-dosed is the way to go.

Obviously from a health perspective low-dosed is the way to go. But...in these conversations we are USUALLY talking about the big boys in the HW and SHW classes. And it's as simple as this. If you DONT have insane genetics, you are going to need to blast 2g+ for a couple years juuuust to get to the right offseason weight and just to be able to have your body be OK being 250lbs at 7%. It's that simple.

Dusty is my favorite posters here but to assume that he got to 300lbs in the offseason running TRT is bat shit crazy. ONCE YOU GET THERE, you can maintain and make good progress with low dosages and reallllly dialing in your diet and training—just like JM and Dusty say. But in order to move up weight classes and be competitive in the amateur ranks, you haaaaave to blast high level drugs. Now once you're a pro and you have this size and a new set point, you can lower everything. But getting there is the fucking battle.

That last paragraph is a huge pet peeve of mine. No one wants to talk what it took to get there (food and drugs) but everyone that is there has no problem screaming TRT off Season. I'm all for it (TRT off season) but that's after most of the size is accumulated through training, food, and drugs. I think I saw John post about eating like 2000 calories a day right now. Does anyone think he had to eat more than that to build NEW muscle. Yes. But to maintain NO. Same with Matt P right now in what he's doing. He's eating nothing and taking a bit of Var. I def think your don't need as much food or drugs to maintain old size. New size is a different story. Plus I have seen some of these clients off Season programs and they aren't 2000 calories and only 37.5mg Var.
I'm saying this and I'm not a huge dose guy. I have found I respond much better when focusing on progressive overload and eating what my body needs to grow. Only increasing doses off Season when I need to buy honestly I haven't got there so the off season dose stays he same.

 

[Humana Life Group]

Let me ask you a question and this is a serious question. Why in all hell would you ever strive to be a pro bodybuilder? Virtually all of them are broke or trying somehow to make ends meet. It is the worst paying accomplishment probably in the history of sport (especially when you factor in health). The days of companies paying big contracts are gone.

When I first saw Kai Green advertising for training and diet programs that pretty much summed it up for me. He is running low on cash I assume.