• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
esquel
YMSGIF210x65-Banner
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

HIIT vs LISS for Heart Health

I really wish moderators would get rid of this troll, he is insulting, irrelevant, misleading, and incredibly annoying. I post on PM much LESS because of Jeff.

As one of the guys that basically just reads a lot around here, I'm gonna say this would be an unwelcome proposition. The links back to the heart health thread are invaluable for a guy like me trying to get his blood pressure under control and every one of his posts have citations to real published studies that allow you to read for yourself instead of more of the same old posted bro science BS I often see.

By the way, I read all of your posts as well and appreciate your differing stance, but you start to lose me when you want to start bashing someone that doesn't agree with you who posts facts and studies far more often than personal opinion.
 
Last edited:
All of my information is VERY low level and easy to verify, all you'd have to do is google it. You expect everyone to take the time to site all their information just for your lazy ass.

I really wish moderators would get rid of this troll, he is insulting, irrelevant, misleading, and incredibly annoying. I post on PM much LESS because of Jeff.

He is definitely a bit too combative but his info is very good since it's clear he reads a lot of clinical data. I just accept the verbal beating if I say something that he doesn't agree with because I know it's not personal. He's helped direct me in the right place when I've asked him personal questions, which I appreciate.

I wish YOU would post MORE actually :)
 
A typical example would be a bodybuilder sitting on a spinning bike for 60 minutes while checking his phone, at no point being out of breath. Or waddling around on a treadmill at a glacial pace. As I said above, this kind of activity has benefits, especially during contest prep. But w.r.t. heart health it's is greatly inferior to more intensive exercise.

I would consider 60% of your maximum heart rate as the minimum to consider medium intensity exercise. So for a 30 year old bodybuilder that would mean a heart rate of roughly 120. As a rule of thumb you should be out of breath, but still be able maintain a constant pace.

Ok thanks. I've always tried to get my HR to 130 or above. Appreciate the clarification.
 
I like both, Jeff and Kaladryn, I really like anyone who wants to share information and is not just an egocentric asshole wanting to inflate himself above the rest.

That said, I have not yet seen the reason or need of cardio HIIT in lifters or bodybuilders.
 
I like both, Jeff and Kaladryn, I really like anyone who wants to share information and is not just an egocentric asshole wanting to inflate himself above the rest.

That said, I have not yet seen the reason or need of cardio HIIT in lifters or bodybuilders.

If you read B Boy's Chicago thread, you will see that his coach has him doing I think it is 2 HIT sessions a week along with his other LISS training. Contest prep.

Personally I think the best scenario is combining both types of cardio.
 
If you read B Boy's Chicago thread, you will see that his coach has him doing I think it is 2 HIT sessions a week along with his other LISS training. Contest prep.

Personally I think the best scenario is combining both types of cardio.
I agree, I thinks it's best to combine both types to reap maximum benefits.
 
If you want to learn about HIIT training, you have to look outside of bodybuilding to sports like track, swimming, and cycling.

The main problem with HIIT training is that it very taxing to recover from.

The best part about being a bodybuilder is that you do HIIT training every day in the gym when you train.

Your heart needs two things, HIIT train and LISS training(Or perhaps optimally, moderate intensity steady state). If you ONLY give it HIIT training, you will suffer from a lack of blood volume and overly high hematocrit, you will also not lower your blood pressure adequately. As one semi-famous cardiologist (he did the physical fitness exams for the secret service) once told me: "Between intervals, the heart is in 'free fall' and isn't contracting hard, that is why you need steady state to lower blood pressure, lowering blood pressure is about more than your heart, it is about your whole cardiovascular system." I'm paraphrasing but that is about exactly what he said. I've spoken to many other doctors, one in particular who had a deep understanding of the heart and blood pressure (an anesthesiologist) who agreed.

Anyhow, all I need is a lot of personal experience and a blood pressure cuff, I can tell that 20min per day of steady-state works better than anything else I do to keep my blood pressure down with the absolute minimal inroads into my recovery.

Would my heart be in even better shape if I did additional HIIT cardio? I'm sure it would, HIIT cardio is extremely beneficial up to about 1 hour per day, however, I hate cardio and I have no interested in limiting my ability to recover (and thus limit muscle gained) for that tinny bit of extra cardio function.

If you understand what HIIT training is (Anaerobic threshold training with the name ripped off from HIT training), then you know that we all have very high anaerobic thresholds from weight training, HIIT training isn't what most bodybuilders need the most, in fact it can be counterproductive in a growth or maintaince phase.

edit: most people I see in the gym do not train hard enough to be any form of anaerobic threshold training, but I do, and a handful of others do. I would assume most people here do but I might be wrong.

you would have to modify the typcial bodybuilding routines big time to make it comparable to HIIT in my opinion. The only sessions that come somewhere close would be legs and back imo if you cut your rest periods.
About Jeff.. i also had my experience with him but all in all, his posts are informative and even if he sometimes pisses one off, his knowledge cant be denied..
,y own experience about heart health:
2014-2015 i had a low EF about 44%. Went to cardiologists and my heart was also dilated (they called it dilatative cardiomyopathy).
during this time, i did next to no cardio and was 104kg, quite fatty (23%+)
2016, i have started to incoporate cardio (LISS, 30min 4-5 times a week pwo or early morning) + started to cut fat.
went back mid 2016 (with 87kg) for echo and my EF got up to 53%. Also, the size went down (i am not 100% sure which measurement it was, went from being 62mm to 57mm)
--> in my opinion, the best thing for the heart is to keep bodyweight down. Ofcourse, cardio helps but bodyweight seems to be more imprtant imo
and the docs also said it is an important factor
 
Last edited:
If you read B Boy's Chicago thread, you will see that his coach has him doing I think it is 2 HIT sessions a week along with his other LISS training. Contest prep.

Personally I think the best scenario is combining both types of cardio.

Yes, look at my first post in this thread.

If you want to burn fat is a good tool, but b-boy still has more LISS sessions than HIIT.

But I am talking about the advantages that HIIT can have for the heart or the state of form, which is the original theme of the thread. I'm not seeing the need for it when you already lift weights.
 
you would have to modify the typcial bodybuilding routines big time to make it comparable to HIIT in my opinion. The only sessions that come somewhere close would be legs and back imo if you cut your rest periods.
About Jeff.. i also had my experience with him but all in all, his posts are informative and even if he sometimes pisses one off, his knowledge cant be denied..
,y own experience about heart health:
2014-2015 i had a low EF about 44%. Went to cardiologists and my heart was also dilated (they called it dilatative cardiomyopathy).
during this time, i did next to no cardio and was 104kg, quite fatty (23%+)
2016, i have started to incoporate cardio (LISS, 30min 4-5 times a week pwo or early morning) + started to cut fat.
went back mid 2016 (with 87kg) for echo and my EF got up to 53%. Also, the size went down (i am not 100% sure which measurement it was, went from being 62mm to 57mm)
--> in my opinion, the best thing for the heart is to keep bodyweight down. Ofcourse, cardio helps but bodyweight seems to be more imprtant imo
and the docs also said it is an important factor

Do you happen to know how large your heart chambers were when you had dilated cardiomyopathy? Curious how large the measurements have to be before the EF drops.
 
I'm not seeing the need for it when you already lift weights.

When we train lifting exercises or similar to repetitions of medians for highs, we train the heart in the same way as the runner or swimmer when they make stretches at high speed cyclically. We do not need to repeat that training outside of weights.

And when we train bodybuilding (machines, dumbbells, cables, etc.) we give the heart a continuous exercise of less intensity, similar to walking somewhat intensely or running moderately. Then, we do not need either, to maintain our cardiorespiratory system within healthy and functional patterns for our type of life, exercises such as walking, running, etc.

This does not mean that these exercises can not be useful and necessary for other types of athletes, with other objectives.
 
When we train lifting exercises or similar to repetitions of medians for highs, we train the heart in the same way as the runner or swimmer when they make stretches at high speed cyclically. We do not need to repeat that training outside of weights.

And when we train bodybuilding (machines, dumbbells, cables, etc.) we give the heart a continuous exercise of less intensity, similar to walking somewhat intensely or running moderately. Then, we do not need either, to maintain our cardiorespiratory system within healthy and functional patterns for our type of life, exercises such as walking, running, etc.

This does not mean that these exercises can not be useful and necessary for other types of athletes, with other objectives.


Are you making this statement for all age groups? I used to use cardio really only when getting ready for a show. Then I used it during cutting phases when I got too sloppy. But at 50, I am having a hard time keeping some of my markers in check even though I haven't really changed much else. Therefore, I am putting cardio back in as a priority and see what that does even though I am lifting intensely 5 days a week currently.
 
Are you making this statement for all age groups? I used to use cardio really only when getting ready for a show. Then I used it during cutting phases when I got too sloppy. But at 50, I am having a hard time keeping some of my markers in check even though I haven't really changed much else. Therefore, I am putting cardio back in as a priority and see what that does even though I am lifting intensely 5 days a week currently.

If your diet is good and you do not have much body fat, anyone will do well with 3-4 weight sessions and 2-3 sessions of LISS cardio. Each session should be enough with 30-45 minutes.

I do more cardio to cut, but in off season I still like to keep some sessions. Not for heart or health purposes, but because I think it helps the recovery of weight training, and because mentally and psychologically, its incredible tool.
 
Here is a good tactic if you just want to be a better overall athlete

Day 1: full body weight training (bench press, squat, deadlift, pull ups, shoulder press)
Day 2: HIIT (5-10 intervals depending on the intensity) or even body weight HIIT sometimes
Day 3: 20 minutes moderate steady state
Repeat
 
Do you happen to know how large your heart chambers were when you had dilated cardiomyopathy? Curious how large the measurements have to be before the EF drops.

i dont know all measurements but i can take a look when i am at home this or tomorrow evening.
i just know that LVDD was around 63mm which is too big.
Wall thickness etc were okay which is important too.
 
i dont know all measurements but i can take a look when i am at home this or tomorrow evening.
i just know that LVDD was around 63mm which is too big.
Wall thickness etc were okay which is important too.

Yea I'm curious since my heart measurements are always slightly above the normal ranges but they always tell me the size of my heart is normal. I imagine I have very little room for error.
 
Yea I'm curious since my heart measurements are always slightly above the normal ranges but they always tell me the size of my heart is normal. I imagine I have very little room for error.

found it:
Aorta (AO) = 35mm, LA left chamber = 37mm, LVDD (left ventricle diastolic diameter(?)) = 64mm, LVSD (systolic(?)) = 49mm, IVS = 9mm,
heart wall (HW) = 9mm , EF = 46%, TAPSE = 22mm
EF biplan = 41%

this was not the all-time worst measurements but second worst.

last year i had the best cardio diagnosis ever which is everything is fine up to EF which is now borderline okay (i think it was 55% and this is the minimum value to be considered "okay". Below 55% it is minimal restricted, restricted, strongly restricted...)
 
found it:
Aorta (AO) = 35mm, LA left chamber = 37mm, LVDD (left ventricle diastolic diameter(?)) = 64mm, LVSD (systolic(?)) = 49mm, IVS = 9mm,
heart wall (HW) = 9mm , EF = 46%, TAPSE = 22mm
EF biplan = 41%

this was not the all-time worst measurements but second worst.

last year i had the best cardio diagnosis ever which is everything is fine up to EF which is now borderline okay (i think it was 55% and this is the minimum value to be considered "okay". Below 55% it is minimal restricted, restricted, strongly restricted...)

Thanks for sharing. I think they used different measurements for ours since mine looks a little different.

For EF, make absolutely damn sure you're taking Ubiquinol (with selenium), D-Ribose, and others. which have proven many times over and over to improve EF if you aren't already.
 
Thanks for sharing. I think they used different measurements for ours since mine looks a little different.

For EF, make absolutely damn sure you're taking Ubiquinol (with selenium), D-Ribose, and others. which have proven many times over and over to improve EF if you aren't already.

yes, i do take all of the mentioned (d-ribose with creatine due to some updake synergy, 200mg ubi, also some arjuvedia caps).
i am sure supplements help but i am also sure a good cardio regime and keeping bodyweight "low" is far more important ...
 
yes, i do take all of the mentioned (d-ribose with creatine due to some updake synergy, 200mg ubi, also some arjuvedia caps).
i am sure supplements help but i am also sure a good cardio regime and keeping bodyweight "low" is far more important ...

Both very important of course. Try adding selenium to your ubiquinol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29641571
 

Forum statistics

Total page views
558,112,624
Threads
135,769
Messages
2,768,872
Members
160,345
Latest member
Peterwilliam
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yourmuscleshop210x131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top