How do you approach offseason and offseason to prep transition

[MajinBoo]

It’s nice to see I’m not wildly off with my thinking

I know I keep referencing the UK scene but that’s what I see primarily and I think we created the spreadsheet bodybuilder/coach

Like it’s super standard that in January for example for a coach to map out your full 12 month plan like
6 weeks mini diet
14 week offseason
8 week health phase
6 week pre prep phase
20 week prep
Etc etc

Which I realise if your competing you need some form of timeline but even for none competitors this will be the same just a diet instead of prep

Just seems backwards to plan when and how long exactly you will need a “health phase” (which in itself is amusing), a pre prep, prep (whatever the fuck that is) and everything else like why wouldn’t
You just either be doing all you can to stay in a growth “phase” for as long as possible until you want to diet or prep

99.9999% of us never achieve the size we want or need if competitive yet we box ourselves (or our coaches do) into these 3-4 month offseasons titrating our test from 150-300mg and our primo from 200mg-1g and expect to be “massif bro”

I think as a broad overall thing it’s obvious what it takes to get huge (minus the #1 thing genetics) but because it takes 5/10/15 years no one can be arsed and they need instant gratification hence why men’s physique classes and classic physique run at probably 20-1 against open class BB competitor wise at most uk amateur shows and probably 100-1 as an industry general

If you can step on stage at 180lbs and be competetive it’s gonna take wayyyy less time than needing to be 250lbs

Going off track but guess it just sums up society as a whole “what reward can I get asap for minimal effort”

We need to make bodybuilding great again

I wear this T-shirt to every bodybuilding event I go to , to make my point

I am curious to know if you have worked with any coach that usually mentions those timeframes as a reference when asked in a podcast or instagram Q&A
I know how coaches like Calum, KUba and others work and have been close to some of his athletes. And those timeframes are not fixed and usually adjusted according to the athlete needs, the date of the planned competition, etc
Dont take what is said to a large audience as hard rules. they are just generic statements to not say "it depends"

 

[traininsane11]

I am curious to know if you have worked with any coach that usually mentions those timeframes as a reference when asked in a podcast or instagram Q&A
I know how coaches like Calum, KUba and others work and have been close to some of his athletes. And those timeframes are not fixed and usually adjusted according to the athlete needs, the date of the planned competition, etc
Dont take what is said to a large audience as hard rules. they are just generic statements to not say "it depends"

I have but those weren’t exact referenced timeframes as it doesn’t even add up to a year but just a generic outline of how things are often mapped out in terms of “phases”

 

[MajinBoo]

I have but those weren’t exact referenced timeframes as it doesn’t even add up to a year but just a generic outline of how things are often mapped out in terms of “phases”

Got it. In my opinion it will always depend on several factors: goal, body composition, health markers, etc but to be honest that is when having a coach matters. Somebody who can look from outside, evaluate where you are and the end goal (both short and mid term) and define the best way to achieve it

 

[Massivekaos]

I’ve been saying this for years. Sure, my approach has evolved a bit over time, but for me, if you’re a bodybuilder and you truly live this lifestyle, there’s really no such thing as a strict off-season or prep
You train all year to look good. There’s no real reason to get fat in the off-season or to need constant mini-cuts. If you live the lifestyle year-round and don’t eat huge calorie surpluses just to add useless weight and push bodyweight to 300–320+ lbs, you don’t need that to grow real muscle or build a better physique.
I’m glad to see that more people are starting to understand this and are changing how they approach the off-season. The idea is simple: you live the same way all year. The only time you really need a hard cut is when you’re preparing for a show. If you stay in good shape year-round, 8–10 weeks is enough to be stage-ready.
That means staying lean all year, around 8–9% body fat, no excessive water retention, good blood pressure, good health markers, and no need to push gear hard all the time. There are phases where you push more, and phases where you pull back.

For example, during contest prep, especially toward the end, you use harsher compounds like tren or orals and higher doses. The only time I really drop gear very low – sometimes to around 500 mg total, either just test or test with Primo, EQ, or Mast – is right after a show. Even though most of my athletes have good blood work post-show, I still lower doses for at least 4–6 weeks to give the body a break from high hormones and oxidative stress that doesn’t always show up in blood tests.
During that period, if someone can afford it, I like to run GH high and add IGF. The idea is to use different growth pathways, not just androgens. Post-show, the body is extremely responsive and wants to grow, even on lower androgen doses. Add high GH, IGF, a good insulin protocol, and you can get a great rebound while staying very healthy. Later, you can slowly increase doses again if needed.

Of course, this looks a bit different for someone who already has enough size and just wants to refine their physique versus someone who still needs to add 15 kg of muscle. But the differences are not as extreme as people think.

I could talk about this all day, but the reality is that most people’s mindset probably won’t change anyway.

How do you approach this on the other side of things? Makes perfect sense with regards to end of prep and post show but do you do something similar for someone who is peak offseason?

Let’s say you have a superheavy weight that needs 15kg of muscle to win a national level show and just finished up a 20-24 week offseason push with 1.5g total anabolic load,blood work is perfect and conditioning still in a good spot do you just keep going with no break from high hormones or oxidative stress until a prep phase? Even if an actual prep would be 2 years away

This is someone who wins every overall at regionals so no point in competing again until you have national winning physique so no need to contest prep for a while. Do you back off for a while on the anabolics to get that break but keep the food high or go into a mini cut to get the break then catch a rebound?

(I know this hypothetical sounds like ripped from Dawids podcasts so sorry about that )

 

[luki7788]

How do you approach this on the other side of things? Makes perfect sense with regards to end of prep and post show but do you do something similar for someone who is peak offseason?

Let’s say you have a superheavy weight that needs 15kg of muscle to win a national level show and just finished up a 20-24 week offseason push with 1.5g total anabolic load,blood work is perfect and conditioning still in a good spot do you just keep going with no break from high hormones or oxidative stress until a prep phase? Even if an actual prep would be 2 years away

This is someone who wins every overall at regionals so no point in competing again until you have national winning physique so no need to contest prep for a while. Do you back off for a while on the anabolics to get that break but keep the food high or go into a mini cut to get the break then catch a rebound?

(I know this hypothetical sounds like ripped from Dawids podcasts so sorry about that )

How do you claim you're not experiencing oxidative stress? It's impossible to measure, but it's clear that anything in excess—food, hormones, training—causes significant stress on the body, so even if your blood tests are perfect, it doesn't mean your body is feeling great.

I speak from experience. If we were talking three or four years ago, I would definitely say there's no point in lowering your gear or food intake, but with experience and what I've experienced and seen with many of my clients, I've significantly changed my mind on this matter.

 

[traininsane11]

How do you approach this on the other side of things? Makes perfect sense with regards to end of prep and post show but do you do something similar for someone who is peak offseason?

Let’s say you have a superheavy weight that needs 15kg of muscle to win a national level show and just finished up a 20-24 week offseason push with 1.5g total anabolic load,blood work is perfect and conditioning still in a good spot do you just keep going with no break from high hormones or oxidative stress until a prep phase? Even if an actual prep would be 2 years away

This is someone who wins every overall at regionals so no point in competing again until you have national winning physique so no need to contest prep for a while. Do you back off for a while on the anabolics to get that break but keep the food high or go into a mini cut to get the break then catch a rebound?

(I know this hypothetical sounds like ripped from Dawids podcasts so sorry about that )

How do you claim you're not experiencing oxidative stress? It's impossible to measure, but it's clear that anything in excess—food, hormones, training—causes significant stress on the body, so even if your blood tests are perfect, it doesn't mean your body is feeling great.

I speak from experience. If we were talking three or four years ago, I would definitely say there's no point in lowering your gear or food intake, but with experience and what I've experienced and seen with many of my clients, I've significantly changed my mind on this matter.

Interestingly they cover some of this here on this recent podcast

Personally I believe we do need periods of lowered oxidative stress as this is a
Marathon not a sprint of course this is adjusted based on our level and goals and will be more extreme the higher you go but I don’t think going at 100% indefinitely is the answer for any level/goal if you just keep going with “more” constantly then also you get more stress and past a certain point our bodies won’t progress no matter how much “more” we keep doing

 

[Massivekaos]

How do you claim you're not experiencing oxidative stress? It's impossible to measure, but it's clear that anything in excess—food, hormones, training—causes significant stress on the body, so even if your blood tests are perfect, it doesn't mean your body is feeling great.

I speak from experience. If we were talking three or four years ago, I would definitely say there's no point in lowering your gear or food intake, but with experience and what I've experienced and seen with many of my clients, I've significantly changed my mind on this matter.

I think you misunderstand me I’m not saying I’m not experiencing oxidative stress! I was just asking at what point and what method do you use to pull back at the end of an offseason push when oxidative stress is likely high if there is no plans to compete in the near future but want to keep progression of size. Do you lower anabolics similiar to post show rebound but continue in a push phase or do you do a mini cut to give body a break for excess compounds?

 

[luki7788]

I think you misunderstand me I’m not saying I’m not experiencing oxidative stress! I was just asking at what point and what method do you use to pull back at the end of an offseason push when oxidative stress is likely high if there is no plans to compete in the near future but want to keep progression of size. Do you lower anabolics similiar to post show rebound but continue in a push phase or do you do a mini cut to give body a break for excess compounds?

I understand you 100%, but you also need to understand my way.
In my system, I don’t like this idea that you must “end the off-season” like it is some fixed date. For me, you are a bodybuilder all year. You should look good all year.
The only real “cutting phase” is when you decide to compete. Then yes, you need real contest prep. If I coach you, we usually don’t need more than 12 weeks to get you ready, because you already stay in good shape. Most of my athletes stay under 10% body fat all year. Not bragging, just how I work.
But to be perfect on show day, you need time to make skin very thin and details very sharp. That usually takes around 10–12 weeks. And I always like to have extra time in case of problems (sick, injury, life things). So I prefer 14–16 weeks total for prep.
So why “stop off-season” if you are not doing a show?

What I see often: after 12–15 weeks of pushing hard (higher androgens, hard training, high food), you start to feel tired. Appetite can still be good, insulin sensitivity can still be ok, but progress is not as easy anymore. Body is just stressed. Nervous system is tired, recovery is worse. Also stress from high hormones and high calories. You can’t really measure all this perfectly, but you feel it.
In this moment I don’t “end growth”. I change the way of growth.
We drop anabolics and go to lower androgen phase. And at the same time I like to push another growth pathway: GH and IGF. Often I increase GH and add IGF (LR3 or DES). So you still can improve, just with different tools, not only androgens.
Also in this phase I reduce food a bit. Not because you need to get leaner (you are already lean), but to lower stress and make the body sensitive again. You will not lose much muscle, but you will feel fresher. Training feels better, health markers usually look better, and after this your body responds stronger again when we push.

Hard to explain only by theory, because every person is different, and I coach each athlete a bit different.

 

[Massivekaos]

I understand you 100%, but you also need to understand my way.
In my system, I don’t like this idea that you must “end the off-season” like it is some fixed date. For me, you are a bodybuilder all year. You should look good all year.
The only real “cutting phase” is when you decide to compete. Then yes, you need real contest prep. If I coach you, we usually don’t need more than 12 weeks to get you ready, because you already stay in good shape. Most of my athletes stay under 10% body fat all year. Not bragging, just how I work.
But to be perfect on show day, you need time to make skin very thin and details very sharp. That usually takes around 10–12 weeks. And I always like to have extra time in case of problems (sick, injury, life things). So I prefer 14–16 weeks total for prep.
So why “stop off-season” if you are not doing a show?

What I see often: after 12–15 weeks of pushing hard (higher androgens, hard training, high food), you start to feel tired. Appetite can still be good, insulin sensitivity can still be ok, but progress is not as easy anymore. Body is just stressed. Nervous system is tired, recovery is worse. Also stress from high hormones and high calories. You can’t really measure all this perfectly, but you feel it.
In this moment I don’t “end growth”. I change the way of growth.
We drop anabolics and go to lower androgen phase. And at the same time I like to push another growth pathway: GH and IGF. Often I increase GH and add IGF (LR3 or DES). So you still can improve, just with different tools, not only androgens.
Also in this phase I reduce food a bit. Not because you need to get leaner (you are already lean), but to lower stress and make the body sensitive again. You will not lose much muscle, but you will feel fresher. Training feels better, health markers usually look better, and after this your body responds stronger again when we push.

Hard to explain only by theory, because every person is different, and I coach each athlete a bit different.

Thank you for going in depth with this response I really appreciate it! I completely understand what you’re saying now.

 

[traininsane11]

I understand you 100%, but you also need to understand my way.
In my system, I don’t like this idea that you must “end the off-season” like it is some fixed date. For me, you are a bodybuilder all year. You should look good all year.
The only real “cutting phase” is when you decide to compete. Then yes, you need real contest prep. If I coach you, we usually don’t need more than 12 weeks to get you ready, because you already stay in good shape. Most of my athletes stay under 10% body fat all year. Not bragging, just how I work.
But to be perfect on show day, you need time to make skin very thin and details very sharp. That usually takes around 10–12 weeks. And I always like to have extra time in case of problems (sick, injury, life things). So I prefer 14–16 weeks total for prep.
So why “stop off-season” if you are not doing a show?

What I see often: after 12–15 weeks of pushing hard (higher androgens, hard training, high food), you start to feel tired. Appetite can still be good, insulin sensitivity can still be ok, but progress is not as easy anymore. Body is just stressed. Nervous system is tired, recovery is worse. Also stress from high hormones and high calories. You can’t really measure all this perfectly, but you feel it.
In this moment I don’t “end growth”. I change the way of growth.
We drop anabolics and go to lower androgen phase. And at the same time I like to push another growth pathway: GH and IGF. Often I increase GH and add IGF (LR3 or DES). So you still can improve, just with different tools, not only androgens.
Also in this phase I reduce food a bit. Not because you need to get leaner (you are already lean), but to lower stress and make the body sensitive again. You will not lose much muscle, but you will feel fresher. Training feels better, health markers usually look better, and after this your body responds stronger again when we push.

Hard to explain only by theory, because every person is different, and I coach each athlete a bit different.

I’m one of the most reluctant guys to “pull back” and viewed anything less as going backwards and more is the only option but even I have come to see giving the body small rests from hammering every aspect isn’t going backwards it’s preserving your ability to go forward

Before I thought if you just keep increasing something (food/drugs) you will just keep progressing but firstly that has a ceiling so you run out of runway and secondly once your body needs a break if you just add more stress you’ll probably regress if anything

By taking a timed step back it will allow you to take 2 steps forward and preserve health and progress

I’m not saying 12 weeks at trt every 12-16 weeks if you’re a serious competitor maybe it’s a cruise for 6-8 weeks 2x per year but it’s also not also not just staying at ever increasing peak dosages year round

It’s hard to see the bigger picture sometimes but when you break it down and view it objectively it becomes more clear

This of course is just my view but I am extremely progress driven at all costs so if I can accept this then most others should be able to

 

[kuba]

I am curious to know if you have worked with any coach that usually mentions those timeframes as a reference when asked in a podcast or instagram Q&A
I know how coaches like Calum, KUba and others work and have been close to some of his athletes. And those timeframes are not fixed and usually adjusted according to the athlete needs, the date of the planned competition, etc
Dont take what is said to a large audience as hard rules. they are just generic statements to not say "it dependst

this is not the case, i build out a timeline to create a vision for the process and break down the year into goals. timelines then change if needed based of athletes response

 

[MajinBoo]

this is not the case, i build out a timeline to create a vision for the process and break down the year into goals. timelines then change if needed based of athletes response

I think both said the same but the way I expressed myself as a non-native might be interpreted otherwise
what I want to say is that it's not 14week offseason, followed by 8 week health phase, etc for everybody

 

[hawkmoon]

this is not the case, i build out a timeline to create a vision for the process and break down the year into goals. timelines then change if needed based of athletes response

Classic Project Management. It works.

Let me go dust off my PMP cert

 

[kuba]

I think both said the same but the way I expressed myself as a non-native might be interpreted otherwise
what I want to say is that it's not 14week offseason, followed by 8 week health phase, etc for everybody

i run much longer offseasons for those who dont over eat, i prefer to gain for as long as possible so timelines change. main factor is mostly building out these timeframes around show targets