how good is milk thistle for liver protection from orals?

[j_100801]

in the 'old' days many people used to take milk thistle for liver protection when on orals like dbol. i dont hear much about that anymore.

how good is milk thistle for liver protection when on orals? and how much mg would be recommended a day? for instance 50mg dbol a day or 50mg drol a day?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

not totally sure. according to my bloodwork possibly no difference than using nothing. i hope im wrong but bloodwork is blood-work. ill have to keep testing , refining it, , experimenting, etc

I have had elevated liver enzymes for eight years now according to bloodwork
not real high 20 points over or so. really havent gone down. I relize intense training and injuries cause elevated liver enzymes

I got a new doctor and hes been concerned. I tried top explain its from intense training and he says intense training doesnt cause ast and alt liver enzymes to go up.

hes testing again in feb. from what I understand Its best I show him this information

"The simplest blood test that should be included when examining liver health in people engaging in regular intense resistance exercise is GGT (gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase). The reason is that GGT distinguishes healthy people with resistance training induced elevations in ALT and AST from patients with hepatitis.[17] One notable study found that bodybuilders (both anabolic steroid non-users and users) both had a GGT level around 30 U/L (normal range for this assay; 8-78 U/L), while hepatitis patients had GGT levels of 212 U/L (i.e. a 2.7-fold elevation above the upper end of normal range).[17] This was confirmed in another study which showed that resistance exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men; while ALT, AST and CK were greatly elevated, GGT was not.[16] Thus, including GGT in blood testing for evaluation of liver status will help differentiation between transaminase elevations due to muscle damage vs. liver damage. While GGT is a simple parameter to measure, it is not included in routine clinical lab panels, and thus has to be specifically requested."

16. Pettersson, J., et al., Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men. Br J Clin Pharmacol, 2008. 65(2): p. 253-9. 17. Dickerman, R.D., et al., Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Clin J Sport Med, 1999. 9(1): p. 34-9.

 

[old timer]

I relize intense training and injuries cause elevated liver enzymes

Agreed! For that reason, I don't workout for 48-72 hours prior to having my blood drawn which has worked for me.

 

[GotTren?]

Tudca!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hulkbulk8]

Tudca + NAC

 

[Userat204]

NAC 600 MG X 2 a day is a lot better than milk thistle. Most .ilk thistle is trash. There is about 1 to 3 brands out there that are worth using and all are expensive. You can get now foods brand N-Acytl-Cistine - NAC 600 mg cheap and it works great. It helps create glutathione which is the vile in the liver needed to remove toxins. I have personally been on dbol while using 600 mg twice daily and 500 mg it Tumeric twice daily when I had extensive la s done and not only did my liver values come back as good the flow of blood they my liver etc was all perfect. But UDCA is much better and one of the best things you can use with heavy orals or very potent orals know to make you jaundice over night. Tudca will work fairly dece f but its not better than UDCA, there are a couple labs that make a liver product that is probably the best thing you can use I think its synthergine that is one of them and if you think not using something better than the garbage milk whistle at your local store is ok while using orals heavily then think again. Yes you liver can regenerate and things typically go back to normal after a cycle but we really never know what else ppl are using. Lots of BB are on opiate pain meds which are horrible for you liver, and who knows what else. I've seen guys all the time run cycles and orals and drink a lot of alcohol everyday. I ask why they even bother going to the gym let alone use steroids. I'm not saying you can't have a couple drinks on occasion I don't really care for alcohol but at one time when I first injured my spine I had a love affair with pain pills all while using orals and oils and I felt like I was unstoppable then I realized my bp was sky high my liver values were insane and I had to really make some changes. There are ppl out there who may have to use pain meds and you really need to use a good liver supplement all year long everyone in my opinion should be using NAC and Tumeric all the time the health benefits from them are amazing and grapeseeeds have been proven to kill cancer so you need to look at your body as a whole. Its about ph balance really. Too acidic and you will end up with cancers and all types of illnesses. More alkaline and you will have a stronger immune system. Supplements that reduce inflammation help Tumeric is excellent at it and there are some others. You don't need a million supplements I was taking them by the handful at one time but all you really need is a couple of good ones and speaking of supplements since your on a cycle you should be using nettle root extract. It lowers shbg which prevents the production of some estrogen and increases free test greatly. Total test doesn't mean anything your body will use about 3 to 7% and convert the rest of the T to estro, dht and many other things but you are using T for its benefits. You can get on Amazon or eBay and get Barlows brand nettle root extract which is a specific part and has to be the extract but it will increase free T greatky just with an inexpensive supplement meaning you T will be working much better and you want as much of it free as you can possibly get.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

 

[Steve123]

Milk thissle wont make it worse but I have by doubts about how effective it is.

 

[GotTren?]

NAC 600 MG X 2 a day is a lot better than milk thistle. Most .ilk thistle is trash. There is about 1 to 3 brands out there that are worth using and all are expensive. You can get now foods brand N-Acytl-Cistine - NAC 600 mg cheap and it works great. It helps create glutathione which is the vile in the liver needed to remove toxins. I have personally been on dbol while using 600 mg twice daily and 500 mg it Tumeric twice daily when I had extensive la s done and not only did my liver values come back as good the flow of blood they my liver etc was all perfect. But UDCA is much better and one of the best things you can use with heavy orals or very potent orals know to make you jaundice over night. Tudca will work fairly dece f but its not better than UDCA, there are a couple labs that make a liver product that is probably the best thing you can use I think its synthergine that is one of them and if you think not using something better than the garbage milk whistle at your local store is ok while using orals heavily then think again. Yes you liver can regenerate and things typically go back to normal after a cycle but we really never know what else ppl are using. Lots of BB are on opiate pain meds which are horrible for you liver, and who knows what else. I've seen guys all the time run cycles and orals and drink a lot of alcohol everyday. I ask why they even bother going to the gym let alone use steroids. I'm not saying you can't have a couple drinks on occasion I don't really care for alcohol but at one time when I first injured my spine I had a love affair with pain pills all while using orals and oils and I felt like I was unstoppable then I realized my bp was sky high my liver values were insane and I had to really make some changes. There are ppl out there who may have to use pain meds and you really need to use a good liver supplement all year long everyone in my opinion should be using NAC and Tumeric all the time the health benefits from them are amazing and grapeseeeds have been proven to kill cancer so you need to look at your body as a whole. Its about ph balance really. Too acidic and you will end up with cancers and all types of illnesses. More alkaline and you will have a stronger immune system. Supplements that reduce inflammation help Tumeric is excellent at it and there are some others. You don't need a million supplements I was taking them by the handful at one time but all you really need is a couple of good ones and speaking of supplements since your on a cycle you should be using nettle root extract. It lowers shbg which prevents the production of some estrogen and increases free test greatly. Total test doesn't mean anything your body will use about 3 to 7% and convert the rest of the T to estro, dht and many other things but you are using T for its benefits. You can get on Amazon or eBay and get Barlows brand nettle root extract which is a specific part and has to be the extract but it will increase free T greatky just with an inexpensive supplement meaning you T will be working much better and you want as much of it free as you can possibly get.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

Good info here, also another company that carries good products is bulksupplements.com pure ingredients and bulk supply so it's good pricing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elvia1023]

There are lots of good threads on liver health on this forum. My favourite liver product is synthergine by a long way. LIV-52 is another good product but I look at that as more of a year round health aid.

 

[Phidias]

As so many blood tests posted along the years proved again and again, NOTHING beats Synthergine when it comes to detoxify your liver, might your elevated AST/ALT (among other values) be due to drug use, alcohol or whatever medical condition.

A pure milk thistle product, desmodium and NAC, among others easily available (not the case with TUDCA) are definitily worthy too... but Synthergine should always be your staple.

 

[TheRoid]

Well at least in rats, dbol + silymarin seems to work:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15510919

 

[j_100801]

so synthergine seems to be yours fav.

the thing is i have 500gr of milk thistle extract, thinking of making it in capsules. probably the best thing is give it a try and do a liver test in a few weeks.

 

[DonJulio]

It's my favorite. Easy to use. I think someone has some bloods to show liver improvement with Synthergine.

 

[heavyhitter]

Don't even bother. Tudca, liv52

 

[saffire]

guys who use liv52. how much tabs per day?

 

[bigcheese1337]

I have taken a truck load of oral from 2004 to 2012. Eight years of orals. I regret every second of it.

Milk thistle has been used for years and years by dudes taking orals. I used it and men years before me and after me will use it.

Bottom line: Milk thistle is good for those geriatric fucks that have small time liver issues. Oral steroids are toxic for the liver and milk thistle Cannot compete against orals. Sorry to break it to you. Brutal honesty on my end from experience. I regret taking orals and milk thistle didn't do dick for me. Just saying. But I was a dumbass and paid the price. Don't be that guy. Eat right and lift hard. No orals. You will be bigger than 90% of the dudes alone just with a rock solid diet and lifting routine.

Debbie downer has left the building.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[K1]

As so many blood tests posted along the years proved again and again, NOTHING beats Synthergine when it comes to detoxify your liver, might your elevated AST/ALT (among other values) be due to drug use, alcohol or whatever medical condition.

:yeahthat: Nothing beats Synthergine...Regardless of whether people want to say it's a board-opinion product, the blood work doesn't lie and there are plenty of tests here that show how effective Synthergine is!

 

[j_100801]

if i do a blood test to see the liver condition when on orals, what should i check exactly? ALAT? ASAT? Gamma GT?

i can do ALAT only test for 7 Euro, but ASAT and Gamma GT test is part of other test that is 150 Euro

 

[Jaythomas]

Preference

I prefer TUDCA and NAC. Lots of studies to support their use and my labs are always good when on orals if I use them consistently....

 

[yesidont]

works for me, even now when i have very BIIIIG liver problem