How much gear is too much? The REAL point of diminishing returns

[st114]

This is what I look like running super low doses (haven’t run anything over 250mg total since July and no GH). If I can just hold onto this and still stay strong I’ll be happy. No more 260-270lbs. I’m 225ish here

 

[gains4000]

View attachment 243289
This is what I look like running super low doses (haven’t run anything over 250mg total since July and no GH). If I can just hold onto this and still stay strong I’ll be happy. No more 260-270lbs. I’m 225ish here

you look much bigger than 225.

 

[Karađorđe]

Honestly not sure, but I’ve used Direct for years now, so whatever he puts in there. But that’s where I was for a while, loved being big and just put up with feeling like shit.


Yep, that’s correct, the 495x8 row and 405 seated shoulder press videos can be found in the pic you took today thread. I’m doing a low dose “blast” right now of 140mg test and 100mg tren hex, and honestly less is more for me right now. I slimmed down on purpose over the summer to be more mobile and athletic for firefighting, and I still repped out the 180s on incline bench for sets of 10, 12 plates per side hack squats for 10, 10 plate t-bar rows. I lost a little strength but gaining it all back while being 40lbs lighter and on way lower doses. I think you’re right, I don’t need to push it anymore. I got so big that it was impacting my job performance and overall felt and looked unhealthy. I look ten years younger than I did last year. My biggest blast ever was a year ago when I did 300mg test and ramped tren from 350 to 700 and even 900 for a week. Gravity turned off and my strength and physique was ridiculous, but I was very unhealthy.
For me now, low doses, staying light (no bigger than 230), and functional workouts added in (hyrox wods, FFer gear workouts, running, rucking, weight vest Stairmaster), calisthenics

I feel a million times better going down to TRT/very low doses


My grandparents are still alive at close to 100 years old, both sides, and several great uncles are in their 90s and still downing a bottle of whiskey and a pack of cigs a day. So I have pretty good health genetics too.
But I think even with that, blasting for me isn’t a good idea. My bloodwork doesn’t go out of whack besides my liver and hematocrit, but I get so inflamed, bloated, and just look and biggest of all FEEL unhealthy. I think if your body feels unwell, that’s a pretty obvious sign despite bloodwork looking okay. And masking everything with ancillaries isn’t a good plan IMO.
I mean, I started taking Proviron at 50mg a day and my BP was 167 systolic just sitting around. I can take BP meds, but I could also just not take certain things. I don’t know why my body is increasingly more sensitive over the years
I talked with DanielTX a lot (RIP), and his death hit me pretty hard. He also had some good family genetics as far as longevity and resilience to lifestyle choices goes. He took every health precaution there was as far as ancillaries, and I believe he truly thought he’d be good to go. Unfortunately what happened happened, and it was a wake up call for me.


Thank you, I was always very strong naturally, and I also squatted 740 and benched over 500 naturally.
I was very educated to be honest, I started reading forums when I was 14-15 years old. Doggcrapp articles, elitefts, etc.
My father was a natural bodybuilder with ripped 19 inch arms who worked out after his blue collar work shifts. And around 15 I joined a hardcore gym and was taught how to lift by top level powerlifters, some who trained at Westside, and also who learned how to lift in prison (that’s where my affinity for volume comes from, prison yard programming mixed with HIT and powerlifting). I’ve followed a strict diet since my teen years too.

I have a lot of fast twitch muscle, and my lifting style is extremely explosive. My jumping/broad jumping/sprints are also high level

When I was 220lbs and deadlifting and squatting 700 I was trained by Josh Bryant/JailhouseStrong, and I was training under him directly for a few years. He really brought out my strength potential

I always wanted to try gear, but I was still making gains and looked great natural. Then I joined the Army and did ten years in SOF, and never wanted to do gear because I was scared I’d crash my test and not be able to get more while deployed or something. I hyped it up to something more than it was

My first cycle was when I got out of the Army a few years ago (the Army and Ranger School especially crashed my natural test), and honestly wasn’t too eventful. It was 500mg test and I didn’t gain as much strength as I thought I would, but my body mutated and I got way bigger. Got up to 250lbs from 220ish and a lot of it was muscle. This cycle was over a year. I added GH too from the get go at up to 10ius. I don’t take GH anymore because of the water retention. It’s intramuscular but I don’t need 10lbs of useless weight to carry around in a burning building.

I certainly agree with you. RIP to the big man, Dan. He was a wealth of knowledge. I’m not even 30, and my BP now even when on a TRT dose is always 125/70ish. I figure even with my daily cardio and clean diet that I can’t get it much low no matter what I do.

At this point, my rationale is why not blast a gram of gear and keep everything as kosher as I can. I mean, I kinda fucked myself and have somewhat elevated BP even if I come off, anyway? (The 125/70 is on meds and “legit” TRT. It holds steady on that up to a certain amount weekly)

I guess I could make it come down if I lost weight. But, I’m only 6’2” 240 now. Not particularly huge by any real bodybuilding standard lol. That’s my dilemma

 

[Spiro]

View attachment 243289
This is what I look like running super low doses (haven’t run anything over 250mg total since July and no GH). If I can just hold onto this and still stay strong I’ll be happy. No more 260-270lbs. I’m 225ish here

Looking big and awesome on 250mg total mate, i would be super satisfied to look like that on just 250mg for the rest of life and is healthier for longevity

 

[Chinaski]

Looking big and awesome on 250mg total mate, i would be super satisfied to look like that on just 250mg for the rest of life and is healthier for longevity

Honestly couldn’t agree more. Literally a top 1% physique here and holding that on so little, plus looking healthy. Why push the envelope? 99% of guys would kill to look like this

 

[Gaintrain]

View attachment 243289
This is what I look like running super low doses (haven’t run anything over 250mg total since July and no GH). If I can just hold onto this and still stay strong I’ll be happy. No more 260-270lbs. I’m 225ish here

solid bro, good look on minimal doses!

 

[jl9987]

View attachment 243289
This is what I look like running super low doses (haven’t run anything over 250mg total since July and no GH). If I can just hold onto this and still stay strong I’ll be happy. No more 260-270lbs. I’m 225ish here

Look great!

Can I ask, what's the reason for just 250mg total and nothing else? Health or?

 

[Gaintrain]

I think the short answer is it varies person to person

The longer answer is it varies by compound: 1g of tren will make most people lose their shit and probably feel like crap rather quickly. 1g of DHB will have your HS-CRP so elevated you’ll be so inflamed and lethargic you won’t even want to get out of bed. 1g test makes most people feel great. Primo is pretty mild
Mg wise and is a good filler, mast is pretty mild mg wise and is a good filler, eq generally needs to be run higher due to ester weight and most people seem to tolerate it well, some don’t. Deca or NPP is pretty hit or miss

The more realistic answer is most people should be able to handle 2-3g relatively easy with maybe minimal support or ancillary compounds (assuming things like blood pressure and health markers remain normal)

Above 2-3g water retention starts to mount, things like sleep apnea become more noticeable, blood pressure gets considerably worse, inflammation is up, cholesterol and hemocrit likely start to become more of a heavy consideration. Of course there’s some people who can genetically just tolerate gear better and exceptions to the rule, but for the average person above 2-3g you really need a lot of ancillaries to keep the train going and even then it’s not really healthy. You’re just trying to minimize damage

I couldn't imagine 1g of tren per week lol!!!

 

[Sectør]

I couldn't imagine 1g of tren per week lol!!!

Would not recommend it haha

 

[Alzadosghost]

Would not recommend it haha

I took a gram of Tren a week up to 2 grams for an entire year. My blood pressure, kidneys and liver were all within normal range the entire time. I had an unlimited supply of it so I just played with it. Got alot of comments lol from Superman to elite. lol I think Tren is one of the most overrated drugs out there. It always made me flat I voucher gain weight and my gut was a mess the entire time and I was swimming in my bed litterally. Whether it’s too much is all a matter of opinion and user dependent. What other think does not matter to me they aren’t me. there are guys on this board who haven’t came off tren in decades. And they are fine too. An impossible question to answer factually because it’s subjective. Opinions are like assholes.

 

[dantes]

I took a gram of Tren a week up to 2 grams for an entire year. My blood pressure, kidneys and liver were all within normal range the entire time. I had an unlimited supply of it so I just played with it. Got alot of comments lol from Superman to elite. lol I think Tren is one of the most overrated drugs out there. It always made me flat I voucher gain weight and my gut was a mess the entire time and I was swimming in my bed litterally. Whether it’s too much is all a matter of opinion and user dependent. What other think does not matter to me they aren’t me. there are guys on this board who haven’t came off tren in decades. And they are fine too. An impossible question to answer factually because it’s subjective. Opinions are like assholes.

I agree I think tren is somewhat overrated especially for the side effect profile. It can be good for added nutrition partining on a cut but I never felt it was this magical compound so many make it to be and I have run high doses of it up to a gram week but have not run anything close to that in over 10 yrs

 

[Sectør]

I took a gram of Tren a week up to 2 grams for an entire year. My blood pressure, kidneys and liver were all within normal range the entire time. I had an unlimited supply of it so I just played with it. Got alot of comments lol from Superman to elite. lol I think Tren is one of the most overrated drugs out there. It always made me flat I voucher gain weight and my gut was a mess the entire time and I was swimming in my bed litterally. Whether it’s too much is all a matter of opinion and user dependent. What other think does not matter to me they aren’t me. there are guys on this board who haven’t came off tren in decades. And they are fine too. An impossible question to answer factually because it’s subjective. Opinions are like assholes.

I’d say you’re definitely genetically gifted if that’s the case

Tren always trashes the hell out of my bloodwork quickly, and runs my BP sky high—not to mention the psychological sides.

I ran 1.4g/week when I was younger and more reckless/stupid before a powerlifting meet. Was just sleep deprived and angry all the time, made me very difficult to be around. Ruined a relationship and some friendships too. Just don’t think that much tren is ever needed. Even half of that is probably too much.

Nowadays I don’t go over 200/week, and I only pulse it for 4-6 weeks at a time.

 

[massephase]

I couldn't imagine 1g of tren per week lol!!!

No way ... I take 50 eod and start noticing the psychological changes. But maybe you get used to it? Idk. I have no intention to find out for myself
I caused enough relationship issues through deca use, no need to repeat it with tren

 

[qbkilla]

I agree I think tren is somewhat overrated especially for the side effect profile. It can be good for added nutrition partining on a cut but I never felt it was this magical compound so many make it to be and I have run high doses of it up to a gram week but have not run anything close to that in over 10 yrs

This...I feel like its so hyped on forums...primo too. But ive never been a strong responder to aas results or sides...I remember my first cycle I was like "ummm...thats it..thats all.steroids are?" I feel like i said that evey cycle until I realized training better, dialing in my diet better...got me more bang for my buck than any new compound or upping the dose lol

 

[massephase]

This...I feel like its so hyped on forums...primo too. But ive never been a strong responder to aas results or sides...I remember my first cycle I was like "ummm...thats it..thats all.steroids are?" I feel like i said that evey cycle until I realized training better, dialing in my diet better...got me more bang for my buck than any new compound or upping the dose lol

What were the highest doses you tried (for an extended period of time) and did you push your bodyweight up during that time?

 

[Alzadosghost]

No way ... I take 50 eod and start noticing the psychological changes. But maybe you get used to it? Idk. I have no intention to find out for myself
I caused enough relationship issues through deca use, no need to repeat it with tren

Iv never got any of the these mental side effects from tren or any other aas. More drive and aggression sure but I’m like that naturally anyway. The only mental side from tren was thinking I needed a life vest in bed because I might drown in my sweat lol

 

[Alzadosghost]

I’d say you’re definitely genetically gifted if that’s the case

Tren always trashes the hell out of my bloodwork quickly, and runs my BP sky high—not to mention the psychological sides.

I ran 1.4g/week when I was younger and more reckless/stupid before a powerlifting meet. Was just sleep deprived and angry all the time, made me very difficult to be around. Ruined a relationship and some friendships too. Just don’t think that much tren is ever needed. Even half of that is probably too much.

Nowadays I don’t go over 200/week, and I only pulse it for 4-6 weeks at a time.

It did fuck with my sleep but I have the worst Insomnia to begin with and have never slept much. But even if I never slept I was never really tired dringvthe day.

 

[madg]

I’d say you’re definitely genetically gifted if that’s the case

Tren always trashes the hell out of my bloodwork quickly, and runs my BP sky high—not to mention the psychological sides.

I ran 1.4g/week when I was younger and more reckless/stupid before a powerlifting meet. Was just sleep deprived and angry all the time, made me very difficult to be around. Ruined a relationship and some friendships too. Just don’t think that much tren is ever needed. Even half of that is probably too much.

Nowadays I don’t go over 200/week, and I only pulse it for 4-6 weeks at a time.

“ trenbolona is always in friends ! Always in !
You think jason going to americana bank weigh 250 ripped make all americano whores wet , you think he play with 50-100 mg inject ?
You take syringue and put 200-300 mg trebolona ace to the right and to the left ass cheek every single day friends !
Trebolona grows you nice and lean and continue thin the skin

Always remeber friends , if the whore canot see it .. it is not there

Now for this to happen you need be using trebolona from top private chef and not this bathtub balonie most you fells play with

Gh15
Lion of judah

 

[dantes]

“ trenbolona is always in friends ! Always in !
You think jason going to americana bank weigh 250 ripped make all americano whores wet , you think he play with 50-100 mg inject ?
You take syringue and put 200-300 mg trebolona ace to the right and to the left ass cheek every single day friends !
Trebolona grows you nice and lean and continue thin the skin

Always remeber friends , if the whore canot see it .. it is not there

Now for this to happen you need be using trebolona from top private chef and not this bathtub balonie most you fells play with

Gh15
Lion of judah

My god what terrible information being delivered via broken English. I can’t believe we ever listened to this fuckin retard. I was just getting into bodybuilding around this time and ran some pretty dumb cycles as they were pushed on the forums as the secret to get huge and quickly realized they were not sustainable.

 

[madg]

My god what terrible information being delivered via broken English. I can’t believe we ever listened to this fuckin retard. I was just getting into bodybuilding around this time and ran some pretty dumb cycles as they were pushed on the forums as the secret to get huge and quickly realized they were not sustainable.

Haha trust me i feel you

He even had my transformation video on the promo for his board

Is ok we learn from mistake although i never did the doses he preached just the combinations

I just posted for my brother @Sectør he will die laughing when he see it