How Permanent Are Gains?

[AJW91]

Assuming one follows a sane diet and training program, how permanent are the gains from steroids? Obviously, one would expect to lose a lot of water weight after coming off, but how permanent would the actual muscle gains be?

 

[LIFTW8S]

For me, I retain about 80% of my gains. So if I gain 10 pounds, I keep 8 of it. Also depending on what I'm cycling.

It all comes down to genetics, your diet, and training.

 

[smithjohn2005]

Also dont forget to set up a good PCT. Getting that natural test up and the estrogen back down to normal levels quickly will help you keep more. They say if you can keep 50% thats average. my last one i gained 23 pounds and kept a solid 15, and what i lost was mostly water from one of the oils known for water retention.

 

[w8s4me]

I know deca is known for water retention. Most of the gains are from water and therefore the bulky look. Someone correct I'd um wrong here.

 

[ShortStop]

depends on your pct diet and training afterwards

 

[bbg420]

i always seem to lose alot of gains until i started running hgh 4iu ed for whole cycle and pct i keep about 85 percent with a good pct of course

 

[AJW91]

Thanks for the replies guys. I posted this thread because I think I'm maxed out genetically when it comes to natural bodybuilding. So far, I've ran one short cycle of boladrol + insulin which packed on some 10 lbs, of which 5 lbs I kept (after cutting). So that puts me at 195 lbs at 7-8% bf. I don't wanna use steroids for the rest of my life, but I want to push my weight to around 210 lbs, 5-6% bf and stay there. So would you guys advise I run a cycle of, say, 500mg test e and 250 mg deca per week with 5000 ius HCG once every 4 weeks until I get to, say, 220 lbs and then cut from there? That way I could allow for fat loss and losing gains so I could get to 210 lbs and stay there?

 

[smithjohn2005]

I know deca is known for water retention. Most of the gains are from water and therefore the bulky look. Someone correct I'd um wrong here.

thats the oil i was running. You take on water but also make great gains from it.

 

[smithjohn2005]

Thanks for the replies guys. I posted this thread because I think I'm maxed out genetically when it comes to natural bodybuilding. So far, I've ran one short cycle of boladrol + insulin which packed on some 10 lbs, of which 5 lbs I kept (after cutting). So that puts me at 195 lbs at 7-8% bf. I don't wanna use steroids for the rest of my life, but I want to push my weight to around 210 lbs, 5-6% bf and stay there. So would you guys advise I run a cycle of, say, 500mg test e and 250 mg deca per week with 5000 ius HCG once every 4 weeks until I get to, say, 220 lbs and then cut from there? That way I could allow for fat loss and losing gains so I could get to 210 lbs and stay there?

the test sounds good but the deca is a little low. It would help with joint problems but i think 400mg/wk is the min for an anabolic run.

 

[StatNMeloNY]

It depends on pct and how hard you get back into the gym and diet after the cycle is complete.

I would like to know if certain gear is prone to retaining more gains then others.

 

[maldorf]

I think that it really depends on how developed you are, how close you are to your potential. When I first started out using I was able to keep much of what I put on, but after many more years of lifting and using the drugs I found it harder and harder to maintain the gains afterwards. So I think the answer to your question depends on how developed you are, how long youve been lifting, and how long youve been using the drugs.
Someone that has only lifted for a couple of years and never used AAS will make tremendous gains and keep most of it afterward as long as he lifts hard and eats right afterward. Someone that has been lifting for 20 years hard and used steroids for a few years is going to have a much harder time holding onto what they put on during cycle. Once that stimuls for growth is gone, things slip fast.

 

[smithjohn2005]

Genetics, Diet, training

Lately everyone says PCT but don't forget back in Arnold's day there was no PCT and they all went up to 250s

LOL!!.....thats because in Arnold's day there was no need for PCT. They ran year around and would bridge with Dbol. Im guessing thats why Arnold has had 2 major heart surgery's.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

you are as big as the dose you are on. period.
if your nattie test levels is 100mg a week then thats how big you are off juice.
its all relevent to genetics.
too many varaibles to even answer the question but everyone always wants to know the anasswer to that one. the BEST ansewer is NONE. you wont keep any gains if you dont train and eat right.
if you are at your genetic limit you WILL shirink bakc down to your genetic limit once you get off all juice, etc. its inevitable.
-JS

 

[osiris]

the test sounds good but the deca is a little low. It would help with joint problems but i think 400mg/wk is the min for an anabolic run.

you really think 400 is the minimum? Seriously. I take 200mg every week and get results. I know there are people on this board who also do the same. Where do you get minimum numbers? Yes, more will work and it will work better, but this is a marathon not a sprint. You take more, you get a bit more gains but you normally get too many sides. Your body lets you know when it needs more hormones to keep growing. If people listened to their bodies instead of bro-science reccommendations, there would be a lot of big guys running around who were semi-healthy

 

[Gunsmith]

you are as big as the dose you are on. period.
if your nattie test levels is 100mg a week then thats how big you are off juice.
its all relevent to genetics.
too many varaibles to even answer the question but everyone always wants to know the anasswer to that one. the BEST ansewer is NONE. you wont keep any gains if you dont train and eat right.
if you are at your genetic limit you WILL shirink bakc down to your genetic limit once you get off all juice, etc. its inevitable.
-JS

This needs to be a "sticky" here

 

[JMAN86]

I would say its different for every person, diet,gear/amount of gear/pct.. My experience is started 1st cycle when i was 21 was 5'9 165 lbs 27%bf and this 4th one i just started after 8 month lay off gear my stats were 200lbs 13%bf. Two weeks in i'm up to 212 already and i find myself keeping more every cycle...

 

[TeknoViking]

^^^you run a trt dose in between? Or any hgh peps?

 

[JMAN86]

^^^you run a trt dose in between? Or any hgh peps?

I did not, in fact the 8 month lay off wasn't by choice broke up with a crazy chic who decided to try to get me in trouble for my gear so i had to stay clear for awhile... nothing happened to me though . After this cycle i plan on cruising.

 

[TeknoViking]

I did not, in fact the 8 month lay off wasn't by choice broke up with a crazy chic who decided to try to get me in trouble for my gear so i had to stay clear for awhile... nothing happened to me though . After this cycle i plan on cruising.

gotta love crazy chicks bro...is that the one in your avi lol?

 

[JMAN86]

gotta love crazy chicks bro...is that the one in your avi lol?

oh ya i've found my share.. she mostly was pissed cuz i left her to go play with an 18 y/o..lol.. and my avi is actually a a random chic i saw on fantasti..i'll try to change it every week to share the wealth..hehe..