How prominent are PEDs in Track and Field?

[Fa Seeshus]

EPO can help mildly in steady state but has more benefits in zone 4 and 5. In cycling races are won on the climbs unless it's downhill MTB. EPO allows you to stay aerobic at a higher heartrate.

This^^^^^

For me the main performance benefit was a dramatic raising of the lactic acid threshold which greatly increased anaerobic/glycolytic work capacity. It is not just about raising hemocrit. Gear like anadrol will raise your Crit but it does not give this buffering effect.

 

[cal]

Lets think
If in a beauty contest when usually main price is plastic trophy and we train few times in a week for about an hour we are sitting on grams how do you think how much take people which:
Are involve in sports where miliseconds decide
Train few hours a DAY
Serious money are involved
Just think…..

amazes how nieve some ppl are. this post would have made more sense like 25 years ago.

 

[Cerberus777]

This^^^^^

For me the main performance benefit was a dramatic raising of the lactic acid threshold which greatly increased anaerobic/glycolytic work capacity. It is not just about raising hemocrit. Gear like anadrol will raise your Crit but it does not give this buffering effect.

Yes it buffers lactic acid on it's own, plus lactic acid builds with lack of oxygen. More RBC means more oxygen.

 

[marssel]

I just caught a clip of an upcoming national level Track and Field comp and by the look of the athletes I’m guessing very very prominent.

I think it was Lance Armstrong who said @if you wanna know who prolly isn’t using, look at the bottom 30%, otherwise EVERYONE else is on something”

 

[marssel]

Lets think
If in a beauty contest when usually main price is plastic trophy and we train few times in a week for about an hour we are sitting on grams how do you think how much take people which:
Are involve in sports where miliseconds decide
Train few hours a DAY
Serious money are involved
Just think…..

Agree with the point but never met a good bodybuilder in prep that wasn’t training 3-5 hours a day, cardio, weights, posing

 

[lookslikesausage]

And working loopholes, every cyclist has asthma so they take albuteral. A lot of MMA are on HRT.

If I recall, USADA/UFC did away with the exemption for Testosterone replacement. Every fighter and their brother was getting the exemption back in the day. Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Vitor Belfort, just to name a few. As far as I know, that can no longer happen. However, I'm sure, no I actually would bet the house on the fact that plenty are still using test and probably not high doses either, more like HRT levels (like you wrote). I'm always wondering what EPO would feel like for a wrestler (wrestling while on EPO).

 

[LK3]

I get that it's the general impression of EPO because endurance athletes do get popped for it frequently - so it is understandable why people would think it helps with the aerobic/endurance side; but in reality its benefits are in the "burst" and "speed work" aspects of racing ie. Hill climbs and overtakes - this is why it benifits sprinters. Famously EPO was a significant part of Tim Montgomery & Marion Jones doping program. For the endurance work side cortico-steroids to reduce inflammation are often benificial.

As for experience in what is used; from what I've read on here the UK T&F (where I am) and US scenes are quite different in terms of PED use. Certainly in the circles I mix in EPO is not commonly used (probably because it's hard to procure; atleast at amateur level). Stimulants aren't overly popular although I know a handful of Tri guys who hammer amphetamine like it's going out of sale medium ester test, EQ, low dose anadrol and var are all very popular here. Winnie is typically shyed away from - in the last year NPP has become very popular too.

Edit: oh and GH. we all love our GH

this all just dudes have no idea wtf drug to use or how to use it.
epo is super easy to get.
amphetamines were cool for endurance sports in the 1930s.
but after that we realize that there are much better ways. amphatmines restrict blood flow. thats about as opposite as one would want. most of the "amateur" people i see show just how amateur they are by there coice of compound and dose.
sure many people take what they can get,but once you get just a little serious about drugs in this world you can get anything you want.
even that icarus documentary was laughable, the guy didnt even get better juiced up. amateur hour left and right.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

this all just dudes have no idea wtf drug to use or how to use it.
epo is super easy to get.
amphetamines were cool for endurance sports in the 1930s.
but after that we realize that there are much better ways. amphatmines restrict blood flow. thats about as opposite as one would want. most of the "amateur" people i see show just how amateur they are by there coice of compound and dose.
sure many people take what they can get,but once you get just a little serious about drugs in this world you can get anything you want.
even that icarus documentary was laughable, the guy didnt even get better juiced up. amateur hour left and right.

Like I say; I think there's a big difference in US and UK scenes (I'm assuming you're US?) - EPO just isn't commonly available on black market over here; conversely from what I've heard AAS are significantly cheaper and more abundant here so swings and round abouts (our laws around AAS are far less stringent ie it's only illegal to sell, not possess or use in UK).

Agree with amphetamine comments; like I say it's only a handful I know that use them - for the most part all stimulants are avoided by endurance guys.

 

[Cerberus777]

If I recall, USADA/UFC did away with the exemption for Testosterone replacement. Every fighter and their brother was getting the exemption back in the day. Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Vitor Belfort, just to name a few. As far as I know, that can no longer happen. However, I'm sure, no I actually would bet the house on the fact that plenty are still using test and probably not high doses either, more like HRT levels (like you wrote). I'm always wondering what EPO would feel like for a wrestler (wrestling while on EPO).

I've done BJJ and it's pretty nice on EPO. Better breath control, no gassing out.

 

[Cerberus777]

Like I say; I think there's a big difference in US and UK scenes (I'm assuming you're US?) - EPO just isn't commonly available on black market over here; conversely from what I've heard AAS are significantly cheaper and more abundant here so swings and round abouts (our laws around AAS are far less stringent ie it's only illegal to sell, not possess or use in UK).

Agree with amphetamine comments; like I say it's only a handful I know that use them - for the most part all stimulants are avoided by endurance guys.

EQ and Tbol are common in place of EPO. The issuewith AAS is weight gain can diminish any endurance benefit.

 

[lookslikesausage]

I've done BJJ and it's pretty nice on EPO. Better breath control, no gassing out.

would you even ever get out of breath?

 

[Cerberus777]

would you even ever get out of breath?

No, it's great. And you can throw off an aponant who is paying attention to your breathing.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

EQ and Tbol are common in place of EPO. The issuewith AAS is weight gain can diminish any endurance benefit.

Yeah EQ is quite commonly utilised here (I'm a big fan). Tbol not so much for endurance guys - seems to cause compartmentation in calves for a lot of people. Low dose anadrol (12.5-25mg ed) is very popular where I am.

Weight gain from AAS isn't considered an issue as the doses used are typically lower than would be used for strength sport.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yeah EQ is quite commonly utilised here (I'm a big fan). Tbol not so much for endurance guys - seems to cause compartmentation in calves for a lot of people. Low dose anadrol (12.5-25mg ed) is very popular where I am.

Weight gain from AAS isn't considered an issue as the doses used are typically lower than would be used for strength sport.

Sounds like availability is the predominant force at play here. Anadrol & EQ are just unsophisticated instruments for enhancing aerobic endurance sport (as I am sure you do know). They are haematopoietic, but highly anabolic (i.e., weight-promoting).

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

Sounds like availability is the predominant force at play here. Anadrol & EQ are just unsophisticated instruments for enhancing aerobic endurance sport (as I am sure you do know). They are haematopoietic, but highly anabolic (i.e., weight-promoting).

Availability is a huge determining factor; at the more professional/elite levels im sure they have access to lots of stuff us "have a go hero's" don't - we are generally limited by what is available via black market (UGLs) which is predominantly dictated by desires of gym-rats/bodybuilders. Plus in UK whist sourcing AAS is much easier and significantly cheaper than stateside - prescription medications are much more tightly controlled here.

Whilst the weight promoting aspects of AAS could be seen as an issue on this setting typically it does not manifest as such because diet, Training and dosing do mean they are less likely to result in huge weight gain (some is unavoidable). anadrol is typically used in lower doses (12.5mg-25mg) and only around key events where increase in power transfer is desirable (IE a road race with lots of hill climbs) - rather than being run in 4-8 week blocks like a strength athletes would. Recently some have started using rad140 instead of anadrol and are reporting similar impacts on power transfer/muscular endurance under load.


The other factors as well as sheer availability is in my experience t&f and endurance athletes (atleast at hobbiest level) are much less prone to experimenting with new compounds unlike BB/strength athletes who seem much more open to new developments

 

[The Runner]

Great post. There's some interesting studies on pubmed with epo, training, and human subjects. Just read this one.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23418527/[CODE]

 

[cmryan]

Sounds like availability is the predominant force at play here. Anadrol & EQ are just unsophisticated instruments for enhancing aerobic endurance sport (as I am sure you do know). They are haematopoietic, but highly anabolic (i.e., weight-promoting).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, I believe you had posted something showing that nandrolone was a stronger haematopoietic than anadrol and presumably boldenone. Did I completely imagine that or not? I cannot find it via search so I'm thinking I may have just imagined it.

 

[Type-IIx]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, I believe you had posted something showing that nandrolone was a stronger haematopoietic than anadrol and presumably boldenone. Did I completely imagine that or not? I cannot find it via search so I'm thinking I may have just imagined it.

Correct, this is mentioned briefly in the Nandrolone Data (including joint pain relief mechanisms [by Type-IIx]). More relevant than absolute hematinic potency (i.e., a right shift of the oxygen-hemoglobin equilibrium curve; increasing the EPO/Hb set point) however, for the application of androgens to enhance aerobic endurance sport, would be the dose/response to induce these hemodynamic changes versus that dose/response where anabolism is stimulated. That is, AAS that confer an increase to erythropoiesis at a dose below that which increases body mass would be more useful to aerobic endurance sport (where locomotion rather than exerting force against an implement is controlling, and therefore, lighter bodies travel through space more quickly) than potent anabolics (e.g., Nandrolone) that almost certainly stimulate anabolism at a lower threshold than stimulating these hemodynamic changes.

Without delving into the particularities of hemodynamic changes vs. LBM increases, if I had to guess, I might say that Masteron would seem a better candidate than Nandrolone, EQ, or Anadrol at this (i.e., you might use some low dosing to induce hematinic potency sans LBM increases). But I am speculating.

 

[Mufasa123]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, I believe you had posted something showing that nandrolone was a stronger haematopoietic than anadrol and presumably boldenone. Did I completely imagine that or not? I cannot find it via search so I'm thinking I may have just imagined it.

You'll have to get the study from Type IIx but my experience is tren > deca > all others I've tried including anadrol when it comes to crit and RBC increase. I have a shit ton of bloods over 15 years to back that up at least on me.

That said I think there's really something else going on as well when it comes to recovery, endurance and work capacity at the cardio vascular level and these drugs. It's not just a matter of RBC in my opinion. Now that said, I have no science to back that up but drol used to be called the "work capacity drug". Even small doses with no or little effect on RBC would greatly enhance work capacity and time to recovery (ie between events/efforts) for me to a much greater extent than deca. My anecdotal experience and thoughts anyway.

 

[Type-IIx]

You'll have to get the study from Type IIx but my experience is tren > deca > all others I've tried including anadrol when it comes to crit and RBC increase. I have a shit ton of bloods over 15 years to back that up at least on me.

That said I think there's really something else going on as well when it comes to recovery, endurance and work capacity at the cardio vascular level and these drugs. It's not just a matter of RBC in my opinion. Now that said, I have no science to back that up but drol used to be called the "work capacity drug". Even small doses with no or little effect on RBC would greatly enhance work capacity and time to recovery (ie between events/efforts) for me to a much greater extent than deca. My anecdotal experience and thoughts anyway.

I believe this but cannot provide evidence for it. While it conforms with my experience, there's just been no data on Tren in this regard (wrt hemodynamic changes).

One confounding factor to this, however, is an important one: we're virtually all using mega-doses of Trenbolone Acetate. I've posted in reference to this before - see: https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/just-a-bit-of-tren.170908/post-3077660 for a discussion of what "low dose Tren" might actually look like.

Suffice it to say, the 350 mg tren ace first use principle is EXTREMELY high dose. It is quite possible that if we saw a shift to saner doses of Tren in line with its relative potency, that it may not be a markedly potent hematinic agent.
* i.e., trenbolone is a ~3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone; so 350 mg tren ace is, at least, equivalent to ~1,050 mg of testosterone enanthate just in terms of genomic action via the AR (it's actually a lot more potent than this in reality, because it serves to modulate glucocorticoids and works via other pathways than classical genomic action).