How prominent are PEDs in Track and Field?

[Mufasa123]

I believe this but cannot provide evidence for it. While it conforms with my experience, there's just been no data on Tren in this regard (wrt hemodynamic changes).

One confounding factor to this, however, is an important one: we're virtually all using mega-doses of Trenbolone Acetate. I've posted in reference to this before - see: https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/just-a-bit-of-tren.170908/post-3077660 for a discussion of what "low dose Tren" might actually look like.

Suffice it to say, the 350 mg tren ace first use principle is EXTREMELY high dose. It is quite possible that if we saw a shift to saner doses of Tren in line with its relative potency, that it may not be a markedly potent hematinic agent.
* i.e., trenbolone is a ~3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone; so 350 mg tren ace is, at least, equivalent to ~1,050 mg of testosterone enanthate just in terms of genomic action via the AR (it's actually a lot more potent than this in reality, because it serves to modulate glucocorticoids and works via other pathways than classical genomic action).

Agree with this. I was normalizing MG to MG with tren > deca > drol. Most drugs this is a workable normalization. Tren is pushing it and then things like ment, halo, superdrol are probably off the scale enough to where it's not workable.

 

[marssel]

If I recall, USADA/UFC did away with the exemption for Testosterone replacement. Every fighter and their brother was getting the exemption back in the day. Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Vitor Belfort, just to name a few. As far as I know, that can no longer happen. However, I'm sure, no I actually would bet the house on the fact that plenty are still using test and probably not high doses either, more like HRT levels (like you wrote). I'm always wondering what EPO would feel like for a wrestler (wrestling while on EPO).

The fighters I know are on much more than HRT as well as multiple compounds the tests are quite easy to beat if you have basic knowledge and access to certain other drugs depending on the panel and time frames. None of the agencies want to catch the PED users it’s bad for business and then some guys like Manny P in boxing won’t give blood for religious reasons lol there’s always a loop when self taught guys can help NFL players beat tests imagine what actual chemists can pull off.

 

[Type-IIx]

Agree with this. I was normalizing MG to MG with tren > deca > drol. Most drugs this is a workable normalization. Tren is pushing it and then things like ment, halo, superdrol are probably off the scale enough to where it's not workable.

This is probably correct.

Of course, I wish that EQ and Tren existed in the literature as a subject of study for hemodynamic changes. What is frustrating is that if there is any general rule that applies, it's that more potently androgenic AAS are generally less erythropoietic (e.g., Halo, cheque drops) versus less androgenic AAS generally being more erythropoietic (e.g., Mast, Primo).

Of course, this may be an artifact arising from their commercial viability & the tendency of research to use commercially available AAS as a subject of study.

To illustrate, e.g., Halo (very low hematinic potency) is used commercially as a potently androgenic AAS (i.e., delayed puberty, severe hypogonadism) and derives commercial viability from its attenuated anabolic profile. Whereas Anadrol (very high hematinic potency, oral bioavailability, and also high anabolic potency) is a perfect fit for therapeutic use in particular forms of anemia.

Tren is potently androgenic, but I believe may present a counterexample with respect to this general rule.
* Alternatively, perhaps we should not even consider per-mg comparison when the doses used in practice are out of line with approved human use.
** EXAMPLE: Tren Ace at 200 mg cannot be fairly compared to testosterone enanthate nor nandrolone phenylpropionate/decanoate at 200 mg because these doses are qualitatively dissimilar; tren ace is so potent that this dose triggers off-target action (e.g., mineralocorticoid antagonism, stimulating diuresis and deleteriously affecting cardiovascular cells) versus test & nandrolone (at 200 mg).

 

[marssel]

This is probably correct.

Of course, I wish that EQ and Tren existed in the literature as a subject of study for hemodynamic changes. What is frustrating is that if there is any general rule that applies, it's that more potently androgenic AAS are generally less erythropoietic (e.g., Halo, cheque drops) versus less androgenic AAS generally being more erythropoietic (e.g., Mast, Primo).

Of course, this may be an artifact arising from their commercial viability & the tendency of research to use commercially available AAS as a subject of study.

To illustrate, e.g., Halo (very low hematinic potency) is used commercially as a potently androgenic AAS (i.e., delayed puberty, severe hypogonadism) and derives commercial viability from its attenuated anabolic profile. Whereas Anadrol (very high hematinic potency, oral bioavailability, and also high anabolic potency) is a perfect fit for therapeutic use in particular forms of anemia.

Tren is potently androgenic, but I believe may present a counterexample with respect to this general rule.
* Alternatively, perhaps we should not even consider per-mg comparison when the doses used in practice are out of line with approved human use.
** EXAMPLE: Tren Ace at 200 mg cannot be fairly compared to testosterone enanthate nor nandrolone phenylpropionate/decanoate at 200 mg because these doses are qualitatively dissimilar; tren ace is so potent that this dose triggers off-target action (e.g., mineralocorticoid antagonism, stimulating diuresis and deleteriously affecting cardiovascular cells) versus test & nandrolone (at 200 mg).

Odd that you mentioned Chequers drops supposedly the most androgenic drug ever made but only results in aggression and libido basically no performance enhancement as I’ve read bc after 20 plus years in this game I’ve never seen them nor known anyone personally who has taken them.

 

[Type-IIx]

Odd that you mentioned Chequers drops supposedly the most androgenic drug ever made but only results in aggression and libido basically no performance enhancement as I’ve read bc after 20 plus years in this game I’ve never seen them nor known anyone personally who has taken them.

I've used them, they are beneficial to neural drive/strength/power and rapidly clear the circulation.

 

[marssel]

I've used them, they are beneficial to neural drive/strength/power and rapidly clear the circulation.

I had read that the aggression made tren look like valium and was great for me strength from that Angle plus no weight gain.

 

[Type-IIx]

I had read that the aggression made tren look like valium and was great for me strength from that Angle plus no weight gain.

Yes, it's surprising you mentioned combat sports and having never encountered mibolerone. It's a drug that makes all the sense in the world for combat sport.

 

[cmryan]

I had read that the aggression made tren look like valium and was great for me strength from that Angle plus no weight gain.

I've read the same. But I highly doubt you could or would even want to use it long enough for it to produce any long lasting tissue gains. I say that based upon its purported toxicity and effect on personality and temperament.

 

[Cerberus777]

The fighters I know are on much more than HRT as well as multiple compounds the tests are quite easy to beat if you have basic knowledge and access to certain other drugs depending on the panel and time frames. None of the agencies want to catch the PED users it’s bad for business and then some guys like Manny P in boxing won’t give blood for religious reasons lol there’s always a loop when self taught guys can help NFL players beat tests imagine what actual chemists can pull off.

Most I know are on test,mast, and bold. Lower doses than bodybuilders use.

 

[Type-IIx]

I've read the same. But I highly doubt you could or would even want to use it long enough for it to produce any long lasting tissue gains. I say that based upon its purported toxicity and effect on personality and temperament.

Correct. It's used e.g., under the tongue immediately before a fight. Not used chronically to increase muscle size.

 

[marssel]

Yes, it's surprising you mentioned combat sports and having never encountered mibolerone. It's a drug that makes all the sense in the world for combat sport.

No haven’t used it most of my fighters fought in Louisana and the tests if they even happened were a joke usually only T to E ratio which is way with cream and suspension cut a few days prior. I used a lot of halo for the aggression and strength without weight and getting clean or fake piss is not hard. I imagine a UFC fight would be harder to beat but then again the UFC doesn’t want it’s fighters to fail the big draw monsters like Lesner should fail every single test but they don’t bc it’s about $ both for the sport and for gambling.

 

[MR. BMJ]

This is probably correct.

Of course, I wish that EQ and Tren existed in the literature as a subject of study for hemodynamic changes. What is frustrating is that if there is any general rule that applies, it's that more potently androgenic AAS are generally less erythropoietic (e.g., Halo, cheque drops) versus less androgenic AAS generally being more erythropoietic (e.g., Mast, Primo).

Of course, this may be an artifact arising from their commercial viability & the tendency of research to use commercially available AAS as a subject of study.

To illustrate, e.g., Halo (very low hematinic potency) is used commercially as a potently androgenic AAS (i.e., delayed puberty, severe hypogonadism) and derives commercial viability from its attenuated anabolic profile. Whereas Anadrol (very high hematinic potency, oral bioavailability, and also high anabolic potency) is a perfect fit for therapeutic use in particular forms of anemia.

Tren is potently androgenic, but I believe may present a counterexample with respect to this general rule.
* Alternatively, perhaps we should not even consider per-mg comparison when the doses used in practice are out of line with approved human use.
** EXAMPLE: Tren Ace at 200 mg cannot be fairly compared to testosterone enanthate nor nandrolone phenylpropionate/decanoate at 200 mg because these doses are qualitatively dissimilar; tren ace is so potent that this dose triggers off-target action (e.g., mineralocorticoid antagonism, stimulating diuresis and deleteriously affecting cardiovascular cells) versus test & nandrolone (at 200 mg).

That is my thought, or issue, when comparing them at an even set amount, mg/mg. It would be hard to determine this...but at this point, i'd take any comparison with some of these compounds lacking literature.

 

[LK3]

Like I say; I think there's a big difference in US and UK scenes (I'm assuming you're US?) - EPO just isn't commonly available on black market over here; conversely from what I've heard AAS are significantly cheaper and more abundant here so swings and round abouts (our laws around AAS are far less stringent ie it's only illegal to sell, not possess or use in UK).

Agree with amphetamine comments; like I say it's only a handful I know that use them - for the most part all stimulants are avoided by endurance guys.

nope entirely different continent. but all drugs come from china and we all have the internet. lol
in this day and age anyone with the money and motivation can get anything. anyone who has heard of somethign and doesnt have it is simple not properly ejucated or motivated.

 

[LK3]

i played with the drol eq idea years ago and in my experience its just bro science idea that these help with endurance.

probably any benefit is from nerve excitation and other upping the dose aspects of aas.

someone one on trt for time prob has an elivated hct. smoking is also a great non aas way to up your hct. mine sits at 55 with nothing but the above. lol

 

[lookslikesausage]

The fighters I know are on much more than HRT as well as multiple compounds the tests are quite easy to beat if you have basic knowledge and access to certain other drugs depending on the panel and time frames. None of the agencies want to catch the PED users it’s bad for business and then some guys like Manny P in boxing won’t give blood for religious reasons lol there’s always a loop when self taught guys can help NFL players beat tests imagine what actual chemists can pull off.

how are they on higher than TRT doses and not worried about weight gain? or is this just in between fights or many weeks out from a fight? Or do they cut at the last minute?

 

[iron lifter]

read speed trap by the late Charlie Francis coach of ben Johnson. they are way ahead than

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91rQcgBHqtL.jpg

 

[totalrecomp]

Gw1516 is traceable. Along came gw7042 its been out for years but only common knowledge for a few years.

DuckDuckgo'ed that one and lol reebok even named a shoe after it lol

https://www.reebok.com/us/trail-cruiser-men-s-shoes/GW7042.html

 

[MR. BMJ]

I know back in the 90's, a lot of the guys i knew playing football would take the usual, Test/Deca or eq, some occasionally with Anadrol/dbol (depending on position). However, a few days out leading up to the game, they would start popping Halos to help them out.