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How to proceed after a heavy cut - Opinions needed

M@NU

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Feb 5, 2017
Messages
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Hi guys,
so i did a pretty heavy cut the last 14 weeks.
Started at 2750kcal and the last 6 weeks were PSMF with calories at 1700kcal (unfortunately i have to go pretty low, former fatty here who did 0 sports till age of 20)
Activity was 4x 40min LISS and 10-15k steps daily. Push/pull/legs 2 rotations weekly
PEDs started at 500mg Test / 500mg Primo weeks 1-6, then 7-14 were 350mg test / 300mg primo / 400mg mast / 350mg tren hex.
last 4 weeks winstrol was added at 50mg / daily.
i also used 40-60µg clen weeks 6-14 and 50µ T3 from week 1 till week 14.
HGH was constantly at 16iu daily
diet went well, went from 103kg to 82,6kg (depleted and 6 weeks with <50g carbs, so i assume something like 88kg after filling back up) hight = 172cm
caliper measurement says i went from 16,8% to 7,4% fat

now i would like to end my cut and i need opinions how you would proceed:
1.) slowly reverse diet and dropping PEDs down to 300mg Test / 150mg Primo (cruise)
2.) use the rebound, keep anabolics high (i drop the oral and the tren, keep rest where it is or increase test) and increase calories by a huger margin.

thanks guys!
 
stay on a moderate gear (test+anabolic+gh) and slowly increase your food intake - this is always the best option
thanks for your opinion luki.
was also my prefered route.
what do you think about 300mg T / 150mg primo? too low for a reverse diet?
 
looking at what you wrote, you have had over 1800mg in recent weeks, so funny 450mg will be definitely too little unless the 300 test and 150mg primo is supposed to be e2d and not for a week lol

but seriously, I would leave 250 test + 100 primo e2d -10 gh per day, add some food and observe how the body reacts - after 4 weeks blood tests and if everything is OK slowly increase the dose of gear - of course if you want to grow a lot
 
looking at what you wrote, you have had over 1800mg in recent weeks, so funny 450mg will be definitely too little unless the 300 test and 150mg primo is supposed to be e2d and not for a week lol

but seriously, I would leave 250 test + 100 primo e2d -10 gh per day, add some food and observe how the body reacts - after 4 weeks blood tests and if everything is OK slowly increase the dose of gear - of course if you want to grow a lot
Agreed with all of this

Curious, do you have any thoughts/have attempted a 1-2 high days initially post hard-cut to initially fill out, then back to standard diet? Sort of like Justin Harris’ approach
 
Agreed with all of this

Curious, do you have any thoughts/have attempted a 1-2 high days initially post hard-cut to initially fill out, then back to standard diet? Sort of like Justin Harris’ approach
Yes - I tried to do 1000g+ for 5 days in a row, but I think I gained only 1kg with my fast metabolism 😅 I will just point out that for me, a strict diet is usually not lower than 550-600g of carbs, so to do something like Justin recommends, I would probably have to eat 1500g+ of carbs for several days
 
Yes - I tried to do 1000g+ for 5 days in a row, but I think I gained only 1kg with my fast metabolism 😅 I will just point out that for me, a strict diet is usually not lower than 550-600g of carbs, so to do something like Justin recommends, I would probably have to eat 1500g+ of carbs for several days
i would kill to have such a metabolism..
 
i would kill to have such a metabolism..

Food bill gets damn expensive. Grass always seems greener. Fast metabolism is easier to get lean but requires a lot of food/effort to add a lot of muscle. Opposite is also true. We work with what we each have. BTW - we all envy the other side of the coin/fence at time. I'm plenty guilty!
 
Agreed with all of this

Curious, do you have any thoughts/have attempted a 1-2 high days initially post hard-cut to initially fill out, then back to standard diet? Sort of like Justin Harris’ approach
This for sure.

I cannot slowly add calories back in. The old idea of slow reverse dieting is blah.
Too many hunger hormones going crazy, ridiculously high chance to binge, and it keeps your body TOO far away from optimal training.
Justin's approach isn't 1-2, its 4-5...and its not back to the base diet, its a new diet. Not quite as high as having 4-5 high days but you are definitely having more food than what you were in the diet phase. IF DONE RIGHT, it will keep you away from the binge time, fill you out and allow you to train hard within a week or so.
 
i would kill to have such a metabolism..
You think you want it , lot of people are struggle a lot when they HAVE to eat that much day after day. Grass is not greener on the other side.
 
You think you want it , lot of people are struggle a lot when they HAVE to eat that much day after day. Grass is not greener on the other side.
yeah, i guess one always wants what one does not have :p
I have to admit sometimes i am happy when i am on the road for 4-5 hours and i dont need to take food with me without fearing to lose weight on a bulk.
but cutting sucks hard..
 
This for sure.

I cannot slowly add calories back in. The old idea of slow reverse dieting is blah.
Too many hunger hormones going crazy, ridiculously high chance to binge, and it keeps your body TOO far away from optimal training.
Justin's approach isn't 1-2, its 4-5...and its not back to the base diet, its a new diet. Not quite as high as having 4-5 high days but you are definitely having more food than what you were in the diet phase. IF DONE RIGHT, it will keep you away from the binge time, fill you out and allow you to train hard within a week or so.
so you would go ahead and incorporate for example 3-4 high days (for me probably around 400-500g carbs) right from the beginning?
 
so you would go ahead and incorporate for example 3-4 high days (for me probably around 400-500g carbs) right from the beginning?
If you are truly leannn and depleted then yes.
 
As everyone has said I would do moderate to high Test/Primo for your rebound. Slowly work calories back up- carbs first in the first few weeks.

Drop in two high days per week- legs and back. If you want to use insulin I would only use on high days in the rebound to start.

This is your most anabolic time to grow so wouldn’t try to reverse diet slowly or drop total MG amount of gear if you’re looking add lean tissue.
 
This for sure.

I cannot slowly add calories back in. The old idea of slow reverse dieting is blah.
Too many hunger hormones going crazy, ridiculously high chance to binge, and it keeps your body TOO far away from optimal training.
Justin's approach isn't 1-2, its 4-5...and its not back to the base diet, its a new diet. Not quite as high as having 4-5 high days but you are definitely having more food than what you were in the diet phase. IF DONE RIGHT, it will keep you away from the binge time, fill you out and allow you to train hard within a week or so.
I know you guys are talking about coming back from contest shredded, but even just finishing a cutting diet it's better to do this. I remember when reverse dieting was all the rage and then John Meadows did a video saying he found it better with clients to establish their new maintenance calories and immediately jump right to it.
 
I think the problem is that after 16-20 weeks of cutting, many do a reverse diet but it is still too restrictive a diet.

You don't want to get fat but you won't unless you're an idiot who does cheat meals all the time.

Do an incremental increase in calories, but lose the fear of getting fat, from day one the goal is to get back to training hard and gaining muscle.
 
thanks all of you for your opinion.
I will add carbs to all training days (thought about 100g) and do 2 high days on legs and pull day (400g carbs) to start out and see how bodyweight changes etc.
ill stay on 600mg test / 250mg primo for now
 
so short update:
ended the cut on Friday and decided to proceed as following:
- all orals out
- tren out
- clen from 60µ to 40µ
- t3 lowered to 35µ
gear protocol changed to:
- 400mg test / 280mg NPP / 210mg Primo
- HGH 16iu
diet protocol:
- proteins kept high at 320g daily, fats increased to 45g daily (15g omega 3 added)
- introduced carbs at 150g daily and added 2 moderate days with 300g carbs
- steps kept between 10k and 15k daily
- cardio at 105 minutes LISS weekly

Changes that i already see/feel:
- fuller
- better pump
- feel much better and more energized
- joints already start to feel better
- weight up by 3,5kg
- sleep is already improved

things i dislike but i more or less expected after such a cut:
- RHR increased from 62 to 73 bpm. During the cut ive decreased my nebivolol dosage from 10mg to 6,25mg. Probably will start to increase again if the RHR doesnt bounce back after the initial water/glycogen weight gain.
- Blood pressure went up from ~ 105/60 to 120/70. I like it a bit lower, but i assume this will bounce back after the body has adjusted.

I also think the increase in RHR and BP can be improved by lowering sodium. In the last 6 weeks ive increased my Sodium to 12,5g daily due to the absence of carbs. I guess i start to reduce that again now to ~8g and see what happens

Any opinions? Things i should definitely change?
Thanks PM community!!!
 

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