How would you approach this rebound?

[Maly]

I'm writing this post for my best friend Lamy we're so close we might as well be twins. He just wrapped up a 16-week cut his first real attempt at getting truly lean and he learned a lot the hard way.

This was Lamy's first time hitting single-digit body fat, and while he did get lean, the road wasn't smooth. He made a few key mistakes:

• Started his cycle with higher doses and tapered down the reverse of what most would recommend.
• Starved himself especially near the end cutting carbs aggressively despite rapid weight loss. (relied on GLP-1s)
• Became obsessed with the scale, chasing weekly drops of ~2 lbs. Even if that week the scale moved, he kept cutting calories weekly for no apparent reason.

Eventually, he hit a wall. The last 3 weeks he looked worse despite losing weight: flat, emaciated, drained. He ended the cut at 184 lbs, having lost over 35 lbs in 16 weeks, with the last 10 lbs flying off during an overly aggressive push in the last 3 weeks.

Last 3 weeks of cut
During the last 3 weeks of the cut, he crashed hard. He stopped pinning completely for two weeks and felt like a zombie low estrogen (did some stupid estrogen stuff), zero libido, no energy. Estrogen tanked, and he struggled to function.
He's now semi recovered from that crash digestion is good, he's filling out nicely, strength is returning. Only issues left: sleep is still rough but improving, estrogen is most likely still in the tank (tried some AJ sims protocols as experiments the last 3 weeks).

Now: Post-Cut (2 Weeks Later)
Now, two weeks post cut, Lamy is sitting at ~191 lbs (from 184lbs), looking better and fuller and one could even argue perhaps leaner. He finally learned the difference between looking "flat" and "full", and realized that more food isn't always the enemy. He also didn't pin for those 2 weeks and is looking for ways to head into the rebound.

He's currently eating
250g carbs on training days
650g carbs on high days (2x/week)
Is experimenting with 0-100 carbs on off days because he wants to keep insulin sensitivity optimal for as long as possible

Surprisingly, he's looking tighter and fuller despite the big increase in carbs, and the weight isn't shooting up like it did in past rebounds.


Final cutting stack during cut:
100mg Test P / M-W-F (300mg/week)
100mg Mast P / M-W-F (300mg/week)
100mg Tren A / M-W-F (300mg/week)
50mg Winstrol daily
80mcg Clen daily
5iu HGH pre-bed

Clen was tapered off over two weeks, all AAS were dropped post-cut, but HGH was continued at 5iu/day.

Now: What's the Best Move for Growth and going forward?
Lamy is focused on maximizing the rebound phase, but also wants to be smart. He's torn between giving his body a break or capitalizing on the "anabolic rebound window".

Option A – Conservative Approach (Cruise + Food)
250mg Test/week
5iu HGH/day
Use food as the primary growth driver
Cruise for 4–6 weeks, get bloodwork, reassess

Pros:
Body gets a break from androgens
Appetite is good, food is driving progress
Less stress on health markers

Concern:
Might miss out on the rebound window where the body is most responsive


Option B – Aggressive Rebound (Blast and then Cruise)
Start the blast with and increase ONLY IF necessary
750mg Test E/week (250mg M-W-F)
300mg NPP/week (100mg M-W-F) - For some joint relief. He hasn't ran this compound previously.
150mg MENT/week (50mg M-W-F) – not for mass, just to "kick start" estrogen and elevate mood since estrogen is most likely in the tank
5iu HGH pre bed
5iu Humalog 3x on high days (15iu total)

Pros:
Takes full advantage of rebound sensitivity
Supports mood, training, and fullness
Plan to cruise after 6–8 weeks based on bloodwork


Risk:
May accumulate more fatigue
Body would get no breaks from androgens for over 22 weeks (initial 16 weeks cut and 6 weeks+ rebound)



Option C – Your Suggestions?
He's open to alternative setups (e.g., primo, EQ, or lower-dose test base with insulin and GH support).
The goal is maximize lean mass without overdoing toxicity or ruining composition.

What do you think is the smartest way to approach this rebound phase?
Lamy's goal is to stay tight, grow hard, and not waste this window. Should he give the body a break and cruise, or send it with a calculated blast before tapering down?

Appreciate any input or personal experience.

 

[luki7788]

Oh, so it’s your buddy, huh?
Man, I just love when people post on behalf of their “friends.” I assume the guy’s severely handicapped and can’t even create a account and write a post himself?
But seriously now with all due respect — the kind of post you wrote here basically reads like you’re expecting a coach-level response. Like a full walkthrough of what to do, step by step. And that’s just not realistic.
Sure, there are a few general ways to approach it… but let’s be honest — unless someone’s guiding you properly, chances are you’ll still mess it up 99.9% of the time.

So the easiest and smartest move? Reach out to someone who knows what they’re doing. Get coached. Period.

 

[Maly]

Oh, so it’s your buddy, huh?
Man, I just love when people post on behalf of their “friends.” I assume the guy’s severely handicapped and can’t even create a account and write a post himself?
But seriously now with all due respect — the kind of post you wrote here basically reads like you’re expecting a coach-level response. Like a full walkthrough of what to do, step by step. And that’s just not realistic.
Sure, there are a few general ways to approach it… but let’s be honest — unless someone’s guiding you properly, chances are you’ll still mess it up 99.9% of the time.

So the easiest and smartest move? Reach out to someone who knows what they’re doing. Get coached. Period.

I figured it was pretty obvious , but hey a little humor never hurts when you're staring down a wall of text longer than my 16 weeks cut.

Just to clarify: I'm not looking for someone to be my prep coach for free. If I could afford one, believe me I'd already be in your DM's. But right now, the budget’s tighter than my glutes.

I'm also not asking for a full A-Z blueprint. Just looking for some direction suggestions, nudges, maybe a "hey bro, you’re about to get fat again if you do this."

I've already outlined Option A and Option B, and left Option C open for anyone who wants to throw in their own take. Whether for me or for someone else who stumbles onto this thread six months.

So yeah, feel free to drop thoughts, tweaks, warnings, memes whatever helps. I’m all ears.

 

[Maly]

Oh, and btw I’ve watched more rebound videos during cardio than a gym bro checks the mirror on arm day. So, I've done my homework.
That said, I'm aware there's a million different approaches out there, and no one size fits all. I get that. But you know how it is, analyzing brain kicks in, perfectionism takes over, and suddenly I'm second guessing everything. So yeah… I had to ask.

Rebound thread

Morning, I am hoping some experienced vets/experienced folks jump into this and give their insights into the rebound effect. Rebound, from what I understand, occurs from the transition from cutting/getting very lean, for contest or not, then coming out of that phase into a growth phase...

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[luki7788]

Option B is definitely off the table for me. Option A it’s not terrible but it’s far from optimal in my opinion.

Assuming your health markers are fine — if you were running around 1300–1400 mg total previously, then just drop it down to ~500 mg. Something like 400 mg of testosterone + 200 mg of either Primobolan or Equipoise can be your solid base.
Add as much GH as you can afford — the more in this phase, the better. Around training, definitely add insulin too. Just make sure your diet strategy is focused on a proper reverse, not a typical “rebound.” Increase carbs progressively, like you already outlined — you’re doing it right. Keep moving in that direction.
Your metabolism will speed up, you’ll stay lean, training will improve, and you’ll stay insulin sensitive — especially if you keep smart carb rotations. Dropping to zero carbs is absolutely unnecessary.
If you’re currently at 250g carbs on training days, that’s a bit low. I wouldn’t use traditional “high days” at all — just training vs. non-training days. On non-training days, you could do one lower-carb day (or even near zero like 50–100g) and keep fats higher(small "fat" refeed once a week). But on training days push the carbs as high as possible while keeping fats low.
Protein? Moderate is best. Around 2g/kg body weight (1g per pound) is more than enough — and I’m talking about complete protein sources, not oats or rice,etc.
Then after 4–6 weeks, get bloodwork done. If everything checks out and you feel fresh and strong, then you can slowly increase the gear — but do it gradually. For example, if you’re on 400 test + 200 EQ, just bump one of them up by 200 mg and wait 2–3 weeks. Watch what happens.
If you’re getting soft, don’t add food — maybe bump the gear just a bit. If you’re still dry and progress stalls, then it’s time to add more food.

Simple as that.

 

[Maly]

Option B is definitely off the table for me. Option A it’s not terrible but it’s far from optimal in my opinion.

Assuming your health markers are fine — if you were running around 1300–1400 mg total previously, then just drop it down to ~500 mg. Something like 400 mg of testosterone + 200 mg of either Primobolan or Equipoise can be your solid base.
Add as much GH as you can afford — the more in this phase, the better. Around training, definitely add insulin too. Just make sure your diet strategy is focused on a proper reverse, not a typical “rebound.” Increase carbs progressively, like you already outlined — you’re doing it right. Keep moving in that direction.
Your metabolism will speed up, you’ll stay lean, training will improve, and you’ll stay insulin sensitive — especially if you keep smart carb rotations. Dropping to zero carbs is absolutely unnecessary.
If you’re currently at 250g carbs on training days, that’s a bit low. I wouldn’t use traditional “high days” at all — just training vs. non-training days. On non-training days, you could do one lower-carb day (or even near zero like 50–100g) and keep fats higher(small "fat" refeed once a week). But on training days push the carbs as high as possible while keeping fats low.
Protein? Moderate is best. Around 2g/kg body weight (1g per pound) is more than enough — and I’m talking about complete protein sources, not oats or rice,etc.
Then after 4–6 weeks, get bloodwork done. If everything checks out and you feel fresh and strong, then you can slowly increase the gear — but do it gradually. For example, if you’re on 400 test + 200 EQ, just bump one of them up by 200 mg and wait 2–3 weeks. Watch what happens.
If you’re getting soft, don’t add food — maybe bump the gear just a bit. If you’re still dry and progress stalls, then it’s time to add more food.

Simple as that.

Appreciate the detailed and thoughtful response! If you ever find yourself shopping at the Dino in my town and I'm the one behind the counter, just know your meats are on me. I’m not scanning a single chicken breast! Much love!

 

[traininsane11]

I did option B which is the Justin Harris approach and I think can work but in hindsight and going forward will be utilising an approach similar to what Luki suggested I think it’s just more sustainable and progressive

 

[Maly]

I did option B which is the Justin Harris approach and I think can work but in hindsight and going forward will be utilising an approach similar to what Luki suggested I think it’s just more sustainable and progressive

Glad someone recognized it. It's definitely heavily inspired by Justin's protocol, although from what I've seen, he's tapering down the gear instead of ramping it up.
Luki's suggestion seems very appealing. It's a solid middle ground approach, so I'll most likely go with that.

The main reason I liked the idea of having two high days was to use insulin only on those days, with the goal of staying more sensitive and responsive to the exogenous insulin.
That said, using insulin daily around training, or even both pre and post in the future, seems like a solid option. It's probably more effective for growth, supports every workout, and keeps things simple.

5 IU looks like a great starting point for me since I've been tracking my blood glucose on high days. With 100 grams of carbs and 5 IU of insulin, my 2 hour postprandial (when I'm just sitting around) sits around 80.

 

[luki7788]

Glad someone recognized it. It's definitely heavily inspired by Justin's protocol, although from what I've seen, he's tapering down the gear instead of ramping it up.
Luki's suggestion seems very appealing. It's a solid middle ground approach, so I'll most likely go with that.

The main reason I liked the idea of having two high days was to use insulin only on those days, with the goal of staying more sensitive and responsive to the exogenous insulin.
That said, using insulin daily around training, or even both pre and post in the future, seems like a solid option. It's probably more effective for growth, supports every workout, and keeps things simple.

5 IU looks like a great starting point for me since I've been tracking my blood glucose on high days. With 100 grams of carbs and 5 IU of insulin, my 2 hour postprandial (when I'm just sitting around) sits around 80.

If you eat 100g of carbs in a meal, you absolutely don’t need any insulin. It won’t give you any benefit. You need to understand why we use insulin and when it’s actually needed. We mostly use insulin to help the pancreas when:
-Growth hormone doses are high
-Carb intake is very high

If you eat around 100g per meal, I guess your daily carb intake is maybe 400–500g max. In that case, extra insulin is not needed at all.
Once carbs go really high — like 500–600g+ per day — then adding a few units of insulin around training can be helpful. That’s when it has the best use and makes sense — especially if you’re eating 150g or more carbs in a meal.
But at 100g? - It’s pointless. No real benefit. And it could even mess with your water and electrolyte balance.
So — no insulin needed at this level. Keep it simple.

 

[d4ve]

I did option B which is the Justin Harris approach and I think can work but in hindsight and going forward will be utilising an approach similar to what Luki suggested I think it’s just more sustainable and progressive

I think this is what a lot of Justin's clients have found, lol, myself included.

I attribute a ton of my progress to option B, but in hindsight that same progress probably could have been realized (or at least the same total off-season progress) with a more moderate approach like what @luki7788 has recommended here (moderate doses, more gradual ramp-up with food).

Subsequent preps probably would have been easier, too, because I think option B produces a pretty rapid fat and water gain. The first few weeks are kind of wild because you're still lean enough that it doesn't "feel" like you've gotten too fat, but if you keep that training rolling, you will.

Hindsight is funny, though. I'm revising a lot of my opinions, but I have to sprinkle a few grains of salt on those revisions because tbh I've made rapid progress doing things "suboptimally," and so have most of the other big guys I know. I'll be interested to see some case studies a few years from now, when we'll probably have more examples of competitors having taken a bit more moderated approach.

 

[traininsane11]

I think this is what a lot of Justin's clients have found, lol, myself included.

I attribute a ton of my progress to option B, but in hindsight that same progress probably could have been realized (or at least the same total off-season progress) with a more moderate approach like what @luki7788 has recommended here (moderate doses, more gradual ramp-up with food).

Subsequent preps probably would have been easier, too, because I think option B produces a pretty rapid fat and water gain. The first few weeks are kind of wild because you're still lean enough that it doesn't "feel" like you've gotten too fat, but if you keep that training rolling, you will.

Hindsight is funny, though. I'm revising a lot of my opinions, but I have to sprinkle a few grains of salt on those revisions because tbh I've made rapid progress doing things "suboptimally," and so have most of the other big guys I know. I'll be interested to see some case studies a few years from now, when we'll probably have more examples of competitors having taken a bit more moderated approach.

Totally agree with this and I think in some ways it’s all part of the process of trying these tried and tested ways and deciding what one suits you best

I think potentially if you’re someone who still requires a lot of size and struggles to gain muscle but gets in shape very easily then Justin’s approach could still be very viable

Justin’s approach is very old school and has worked for many and has been touted by the likes of Dante as being the best way to gain the most amount of muscle in the least amount of time and may well potentially be true there’s certainly many many examples in the early 2000’s. Less so more recently and I think social media etc will be partly the reason as a lot of guys need to stay in good shape year round as their income can be based directly off that

I followed the approach to the T for my offseason and realistically think the last 10-15lbs was just water/fat but wanted to stay true to the plan so I stuck it out

I think for guys who have a decent amount of size already and struggle to get into shape which I very much fall into then staying around 30lbs off stage lean is probably the best way to go and I think MAY in the long run allow you to gain more tissue as your body is going to be much more responsive

Live and learn though and as it was my first real offseason I’m glad I tried that approach and can just try a more moderate one next time around

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I think this is what a lot of Justin's clients have found, lol, myself included.

I attribute a ton of my progress to option B, but in hindsight that same progress probably could have been realized (or at least the same total off-season progress) with a more moderate approach like what @luki7788 has recommended here (moderate doses, more gradual ramp-up with food).

Subsequent preps probably would have been easier, too, because I think option B produces a pretty rapid fat and water gain. The first few weeks are kind of wild because you're still lean enough that it doesn't "feel" like you've gotten too fat, but if you keep that training rolling, you will.

Hindsight is funny, though. I'm revising a lot of my opinions, but I have to sprinkle a few grains of salt on those revisions because tbh I've made rapid progress doing things "suboptimally," and so have most of the other big guys I know. I'll be interested to see some case studies a few years from now, when we'll probably have more examples of competitors having taken a bit more moderated approach.

Dead on. Me, you and @traininsane11 know this well.
If anything it shows just how many ways there is to skin a cat AND what works with certain people's personalities.
Would all of us gotten to the same place? Most definitely. But it might've taken a bit quicker (or longer).
All of us are at that point where we actually can see the benefits of a tailored plan based off of trial and error.
I'm kinda in that thought process right now. I dont really enjoyyy competing. Its not super fun to me. Its just a good way to judge my progress and justify living like this lol. So im mentally ready to do this contest and then explore this next rebound/offseason. And i know i'm probably going to do try and do some things different this go around.

We are at a poiint where adding 10lbs of mass isn't as beneficial of adding 1lb on our rear delts, another on our triceps, etc.

 

[td]

My experience with @troponin has been different than others described. I expect he tailors it to the individual.

The week immediately after the show is all high days with an optional cheat meal last. I skipped it. But then food goes back down.

It was 2 low, 3 medium and 2 high days but I think my food only got bumped once.

Injection dosage drops to 60%. Test and an anabolic. Very moderate GH due to my personal choice. Insulin only on high days, every other meal. Orals come out immediately. Fat burners are tapered and off completely by 2 weeks post.

After the rebound, I was up only 15 lbs over stage weight. Off-season weight only went 10 lbs higher.

 

[traininsane11]

My experience with @troponin has been different than others described. I expect he tailors it to the individual.

The week immediately after the show is all high days with an optional cheat meal last. I skipped it. But then food goes back down.

It was 2 low, 3 medium and 2 high days but I think my food only got bumped once.

Injection dosage drops to 60%. Test and an anabolic. Very moderate GH due to my personal choice. Insulin only on high days, every other meal. Orals come out immediately. Fat burners are tapered and off completely by 2 weeks post.

After the rebound, I was up only 15 lbs over stage weight. Off-season weight only went 10 lbs higher.

A lot of similarities to mine

Differences being

Floated between 2 and 3 high days (high days were around 1k carbs)

Gear was the highest I’ve ever used for the rebound and off season

Rebound saw me gain 50lbs and then about 10lbs the rest of the offseason
(Rebound was 8 weeks I think rest of
Off-season about 16)

Probably comes down to the individuals goals like you mentioned mine was/is to be a legit SHW competitor and after being advised by Justin and a few others to have my first crack at turning pro with some NPC shows this year

 

[d4ve]

My experience with @troponin has been different than others described. I expect he tailors it to the individual.

The week immediately after the show is all high days with an optional cheat meal last. I skipped it. But then food goes back down.

It was 2 low, 3 medium and 2 high days but I think my food only got bumped once.

Injection dosage drops to 60%. Test and an anabolic. Very moderate GH due to my personal choice. Insulin only on high days, every other meal. Orals come out immediately. Fat burners are tapered and off completely by 2 weeks post.

After the rebound, I was up only 15 lbs over stage weight. Off-season weight only went 10 lbs higher.

That was similar to his approach with me, as well, over multiple shows. I think his clients vary quite a bit in how they respond to those high days, though. I'd be up 20-30 lbs. from that alone a week, maybe 2 weeks later. Same gear recommendations, also dropped tren and orals, also tapered fat burners off.

 

[Sectør]

What kind of Calorie surplus were you guys doing for your rebounds if you had to estimate?

I mean there’s obviously a high amount of glycogen supercompensation in the post show rebound phase. 50lbs in 8 weeks is pretty significant though

 

[traininsane11]

What kind of Calorie surplus were you guys doing for your rebounds if you had to estimate?

I mean there’s obviously a high amount of glycogen supercompensation in the post show rebound phase. 50lbs in 8 weeks is pretty significant though

Surplus wise I’m not really sure but the actual amount was never massive like it probably average at like 5k calories/day and that got me north of 300lbs.

I can maintain over 300lbs on 4k cals or under though it seems so my response may be different to others

 

[td]

@Maly

@luki7788 gave you the blueprint. Several other competitors echoed similar sentiment.

I like high days simply due to personal preference. But they aren't required.

I'd "rebound" but keep it tight. Get past the idea of traditional bulk and cut. Progressively feed carbs up as you require more but do not use that as an excuse to get fat.

Low carb days do not need to be zero carbs. They don't need to just vegetables either. That's reserved for the very end of a prep if you've exhausted everything else.

I'd split it 300/300 test primo. Everyone has their own risk tolerance but 22 weeks on is pretty conservative for what a lot of people are doing.

I hope you stick around. I'd love to see the results.

 

[Sectør]

The only other thing I would add, with regards to option B:

Test/NPP/Ment can be very tricky to manage. The massive amounts of aromization and juggling prolactin which can easily flare when estrogen runs high could be a problem for someone that was struggling with estrogen management on a lighter stack (unless they intentionally crashed their estrogen?) ; you also said he's never run NPP. Some people get negative mental sides from 19 nors and deca, I probably wouldn't mix that in after they just burnt out and stopped pinning

I like TD's idea of more of a hybrid between a cruise and a blast. Test/Primo--500 test/300 or so primo. Should be mild on bloodwork and even let the lipids recover a bit while still providing enough benefits to rebound

 

[Maly]

Thanks for the input and not completely tearing me to shreds appreciate the discussion, folks!
Shoutout to @luki7788 @td @Sectør for giving me ideas to work with!

So yeah, I've pretty much decided to drop the 19-nors and ment. Sounded like a great idea back when I was prepping and wanted to bounce my estrogen back fast and add some joint support initially classic "newbie wants to try something exotic", you know how it goes.

I'm still set on trying out the medium/high-carb split for training days, I'll just try that since I've given the other diet a try previously and want to have a comparison.

I was eating around 3.6g protein/kg (1.6g/lb), but I’m dialing that back to 2.4g/kg (1.1g/lb) from direct protein sources and making up the rest with carbs.

Honestly, I'm a bit hesitant to drop protein even further like @luki7788 suggested. I haven't gone below this since I started lifting. 2g/kg (~1g/lb) sounds low, but maybe it's enough during rebound and better to up the carbs instead? This is just from direct sources, so I'd still be getting extra from carb-based foods.

As for the diet, I’m taking a more controlled "reverse" approach instead of going full rebound Justin style. I'll bump carbs up a decent amount at first, then adjust weekly depending on how my body responds. If I start looking soft, I'll hit the brakes.

New cycle plan for the next 4–8 weeks (until bloods) will be:

• 600mg Test
• 300mg Primo

Still torn between EQ and Primo. I'm leaning toward starting with Primo. The dose is still low where oil volume is manageable at 100mg/ml and maybe it's a bit cleaner.
But down the line, if I want to increase the dose, that oil volume might become a pain. So maybe it makes more sense to start with EQ now and save Primo for later when I can stack it on top more easily?