How would you approach this rebound?

[d4ve]

What kind of Calorie surplus were you guys doing for your rebounds if you had to estimate?

I mean there’s obviously a high amount of glycogen supercompensation in the post show rebound phase. 50lbs in 8 weeks is pretty significant though

It's kind of hard to say how big the surplus was, given metabolic changes during prep. The last rebound was a bit more conservative, started around 550ish carbs,

Thanks for the input and not completely tearing me to shreds appreciate the discussion, folks!
Shoutout to @luki7788 @td @Sectør for giving me ideas to work with!

So yeah, I've pretty much decided to drop the 19-nors and ment. Sounded like a great idea back when I was prepping and wanted to bounce my estrogen back fast and add some joint support initially classic "newbie wants to try something exotic", you know how it goes.

I'm still set on trying out the medium/high-carb split for training days, I'll just try that since I've given the other diet a try previously and want to have a comparison.

I was eating around 3.6g protein/kg (1.6g/lb), but I’m dialing that back to 2.4g/kg (1.1g/lb) from direct protein sources and making up the rest with carbs.

Honestly, I'm a bit hesitant to drop protein even further like @luki7788 suggested. I haven't gone below this since I started lifting. 2g/kg (~1g/lb) sounds low, but maybe it's enough during rebound and better to up the carbs instead? This is just from direct sources, so I'd still be getting extra from carb-based foods.

As for the diet, I’m taking a more controlled "reverse" approach instead of going full rebound Justin style. I'll bump carbs up a decent amount at first, then adjust weekly depending on how my body responds. If I start looking soft, I'll hit the brakes.

New cycle plan for the next 4–8 weeks (until bloods) will be:

• 600mg Test
• 300mg Primo

Still torn between EQ and Primo. I'm leaning toward starting with Primo. The dose is still low where oil volume is manageable at 100mg/ml and maybe it's a bit cleaner.
But down the line, if I want to increase the dose, that oil volume might become a pain. So maybe it makes more sense to start with EQ now and save Primo for later when I can stack it on top more easily?

Given suggestions from @luki7788 and a few others, I've also dropped my protein back to 1g / lb. - and that's total protein. If you're still at 1g / lb. from direct sources, you're getting more than enough.

I'm trialing the lowest protein intake I've ever maintained as a bodybuilder in a prep where I'm bigger than I've ever been, so I guess the proof will be in the pudding. I'm certainly not the first to do things this way, though.

I'm pretty sure the thermic effect, while real, is massively overplayed - which means you can basically sub protein for carbs once you're getting enough protein to grow. It's not the rate-limiting factor once you're at that threshold.

Protein does have a glycemic load of its own, too. You're converting that excess to glucose, which your body still has to handle. So it's not as if extra protein is a free ride in terms of glucose tolerance / insulin sensitivity.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thanks for the input and not completely tearing me to shreds appreciate the discussion, folks!
Shoutout to @luki7788 @td @Sectør for giving me ideas to work with!

So yeah, I've pretty much decided to drop the 19-nors and ment. Sounded like a great idea back when I was prepping and wanted to bounce my estrogen back fast and add some joint support initially classic "newbie wants to try something exotic", you know how it goes.

I'm still set on trying out the medium/high-carb split for training days, I'll just try that since I've given the other diet a try previously and want to have a comparison.

I was eating around 3.6g protein/kg (1.6g/lb), but I’m dialing that back to 2.4g/kg (1.1g/lb) from direct protein sources and making up the rest with carbs.

Honestly, I'm a bit hesitant to drop protein even further like @luki7788 suggested. I haven't gone below this since I started lifting. 2g/kg (~1g/lb) sounds low, but maybe it's enough during rebound and better to up the carbs instead? This is just from direct sources, so I'd still be getting extra from carb-based foods.

As for the diet, I’m taking a more controlled "reverse" approach instead of going full rebound Justin style. I'll bump carbs up a decent amount at first, then adjust weekly depending on how my body responds. If I start looking soft, I'll hit the brakes.

New cycle plan for the next 4–8 weeks (until bloods) will be:

• 600mg Test
• 300mg Primo

Still torn between EQ and Primo. I'm leaning toward starting with Primo. The dose is still low where oil volume is manageable at 100mg/ml and maybe it's a bit cleaner.
But down the line, if I want to increase the dose, that oil volume might become a pain. So maybe it makes more sense to start with EQ now and save Primo for later when I can stack it on top more easily?

I think this plan looks good. If you can run primo instead of EQ I personally would.

I rebound with a bit of both approaches as the guys above. I hit food pretty hard out the gate- moderate to high protein, push carbs hard and add in low fats with meals as weeks go on. All clean food and no cheat meals.

The cheat meals is where guys can really mess a rebound up. Stabilize your diet and rebound, then think about free meals. If you need a micro dosed GLP to control this period use it.

There’s no need to blast out the gate with gear as others have said. You want to have a high ceiling as you move into your progressive phase so lean on clean food, hard training, dial cardio back to baseline and only use as much gear as you need. I do a hard push with food and then pull one lever at a time as I go into the progressive season.

 

[Swifto]

It's kind of hard to say how big the surplus was, given metabolic changes during prep. The last rebound was a bit more conservative, started around 550ish carbs,


Given suggestions from @luki7788 and a few others, I've also dropped my protein back to 1g / lb. - and that's total protein. If you're still at 1g / lb. from direct sources, you're getting more than enough.

I'm trialing the lowest protein intake I've ever maintained as a bodybuilder in a prep where I'm bigger than I've ever been, so I guess the proof will be in the pudding. I'm certainly not the first to do things this way, though.

I'm pretty sure the thermic effect, while real, is massively overplayed - which means you can basically sub protein for carbs once you're getting enough protein to grow. It's not the rate-limiting factor once you're at that threshold.

Protein does have a glycemic load of its own, too. You're converting that excess to glucose, which your body still has to handle. So it's not as if extra protein is a free ride in terms of glucose tolerance / insulin sensitivity.

1g / lb or 1g per lean lb of mass?

 

[d4ve]

1g / lb or 1g per lean lb of mass?

Just bodyweight. I think anything more complicated is mental masturbation, but if you really wanted to lower your protein a bit more, I'm sure you'd be fine using lean mass.

But you're lean enough it barely makes a difference, right? I think worrying about lean mass for this calculation is only relevant for really obese people - people who need to drop a huge portion of their bodyweight just to be less fat.

 

[Maly]

What do you guys do in regards to training during this phase?

Before, I mostly relied on guesswork I had a rough idea of my weights and always trained to failure, but I wasn't really tracking my progress or lifts in any structured way.

My plan is focusing on clean reps and proper form instead of just moving weight from point A to B.
For the first time, I'll track progress with a logbook and apply progressive overload whether it’s an extra rep, better form, or slightly more weight each week.

That said, is prioritizing cleaner, slower reps with lighter weight ideal for building lean mass? Or is it better to just focus on getting stronger with solid form and save the precision work for later?

 

[luki7788]

What do you guys do in regards to training during this phase?

Before, I mostly relied on guesswork I had a rough idea of my weights and always trained to failure, but I wasn't really tracking my progress or lifts in any structured way.

My plan is focusing on clean reps and proper form instead of just moving weight from point A to B.
For the first time, I'll track progress with a logbook and apply progressive overload whether it’s an extra rep, better form, or slightly more weight each week.

That said, is prioritizing cleaner, slower reps with lighter weight ideal for building lean mass? Or is it better to just focus on getting stronger with solid form and save the precision work for later?

Man just do what always works for you - there are not any special training protocol on rebound

 

[KingOfSushi]

That said, is prioritizing cleaner, slower reps with lighter weight ideal for building lean mass? Or is it better to just focus on getting stronger with solid form and save the precision work for later?

You should focus on all these things year round.

 

[bbxtreme]

What do you guys do in regards to training during this phase?

Before, I mostly relied on guesswork I had a rough idea of my weights and always trained to failure, but I wasn't really tracking my progress or lifts in any structured way.

My plan is focusing on clean reps and proper form instead of just moving weight from point A to B.
For the first time, I'll track progress with a logbook and apply progressive overload whether it’s an extra rep, better form, or slightly more weight each week.

That said, is prioritizing cleaner, slower reps with lighter weight ideal for building lean mass? Or is it better to just focus on getting stronger with solid form and save the precision work for later?

It sounds like you could really benefit from hiring a coach for this period. But alternatively you could do a Meadows or JP routine during your rebound as it is all mapped out and will have videos.

Overall just eat clean, train as hard as you can and don’t blast gear out the gate. A rebound is literally just slowly reversing yourself backwards out of the prep. That’s why we call it reverse dieting.

 

[Samson250]

It sounds like you could really benefit from hiring a coach for this period. But alternatively you could do a Meadows or JP routine during your rebound as it is all mapped out and will have videos.

Overall just eat clean, train as hard as you can and don’t blast gear out the gate. A rebound is literally just slowly reversing yourself backwards out of the prep. That’s why we call it reverse dieting.

I’m in a similar place as he is currently and have been thinking about looking into getting a coach onboard but I have absolutely no idea what that process looks like or what to even look for.

 

[bbxtreme]

I’m in a similar place as he is currently and have been thinking about looking into getting a coach onboard but I have absolutely no idea what that process looks like or what to even look for.

Interview them all via video call or phone. Find who you respect and best align with personality wise as most top coaches are knowledgeable. Finding who you best align with is key IMO.

But I would start here- Dom, Jason and Luki are all three great coaches.

 

[Maly]

It sounds like you could really benefit from hiring a coach for this period. But alternatively you could do a Meadows or JP routine during your rebound as it is all mapped out and will have videos.

Overall just eat clean, train as hard as you can and don’t blast gear out the gate. A rebound is literally just slowly reversing yourself backwards out of the prep. That’s why we call it reverse dieting.

I’m in a similar place as he is currently and have been thinking about looking into getting a coach onboard but I have absolutely no idea what that process looks like or what to even look for.

I worked with a coach briefly and learned a lot. He corrected my mistakes and provided me with a solid diet plan that I now base everything around. It felt like the money was well spent at the time.

If I were financially able to hire a coach, that would definitely be my first choice. However, given my current situation, it's just not possible. My salary in Poland is basically $1000, and I'm not in a position to spend much right now, especially with the costs of supplements, running HGH and paying for decent food. At the moment, hiring a coach is out of the question.

So, I'll have to learn through trial and error, with the much appreciated help of the veterans on this board who kindly answer all my newbie questions.

I also want to experiment on my own a bit even if it wastes some time, because I'll learn what works and what doesn’t for my body type. That experience will provide valuable feedback for any coach I might work with in the future.

PS:
@bbxtreme Do you happen to have a link to those routines you mentioned? I want to transition to push/pull/legs because I want to train muscle groups multiple times per week. I've always done the bro split, but I’m keen to try PPL with some added volume since I think it'll suit me better.

 

[bbxtreme]

I worked with a coach briefly and learned a lot. He corrected my mistakes and provided me with a solid diet plan that I now base everything around. It felt like the money was well spent at the time.

If I were financially able to hire a coach, that would definitely be my first choice. However, given my current situation, it's just not possible. My salary in Poland is basically $1000, and I'm not in a position to spend much right now, especially with the costs of supplements, running HGH and paying for decent food. At the moment, hiring a coach is out of the question.

So, I'll have to learn through trial and error, with the much appreciated help of the veterans on this board who kindly answer all my newbie questions.

I also want to experiment on my own a bit even if it wastes some time, because I'll learn what works and what doesn’t for my body type. That experience will provide valuable feedback for any coach I might work with in the future.

PS:
@bbxtreme Do you happen to have a link to those routines you mentioned? I want to transition to push/pull/legs because I want to train muscle groups multiple times per week. I've always done the bro split, but I’m keen to try PPL with some added volume since I think it'll suit me better.

Fair enough. This sport is extremely expensive so respect that.

Many of John Meadow’s programs are based around PPL. Creeping Death and Gamma Bomb were my two favorite of his that laid the foundation to what I do now. He has a lot of content on YT for free, but the programs you have to pay for of course.

Programs Archives - Team Mountain Dog

mountaindogdiet.com

 

[Sectør]

I worked with a coach briefly and learned a lot. He corrected my mistakes and provided me with a solid diet plan that I now base everything around. It felt like the money was well spent at the time.

If I were financially able to hire a coach, that would definitely be my first choice. However, given my current situation, it's just not possible. My salary in Poland is basically $1000, and I'm not in a position to spend much right now, especially with the costs of supplements, running HGH and paying for decent food. At the moment, hiring a coach is out of the question.

So, I'll have to learn through trial and error, with the much appreciated help of the veterans on this board who kindly answer all my newbie questions.

I also want to experiment on my own a bit even if it wastes some time, because I'll learn what works and what doesn’t for my body type. That experience will provide valuable feedback for any coach I might work with in the future.

PS:
@bbxtreme Do you happen to have a link to those routines you mentioned? I want to transition to push/pull/legs because I want to train muscle groups multiple times per week. I've always done the bro split, but I’m keen to try PPL with some added volume since I think it'll suit me better.

I love the PPL split, even though it’s kind of cliche and mainstream now. I just always end up coming back to it. It’s a good balance between volume and frequency

At the end of the day just go in and train as hard as can. Don’t over complicate it.

 

[artie farkalarty]

Interview them all via video call or phone. Find who you respect and best align with personality wise as most top coaches are knowledgeable. Finding who you best align with is key IMO.

But I would start here- Dom, Jason and Luki are all three great coaches.

What are some things that one should be looking for alignment on and best fit? I feel like many people wouldn’t even know what questions to ask.

 

[Bleed]

I'd start with expectations. You'll definitely have some. They will too.

Most people who hire a coach say they'll do whatever it takes and then have dozens of reasons why this or that wont work. Some are understandable.

On the other side, if they are completely about a certain style of training and diet it's best to know that ahead of time.

You might be expecting a certain level of attention and detail but you might get one liners or be waiting for a response longer than you think is necessary.

You also might drop a lot of money, get a diet and training program and literally be doing that same thing for 5-6 months. Then you'll go looking and realize you got the same boiler plate program they give everyone else.

Work this stuff out before you pay them.

A paid a well known and highly recommended guy who couldnt remember my name or what he had me doing. When I called him out on it he tried to sell me on a pyramid scheme.

What are some things that one should be looking for alignment on and best fit? I feel like many people wouldn’t even know what questions to ask.

 

[bbxtreme]

What are some things that one should be looking for alignment on and best fit? I feel like many people wouldn’t even know what questions to ask.

Things you believe in- are you a high dosage guy, low dosage. Insulin usage, communication style, level of coaching you’re looking for- lifestyle vs getting a pro card, health approaches and prevention, does the coach use peptides and research sarms.

The list goes on and on, but you know what works and doesn’t too an extent. You also should know who you are as a person. So if you interview with a coach and you don’t agree with a lot of what they say or their style then it won’t last long.

Communication is huge- if you always feel like you’re afraid to talk to your coach or share feedback and ask questions then it won’t work. Their coaching is only as good as your feedback so that has to be there.

Another example- if you’re a guy who doesn’t want to get too fat in the offseason then don’t work with a coach who is old school and does that still. Doesn’t make the approach wrong, it just may not be for you so don’t pretend you’ll magically do it and love it.

Half the guys who come here second guessing their coach do so for these reasons. We always say “trust your coach” which is true, but if they hired someone they don’t align with in terms of approach they haven’t and likely won’t be able to trust that approach.

 

[FrenchBench22]

Things you believe in- are you a high dosage guy, low dosage. Insulin usage, communication style, level of coaching you’re looking for- lifestyle vs getting a pro card, health approaches and prevention, does the coach use peptides and research sarms.

The list goes on and on, but you know what works and doesn’t too an extent. You also should know who you are as a person. So if you interview with a coach and you don’t agree with a lot of what they say or their style then it won’t last long.

Communication is huge- if you always feel like you’re afraid to talk to your coach or share feedback and ask questions then it won’t work. Their coaching is only as good as your feedback so that has to be there.

Another example- if you’re a guy who doesn’t want to get too fat in the offseason then don’t work with a coach who is old school and does that still. Doesn’t make the approach wrong, it just may not be for you so don’t pretend you’ll magically do it and love it.

Half the guys who come here second guessing their coach do so for these reasons. We always say “trust your coach” which is true, but if they hired someone they don’t align with in terms of approach they haven’t and likely won’t be able to trust that approach.

One thing that I will add into consideration is a coach's tolerance/acceptance of "off meals" and general flexibility to going off-plan. Some coaches let clients have several unplanned meals per week, some allow none. Some clients expect the coach to be ok with having cake for your partner's birthday, some coaches are highly opposed to it.
I don't think one approach is more correct than the other, but the client's expectations should align with their coach.

@TeaMan has a Youtube channel where he interviews many coaches, and goes in depth with their approaches to nutrition/training/health/PEDs/etc. Justin Compton, Justin Harris, Dom SuperSlice, etc.

ENGLISH ONES

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

 

[bbxtreme]

One thing that I will add into consideration is a coach's tolerance/acceptance of "off meals" and general flexibility to going off-plan. Some coaches let clients have several unplanned meals per week, some allow none. Some clients expect the coach to be ok with having cake for your partner's birthday, some coaches are highly opposed to it.
I don't think one approach is more correct than the other, but the client's expectations should align with their coach.

@TeaMan has a Youtube channel where he interviews many coaches, and goes in depth with their approaches to nutrition/training/health/PEDs/etc. Justin Compton, Justin Harris, Dom SuperSlice, etc.

ENGLISH ONES

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

Excellent addition. I was going to mention that example. It seems to be a big one for guys. Some coaches don’t believe in free meals or even picking foods that the client enjoys eating.

That works for the 1% of us who live this for a pro card or because we love it, but most guys have a family and forget that we are the odd ones out eating 6 meals a day and never deviating. While I don’t do a lot of free meals myself I’m very respectful of foods role to others in terms of being social and something that brings people together and gives some degree of mental break.

 

[Neuro1234]

the more direct you are upfront the better you will be able to determine if they are a good fit. Similarly, the more thought you put into what you want from a coach and what your non-negotiables are (insulin, health prevention, communication etc) the better you will be able to interview them.

In my limited experience, I feel like people just want to have a coach so they don’t bother actually finding a good match for them. If you don’t communicate well with your coach it’s a stressful nightmare. I just watched my GF go through her first show with a coach who communicates like a cracked out squirrel with the memory of a goldfish and it added so much undue stress to and already stressful process.

It was important to me that I am part of the process rather than handed a plan and told to execute. That knocked out a fair amount of coaches when I spoke with them.

If you’re competitive, ask them what show day looks like. Ask them what peak week looks like. In reference to the two of you.

Remember it’s a two way interview. It’s gotta be a good fit both ways.

 

[td]

@xjpx

It's a long shot, but could you elaborate?