HRT experts....

[thebrick]

Very interesting!

Where do you rub Androgel for maximal absorption? A muscle group you've just trained would seem a good option, no?

The insert on Androgel recommends that it be applied on upper arms and your shoulders after a shower and the area is dry.

parrajm is right, it closely mimics the way your own body produces test by releasing a small amount into your system everyday and keeps you level, no peaks and valleys

 

[heavyiron]

200mg per month of cypionate or enanthate is a complete waste of time. you will be baseline within 10 days of injecting. find another doc.

 

[Athlete]

The insert on Androgel recommends that it be applied on upper arms and your shoulders after a shower and the area is dry.

parrajm is right, it closely mimics the way your own body produces test by releasing a small amount into your system everyday and keeps you level, no peaks and valleys

A question about this.. for someone who plans to go on cycles off and on for years, would it be healthier to go on something like androgel between cycles instead of coming completely off?
I'm thinking being shut down for a long time is less healthy than HRT dosages.

I've been hesitant about using injectables for that because of the fact that it doesn't mimic the circadian cycle of testosterone at all.

 

[Massive G]

A question about this.. for someone who plans to go on cycles off and on for years, would it be healthier to go on something like androgel between cycles instead of coming completely off?
I'm thinking being shut down for a long time is less healthy than HRT dosages.

I've been hesitant about using injectables for that because of the fact that it doesn't mimic the circadian cycle of testosterone at all.

Most definitely. It works very very well with avoiding all the problems encountered from low testosterone following time off the injects. Guys usually breakdown even after PCT-crash hard get sick joints hurt all that stuff could be avoided by the use of a topical testosterone which would keep levels in the upper range 8-900 ng/dl.

 

[heavyiron]

Most definitely. It works very very well with avoiding all the problems encountered from low testosterone following time off the injects. Guys usually breakdown even after PCT-crash hard get sick joints hurt all that stuff could be avoided by the use of a topical testosterone which would keep levels in the upper range 8-900 ng/dl.

true^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

not to mention when a guy on hrt goes off a cycle he risks losing the muscle he just gained while on. hrt doses between cycles will spare the newly gained lbm.

 

[Massive G]

Injectable dosing guidelines stating shots at 2 or 4 weeks are so assinine it's unreal but that's what most docs are instructed to administer in training and education and it just doesn't work well with any ester available in the US.

Androgel avoids the peaks but don't expect massive gains on it even mega dosed as some have tried it.
It does help alleviate the side effects associated with low testosterone levels such as lack of energy stamina sex drive fat gain depression etc.

With the injections spaced so far apart there will be as mentioned previously ups and downs-probably making a person feel worse in the long run.

 

[maldorf]

Very interesting!

Where do you rub Androgel for maximal absorption? A muscle group you've just trained would seem a good option, no?

Pretty sure they want you to do it in places where the skin is thin, to increase absorption.

 

[parrajm]

thinner skin increases absorbency. the amount of fat in the area regulates the rate at which you receive the test. if i put it on my shoulders i get a peak pretty quickly but if i apply it to my abdomen the peak is much more mild but the benefits are prolonged a little more through the day.

 

[Massive G]

Another better HRT option killed by the FDA

I previously wrote about Nebido® here:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15058

"Nebido®
Testosterone preparation for intramuscular injection in male hypogonadism
Composition: Each ampoule contains 1000 mg testosterone undecanoate in a 4-ml solution for injection (250 mg testosterone undecanoate/ml).

Nebido® is the first 3-monthly injectable testosterone preparation for the treatment of male hypogonadism. Nebido® offers long-lasting testosterone levels in the eugonadal range. It reliably and significantly improves all symptoms associated with hypogonadism.

With Nebido® testosterone levels remain constantly - for up to 14 weeks - in the eugonadal range, avoiding unphysiological peaks and troughs. Patients value the consistent, reliable efficacy and the long duration of effect, which mean they are not dependent on taking frequent medication. Consequently, Nebido® is believed to become the standard preparation for long-term treatment.

Nebido® is injected deeply into the gluteal muscle. Following administration, testosterone undecanoate is gradually released from the depot and is cleaved by serum esterases into testosterone and undecanoic acid. An increase of serum testosterone concentrations above basal values can already be measured the very next day after injection.

Nebido® will be introduced in Europe, starting in Finland and Germany, autumn 2004. Other European countries will follow in 2005. Launches in Latin American and Asian will start 2005."

Unfortunately the FDA has screwed hypogonadal men out of a getting approval in the USA right now.
Ivedus Pharmaceuticals has been pursuing getting the product licensed for approval in the USA for 2 years now but alas -read below-

"Once again, the FDA’s actions have left me dumbfounded. It has imposed a potential company- destroying two-year approval delay on Indevus Pharmaceutical's (IDEV) lead product Nebido. Indevus' stock price has plunged 70% to an multi-year low of $1.19/share.

Nebido is a Bayer (BAYRY.PK) originated drug that is a long-acting preparation of testosterone that is used for replacement therapy for men with low levels of testosterone.

Low levels of testosterone increase with age and are a largely underreported and misdiagnosed condition. Low testosterone causes a constellation of symptoms including decreased sex drive or loss of libido, impotence, low muscle mass, increased fat mass, depression, fatigue, and a general decline in the general feel of well being.

In the United States, 38% of men at least 45 years old who visited a primary care doctor were found to have had hypogonadism or low testosterone levels. This represents a significant number of potential individuals who can benefit from hormonal replacement therapy.

Since there are 50 million men in America who are 45 or older, at a 38% prevalence rate of low testosterone, there are up to 17 million patients who could benefit from Nebido. Remarkably, only 1.3 million of those men are being treated.

While many patients rely on daily applications of testosterone cream, or biweekly intramuscular injections of testosterone, they suffer from a sawtooth pattern of testosterone concentrations leading to a fluctuation of symptom relief. Nebido avoids this with 12-weekly injections (once every 12 weeks), after physiological maintenance levels of serum testosterone are attained.

Nebido is the first and only long-acting testosterone preparation available in the U.S.

Why did the FDA significantly protract Nebido’s approval review date? It comes down to a few isolated cases of transient reversible shortness of breath and coughing following an injection.

In the U.S. clinical trials, which included a total of approximately 500 patients, there was a single instance of this phenomenon with the 750 mg (3ml) dosage of Nebido. The patient did not require medical intervention and the event resolved within 10 minutes. In Germany, there were some reports of the same phenomenon with the larger volume (4ml) 1000 mg dosage of Nebido.

Mind you, these were not results from German clinical trials. Instead, they are from post-marketing adverse reports that occurred (rarely) in Germany. The most serious side effects were even rarer: flushing, dizziness and fainting. There were no permanent injuries reported.

Most importantly, these adverse reactions were most likely not due to any pharmaceutical shortcomings inherent in the drug itself. Instead, they appear to be a result of improper injection of the drug itself resulting in venous absorption of the drug.

Once more, why would the FDA impose a two-year delay on a proven pharmaceutical product? Does the FDA know something the European Medicines Agency [EMEA] doesn’t?

Apparently not, since its the EMEA’s own data the FDA is relying on.

After all, Nebido has been in Europe since 2003, when it was originally approved in Finland and later in 2005, it was approved by a European mutual recognition procedure for the rest of Europe.

So, what is the problem? The problem is not with Nebido. The problem is with the FDA itself.

The FDA’s regulatory authority was perceived to be somewhat impotent following the Vioxx disclosures of repeated incidences of ignored signs of cardiovascular side effects. Likewise, the perception of FDA’s integrity was less than magic following the Provenge fiasco, where there were well-substantiated claims of conflicts of interests of FDA panelists involved in the delay of its approval. Assumedly, these shortcomings made the FDA act more aggressively- particularly following the recent humiliating congressional hearings.

But these FDA inadequacies did not give the FDA the right to sodomize Nebido’s chances of approval. Disgusting, isn’t it?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/80164-indevus-pharmaceuticals-nebido-has-lost-its-libido

 

[parrajm]

the FDA is the most bootleg government agency there is. the whole thing needs to be reworked from the ground up and pretty much every ruling they've made on a supplement/drug/food should be reevaluated. off topic example: stevia. stevia is a natural zero calorie sweetener but its not allowed to be sold as a natural sweetener in the US for some unknown reason but its allowed to be sold as a 'supplement'. some of these people at the FDA need a good curbing.

 

[JOSEYWALES]

my HRT doctor gives me 600mg test and 450mg deca per week, read it and weep.

 

[Massive G]

Testosterone Implants are also available for HRT therapy---god that brings back terrible memories of the cattle implants used 5-10 years ago and warning kids not get the gun and wind it up implant themselves ----
But these are options as well:
Testosterone Implants

Testosterone implants allow a slow release of the natural hormone. They have few side effects and are almost always successful. Testosterone implants are formed by fusing crystalline testosterone at high temperatures under sterile conditions. The implants are about the size of a wheat grain (4.5 x 12mm). The action peaks approximately one month after implantation and lasts for 4–5 months depending on the individual.

The implant ⁄ injection is repeated depending on the results of a blood test and the way you feel. It takes a week to ten days for results of blood tests to be available.

Dose: The usual dose is between 100mg and 600mg depending on individual needs. In some cases, larger doses may be required.
Ask Your Doctor

Ask your G.P. about testosterone cream ⁄ ointment for topical application – available where injections or tablets ⁄ capsules are contraindicated.
Implantation

Implantation is a minor procedure, done under local anaesthetic, as an outpatient. It takes about 15–20 minutes.

The implants are placed into the fat layer just under the skin in an area where there is little movement, usually the abdomen or buttock.

Local anaesthetic is injected into the chosen area. There should be no pain after the anaesthetic takes effect.

A small cut is made in the skin to allow insertion of a small hollow instrument about the size of a straw called a cannula. The testosterone implants are pushed through the cannula. You may have a sensation of pushing as the implant is introduced. The cannula is then removed leaving the testosterone implant in place.

The wound is closed with a small stitch or with adhesive strips and pressure applied to ensure no bleeding occurs.

People often remove the stitch themselves in 5–7 days or go to their local doctor.

If any pain, redness, swelling or discharge occurs, or if the implants extrude, report to the Doctor

 

[OuchThatHurts]

my HRT doctor gives me 600mg test and 450mg deca per week, read it and weep.

Your doctor is probably not a doctor at all, and if he is or isn't, he's breaking the law and so are you.

Read it and weep.

 

[oldfella]

Your doctor is probably not a doctor at all, and if he is or isn't, he's breaking the law and so are you.

Read it and weep.

LMAO!!!

 

[Massive G]

my HRT doctor gives me 600mg test and 450mg deca per week, read it and weep.

Dying ain't much of a livin', Boy! (1:00 in vid clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9HsfGJ5c4

 

[morepain]

Your doctor is probably not a doctor at all, and if he is or isn't, he's breaking the law and so are you.

Read it and weep.

Exactly, i had one of those guys at one time too, until the state caught up with him and revoked his medical license. That is doctor prescribed cycling NOT HRT. In the end your legal worries are probably less but your health concerns are obviously not in your "doctors" best interests. It is extremely rare for a doctor to use more than 200mg per week with 100mg per week being much more appropriate for most individuals.

 

[gordo14]

*

This is where my HRT wound up. 400mg per month i shot every 2 weeks. I still haver to go to the office each time. I will be getting a bloodtest in 3 weeks. 2 weeks after a shot. I then should be all set and be able to administer my own shots.

 

[saudades]

Doc gave the go ahead for HRT, however it is only recommended that i get 200 mg of test per month. All in one injection. Wouldn't that allow my levels to flucuate horrendously. I would peak after 14 days then start to come down. Which means feeling crappy by week four? Any input is appreciated. Would it be better per say to take in 50 mg a week to keep levels constant?

Your doc does not sound like an endocrinologist. 200mg in a month would be gone by the end of week 2. 50mg every week would indeed keep levels far more consistent. To prescribe any amount for a whole month is ludicrous since you would get no benefit from it the last two weeks of the month.

 

[dragonfire101]

I take 100mg sublingual Test a day, divided in 2 doses. I do 50mg 8AM and 50mg 4pm . You absorb no more than 20 % so that is 140mg max a week your getting.



Clinical Trails accepting participants for testosterone.


http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=testosterone

 

[morepain]

Your doc does not sound like an endocrinologist. 200mg in a month would be gone by the end of week 2. 50mg every week would indeed keep levels far more consistent. To prescribe any amount for a whole month is ludicrous since you would get no benefit from it the last two weeks of the month.

EXACTLY...I had to bring my internal guy alot of research and work WITH him , they are typically respondent if you show that you have taken the time to research it. I always recommend taking them a copy of Dr. Crisler's HRT recipe for success which can be found on his website allthingsmale.com ; it lays out his entire strategy including why you should use more frequent injections, proper labs, estrigen control, hcg usage etc.