HRT...for good.

[MikeS]

Ive changed my approach to gear, personally, after alot of thinking. My (and our) friend Baldnazi's dilemma had influence, but at my age (47) youve got to draw the line somewhere...

My cycles were about 2-3g total wk gear. Long and short acting test; revolving a50-dbol-winny-halo-proviron at about 100-150mg ED total. Also EQ, deca, tren, masterone...at different times but at least 2-3 at a time. gh/igf1 sometimes. Ancilliaries. No slin (did a few cycle a few yrs ago). Peak out to look best at cycles end. 16wk on-8wk HRT (250mg test).

I always felt a little flat and weak on 250mg wk HTR so I always went back on. This time I did 350mg wk. With clomid m-w-f. Ive been on about 10wks and have gotten more cut (?) - and bigger and stronger than Ive been in about 2years. Im eating a bit more carbs and I seem to have responded to that well. I hope to continue this for the forseeable future. Im not closing the door to a LITTLE igf or gh one day, but Im not planning on it either.

Id like to say Im done cycling and will just stay on the HRT. Some may consider this a little high end dose but Im happy and I feel the chance of sides is zero-certainly a huge improvement over my old cycles Ive been doing the last 8yrs. 350mg is less than a beginners dose nowdays...

I consider myself lucky to have gotten through all those years unscathed. Baldnazis trauma was a wake up call for sure.

 

[LATS]

hey mikes.. maybe just go to 1000mgs total while "on".. do what feels right .. 2-3 grams is up there.. everytime i have ever tried anything over 1 gram total.. i just felt like crap.. so i know my personal limit based on how my body reacts.. try lower dosage cycles .. and as for the 350 hrt.. i really do not see much of a prob at 47 doing that.. but remember.. as you know.. there is use and then there is abuse.. baldnazi admitted that he was in the abuse range..

 

[BigBoyJ]

I agree with you Mike and I had the same experience. I'm 32, but I had been using pretty high doses for a good while. Mostly tren and test and some ancillaries. About a year ago though I decided to just try a low dose of test and nothing else. I got stronger, leaner and felt a hell of a lot better. Now, I occasionally add something like dbol for around 2 weeks or so to give a little kick, then it's just back to the test. I've found I just do a lot better with low doses. I haven't gone over 500 mg a week in about a year now and I've made continuous progress. All I get with higher doses is more problems.

 

[LATS]

we have to remember that when the doses are that high, you can take anti e's still hold water.. when ya back off, (like what mike did) the water drops off, he appears more cut, and feels a heck of alot better.. mikes may have found , by accident, that his body will respond better to low dose.. which is great..it might give him a time of even better gains.. i do something similar... i always hrt.. at my age what the hell.. if i want to hold on to mass i have built, then going back to my test levels is silly.. (if i were younger with rockin' natural test levels.. i would go off completely and restore my axis before starting again).. i do 250mgs a week.. i hold my size and strength when i go off.. maybe lose a little fullness but.. what can ya do lol.. when i go "on" i will go up to 750 grams of test usually.. sometimes less..(600mgs) and use just that.. works great for me.. if i run 600mgs i might run some low dose deca or eq with it.. never orals.. anyway..
a funny story for ya.. a few years back when i went to cali for vacation.. i , of course, had to stop out at golds ect.. i went to a gym called fitness forum.. best gym i have seen.. but, that is a different story lol.. there was a top level competitor from the 80's there.. he never made it to pro.. but, was widely promoted.. he now promotes fitness products on tv.. he looked great still.. was full.. thick.. ect.. we started talking and hit it off pretty well.. later in the day my wife and i went to a outdoor eatery and saw him walk in by himself.. he came over and said hi ect and i invited him to sit down and eat with us.. which he did..
we talked about training and he had some very interesting ideas.. the subject eventually got around to gear .. doesnt it always.. i told him what i take, thinking he might give some insight.. he paused and said " thats all?" i said "yeah".. he kinda laughed and said "hell.. your still natural".. i said, "well, i am a bit paranoid about my health ect ect".. he said, "you shouldnt be paranoid about problems with those candy ass dosages".. i laughed.. he told me what he used to take when he competed.. he then told me what he takes now.. which was very cut back.. but, he actually looked better now than when he competed in my opinion.. i brought that up.. he said.."i got older and wiser.. i put more emphasis on my training and my nutrition.. the sectret is to avoid overtraining.. even when i was taking large amounts, i was extremely overtrained.. i cut back my supplements.. trained smarter.. eat much better.. and 20 years later, i look better.. go figure.. i wish i knew this then.." SO GUYS, WHEN YA HEAR OLDER FARTS LIKE ME AND PHIL AND THE OTHER MODS HARP ABOUT THIS.. IT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN THERE.. DONE THAT.. AND REALIZE WE COULD HAVE MADE BETTER PROGRESS IF WE KNEW WHAT WE KNOW NOW BACK THEN....i will sound like a broken record one more time.. if your doing grams a week.. cut, the gear back.. avoid overtraining.. and eat.. eat.. eat.. youll stay healthy and grow at the same time..

 

[BrooklynBB]

Dosages

he told me what he used to take when he competed.. he then told me what he takes now.. which was very cut back.. but, he actually looked better now than when he competed in my opinion..

So what did he tell you that he takes now?

And just a side question, when you take your 750mg, how are you spreading out your shots? Or just all at once?

 

[Qwert]

Generally people who have problems are using a lot of orals & tren. If they never uses teh harsher drugs like dbol, anadrol & tren, I can almost gurantee they wouldn't have had problems. I have taken 3g test a week & had no problems except for a little oily skin & some edema, which I fixed with some dyazide. But, when I went on a cyle of 50mg dbol & 100mg tren edo, I had every side effect in the book. Same for when I went on 50mg anadrol & 1000mg test. Since dropping orals forever & sticking with only test, deca & eq, I've had zero side effects or problems. It's not so much how much you take, but how much of WHAT.

 

[sssc]

great read lats... :;heeky-sm

we have to remember that when the doses are that high, you can take anti e's still hold water.. when ya back off, (like what mike did) the water drops off, he appears more cut, and feels a heck of alot better.. mikes may have found , by accident, that his body will respond better to low dose.. which is great..it might give him a time of even better gains.. i do something similar... i always hrt.. at my age what the hell.. if i want to hold on to mass i have built, then going back to my test levels is silly.. (if i were younger with rockin' natural test levels.. i would go off completely and restore my axis before starting again).. i do 250mgs a week.. i hold my size and strength when i go off.. maybe lose a little fullness but.. what can ya do lol.. when i go "on" i will go up to 750 grams of test usually.. sometimes less..(600mgs) and use just that.. works great for me.. if i run 600mgs i might run some low dose deca or eq with it.. never orals.. anyway..
a funny story for ya.. a few years back when i went to cali for vacation.. i , of course, had to stop out at golds ect.. i went to a gym called fitness forum.. best gym i have seen.. but, that is a different story lol.. there was a top level competitor from the 80's there.. he never made it to pro.. but, was widely promoted.. he now promotes fitness products on tv.. he looked great still.. was full.. thick.. ect.. we started talking and hit it off pretty well.. later in the day my wife and i went to a outdoor eatery and saw him walk in by himself.. he came over and said hi ect and i invited him to sit down and eat with us.. which he did..
we talked about training and he had some very interesting ideas.. the subject eventually got around to gear .. doesnt it always.. i told him what i take, thinking he might give some insight.. he paused and said " thats all?" i said "yeah".. he kinda laughed and said "hell.. your still natural".. i said, "well, i am a bit paranoid about my health ect ect".. he said, "you shouldnt be paranoid about problems with those candy ass dosages".. i laughed.. he told me what he used to take when he competed.. he then told me what he takes now.. which was very cut back.. but, he actually looked better now than when he competed in my opinion.. i brought that up.. he said.."i got older and wiser.. i put more emphasis on my training and my nutrition.. the sectret is to avoid overtraining.. even when i was taking large amounts, i was extremely overtrained.. i cut back my supplements.. trained smarter.. eat much better.. and 20 years later, i look better.. go figure.. i wish i knew this then.." SO GUYS, WHEN YA HEAR OLDER FARTS LIKE ME AND PHIL AND THE OTHER MODS HARP ABOUT THIS.. IT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN THERE.. DONE THAT.. AND REALIZE WE COULD HAVE MADE BETTER PROGRESS IF WE KNEW WHAT WE KNOW NOW BACK THEN....i will sound like a broken record one more time.. if your doing grams a week.. cut, the gear back.. avoid overtraining.. and eat.. eat.. eat.. youll stay healthy and grow at the same time..

 

[Qwert]

we talked about training and he had some very interesting ideas.. the subject eventually got around to gear .. doesnt it always.. i told him what i take, thinking he might give some insight.. he paused and said " thats all?" i said "yeah".. he kinda laughed and said "hell.. your still natural".. i said, "well, i am a bit paranoid about my health ect ect".. he said, "you shouldnt be paranoid about problems with those candy ass dosages".. i laughed.. he told me what he used to take when he competed.. he then told me what he takes now.. which was very cut back.. but, he actually looked better now than when he competed in my opinion.. i brought that up.. he said.."i got older and wiser.. i put more emphasis on my training and my nutrition.. QUOTE]

Lats, great story, BUT you can't just let us hang there & not tell us what dosages this guy used to take & takes now. No need to name names, just dosages.

 

[healthfreak79]

I dont mean to high jack the thread mike but i had to ask what everyone thinks about the use of orals in general. Are they safe if used correctly. Somethings like 4 weeks on 4 weeks off and used with smart doses dbol 30 mg daily and if one uses drol 50 mg daily? What do you think. Did you guys use orals back in the day, and just change your mind as you got older

 

[LATS]

ok.. dosage then was.. if memory serves well.. 1500 mgs test.. 600 deca..50mgs a day of dbol..fina at 75 mgs (old para) every other day.. this is or was leading up to the nationals.. gh was at 6 ius a day.. now.. the dose.. or i should say a few years ago..600 mgs of test cyp.. 75mgs every other day of fina.. eq (500 mgs) was rotated in every 6 weeks when fina was rotated out.. gh was at 2 to 4 ius a day.. my wife remembered the rotating method lol.. as for me.. the 750mgs of test is spread out over three shots.. and yes.. as mike s has talked about.. the guy in question is older.. he never goes off.. he runs test all the time.. his hrt i do not know about.. but, would assume it would be in line with what mikes is talking about..

 

[terryd5150]

I'm glad to hear that, for your sake I'm glad you've made the change.


Honestly, based on your pic I don't feel there was any need for you to be on that much gear. You were only setting yourself up for strong side effects.


You mentioned appearing more cut, I bet you aren't retaining near as much water now.


Cycles in the range you stated are just flat out abuse, I'm glad for your sake you've changed that.

Thumbs up to you, brother, for making the right call.

 

[Big_O]

I t does make you sit back and really think about it...but look what he was taking too....tren,prop and d-bol...

I'm also 48 and having to do hrt for good...but i had blood work done and my body is not producing any test at all...i'm tired of feeling like shit...so i'm up to 750 test c,400 deca and rpobably will ad eq and d-bol and i will bridge with test c at 250 e/w..

I know what your saying Mike...Its the orals...my last 2-3 cycles have been all injectables for that very reason....this will be the first time i've touched an oral in close to 2 years....