I absolutely love stuff like this! Absolutely love it!

[luki7788]

Honestly speaking, I can't imagine how much weight I would have to gain to look like an offseason, and what is worse, how much would I have to lose ...
Usually I have about 290-295 for offseason in really good shape (I have clear abdominal obliques all year round and slight cuts for glutes) and I had to drop my weight to about 255 to be cut well. So here we already have 35-40 lbs and lowering even higher with bf, I suspect that it would be 50-60 lbs or more - there is no chance that after such weight reduction you will not lose a lot of muscle at the same time

 

[b-boy]

Let's not getting twisted....the guy looks great, FUCK he won USA's, no one on this thread doing that, I don't think he looked bad in the offseason at all, I'm just saying there is a price to that method with his genetics, the rigors of the diet melted away his arms, something he needs to fix before stepping up on an IFBB stage.

 

[Dugbet]

I would like to point out one thing, he made this progress in 2 years off season where he added a good amount of total mass and real muscle. But let's say he was a skinny guy and yet to build, that is, he was a beginner.

I doubt very much that he will use the same strategy for his next shows, I think he will stay leaner in his off season

 

[Dugbet]

But i do think every BBer needs/does this once in their career for that big jump.
1 or 2 of these and you dont need to go that route anymore.

100% agree

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Honestly speaking, I can't imagine how much weight I would have to gain to look like an offseason, and what is worse, how much would I have to lose ...
Usually I have about 290-295 for offseason in really good shape (I have clear abdominal obliques all year round and slight cuts for glutes) and I had to drop my weight to about 255 to be cut well. So here we already have 35-40 lbs and lowering even higher with bf, I suspect that it would be 50-60 lbs or more - there is no chance that after such weight reduction you will not lose a lot of muscle at the same time

Luki, you'd weigh 400lbs if you were soft haha

 

[11111]

There is a price to be paid with that method, and it's a LONG brutal diet! If you don't have great genetics you will pay a price somewhere.
His.... look at his offseason side chest shot then look at his stage side chest shot and how much he lost off his arms. You can tell it was a brutal diet.
Me myself I like how Patrick Tuor does things kind of a middle road between the two offseason methods.

Agree with ya bboy. And i think the best of both worlds exists.
You're 100% right, its genetics. But i do think every BBer needs/does this once in their career for that big jump.
1 or 2 of these and you dont need to go that route anymore. Then its that Tuor approach.
I think of Hollingshead as the example. Had some offseason where he got BIG BIG..and now doesnt have to do that much.
ANOTHER GREAT example is (blanking on his name) that Canadian who worked with Tuor a bit and then left....got BIG...honestly, fluffiest ive seen a pro in awhile...but he also put on probably 20lbs in stage weight. He just completed pretty recently. Apologies for blanking.

Also, this is my favorite PM thread of all time.
This and your "some thoughts." GOAT threads lol

Bboy and TheOtherOne, please forgive my ignorance, but I'm not too familiar with Tuor.

Just curious, what are his "methods/general approach? I'm assuming stay leaner, but just curious what you guys have to say?

 

[astrosfan123]

i know training hard is training hard but if Tuor ever released an ebook I’d buy it. Some of his guys on Instagram list their sessions and they look intense. U get the progressive overload aspect of it but also each exercise looks like it gets an intensifier. Not much out there on SST that I could find on how he specifically lays it out.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Brad if you go thru his instagram from the beginning, his arms have always been his standout weak bodypart. He loses them at every show he has done. They are his achilles heel. He said he has finally been able to hold onto some arm size by taking 2.5 years during this extended offseason but if you look at any and all of his prior competition pics....his arms have always been lacking....and he always loses them during the dieting process.

Delt123 as to your question. I feel like Ive said this a lot in this thread (multiple times). I dont agree with the "ultra fluffy" method personally. I believe someone should do what makes them happy while on their quest to getting larger. Blood pressure whether low drug, higher bodyfat, high drug, lower bodyfat always has to be taken care of regardless of the situation. The people in the sport with the kidney failures and the heart attacks, virtually across the board it was the guys who pushed the drug mg's who put themselves into those situations. They were lauded by people on their way up because "on the outside" they looked great as they got bigger and people have a way of coinciding the rock hard massive androgen look with "wow that guy is healthy!".....when its time to pay the piper 10-15 years later and that becomes the furthest thing from the truth.

I just have an appreciation for certain people who are willing to deal with the scrutiny of getting that 'big offensive lineman look' because they realize the strength and leverage that amount of 'heft' (for lack of a better word) allows them results in muscle mass accumulation that adds up over a certain amount of time. I would love to be the guy who could tell everyone "you can get continually larger and stay 10% bodyfat all the way there".....but that also means doing certain things that are probably not too conducive for longterm health (no matter how much someone wants to debrainwash themselves and convince themselves otherwise)

 

[b-boy]

Brad if you go thru his instagram from the beginning, his arms have always been his standout weak bodypart. He loses them at every show he has done. They are his achilles heel. He said he has finally been able to hold onto some arm size by taking 2.5 years during this extended offseason but if you look at any and all of his prior competition pics....his arms have always been lacking....and he always loses them during the dieting process.

Delt123 as to your question. I feel like Ive said this a lot in this thread (multiple times). I dont agree with the "ultra fluffy" method personally. I believe someone should do what makes them happy while on their quest to getting larger. Blood pressure whether low drug, higher bodyfat, high drug, lower bodyfat always has to be taken care of regardless of the situation. The people in the sport with the kidney failures and the heart attacks, virtually across the board it was the guys who pushed the drug mg's who put themselves into those situations. They were lauded by people on their way up because "on the outside" they looked great as they got bigger and people have a way of coinciding the rock hard massive androgen look with "wow that guy is healthy!".....when its time to pay the piper 10-15 years later and that becomes the furthest thing from the truth.

I just have an appreciation for certain people who are willing to deal with the scrutiny of getting that 'big offensive lineman look' because they realize the strength and leverage that amount of 'heft' (for lack of a better word) allows them results in muscle mass accumulation that adds up over a certain amount of time. I would love to be the guy who could tell everyone "you can get continually larger and stay 10% bodyfat all the way there".....but that also means doing certain things that are probably not too conducive for longterm health (no matter how much someone wants to debrainwash themselves and convince themselves otherwise)

I can't say much to argue with the method of getting big as fuck and fluffy in the offseason, as I did it myself, I was obsessed with getting as strong as humanly possible, and along with that came with an offseason bodyweight of 230-250. I just wasn't good at the suffering diet part which is what held me back from achieving more in this sport, Lord know everyone told me about my "potential". I just feel so much better now than I'm older and realize that getting heavy in the offseason is not good for a man pushing 50yrs old, but I did it when I was younger and it is why I don't have to do it now, I have achieved enough size that I can compete on any stage as long as the conditioning is there.

 

[heavyhitter]

Brad if you go thru his instagram from the beginning, his arms have always been his standout weak bodypart. He loses them at every show he has done. They are his achilles heel. He said he has finally been able to hold onto some arm size by taking 2.5 years during this extended offseason but if you look at any and all of his prior competition pics....his arms have always been lacking....and he always loses them during the dieting process.

Delt123 as to your question. I feel like Ive said this a lot in this thread (multiple times). I dont agree with the "ultra fluffy" method personally. I believe someone should do what makes them happy while on their quest to getting larger. Blood pressure whether low drug, higher bodyfat, high drug, lower bodyfat always has to be taken care of regardless of the situation. The people in the sport with the kidney failures and the heart attacks, virtually across the board it was the guys who pushed the drug mg's who put themselves into those situations. They were lauded by people on their way up because "on the outside" they looked great as they got bigger and people have a way of coinciding the rock hard massive androgen look with "wow that guy is healthy!".....when its time to pay the piper 10-15 years later and that becomes the furthest thing from the truth.

I just have an appreciation for certain people who are willing to deal with the scrutiny of getting that 'big offensive lineman look' because they realize the strength and leverage that amount of 'heft' (for lack of a better word) allows them results in muscle mass accumulation that adds up over a certain amount of time. I would love to be the guy who could tell everyone "you can get continually larger and stay 10% bodyfat all the way there".....but that also means doing certain things that are probably not too conducive for longterm health (no matter how much someone wants to debrainwash themselves and convince themselves otherwise)

At 6’1” I knew I’d have to come in pretty heavy to even stand a chance on stage. I ate and trained my way up from 170 to 264 before ever dieting down for my first show

 

[Dugbet]

If you're young and a beginner, you need old-school bulking, improving your lifts, and harnessing that strength to build muscle.

Do this for 2 or 3 years, after that point, you won't build much more strength and the cost vs. benefit worsens due to the increased risk of injury.

 

[sloh]

I just have an appreciation for certain people who are willing to deal with the scrutiny of getting that 'big offensive lineman look' because they realize the strength and leverage that amount of 'heft' (for lack of a better word) allows them results in muscle mass accumulation that adds up over a certain amount of time. I would love to be the guy who could tell everyone "you can get continually larger and stay 10% bodyfat all the way there".....but that also means doing certain things that are probably not too conducive for longterm health (no matter how much someone wants to debrainwash themselves and convince themselves otherwise)

Got this post of yours bookmarked.

"Paying Your Dues"

Random thoughts by Dante (READ THIS) - IntenseMuscle.com

www.intensemuscle.com

 

[totalrecomp]

Would you say that a lower-ish drug use but getting this high in bf is healthier than a slightly higher drug use but staying leaner?

I feel like the answer is pretty obvious but I’ve done both and must say that my health markers (mainly bp) were worse on the lower dose higher bf regime. Also felt pretty uncomfortable. I know that’s what it takes to progress (which I did) but that felt horrible health wise.

Not DC but I would say the lower PED, higher(relative) BF with blood pressure managed with an ARB would be healthier than high PED, leaner, and normal BP.

Also were you eating equally clean/quality food in the first scenario to push up your weight as you were in the second?

 

[totalrecomp]

There is a price to be paid with that method, and it's a LONG brutal diet! If you don't have great genetics you will pay a price somewhere.
His.... look at his offseason side chest shot then look at his stage side chest shot and how much he lost off his arms. You can tell it was a brutal diet.
Me myself I like how Patrick Tuor does things kind of a middle road between the two offseason methods.

Do you think that since this price or toll has been paid this time that the next go around, assuming he is not trying to make another big jump, he will be able to hold more while dieting?

 

[heavyhitter]

Do you think that since this price or toll has been paid this time that the next go around, assuming he is not trying to make another big jump, he will be able to hold more while dieting?

From personal experience going from a skinny 142 to a pretty big 265….I can tell you this is absolutely the case. Once I reach a bodyweight and eat to maintain it for a few months, it makes it much easier to hold onto or get back to after a diet

 

[b-boy]

Do you think that since this price or toll has been paid this time that the next go around, assuming he is not trying to make another big jump, he will be able to hold more while dieting?

It's all about how hard you have to diet, if you have to lose 60+lbs to get on stage it's going to be a long and brutal journey and there will be a price paid.

 

[hawkmoon]

I should just let this ride for 24 hours and watch how many Professional Muscle members make absolute fools of themselves. Guarantee a bunch of them would comment "he looks like shit, he is fat, etc etc etc"

Jordan Hutchinson on Instagram: "Fluffy but definitely glad to be as full as I’m looking right now. It’s been a long off season building this size I’m currently carrying. _ Holding 270+ fairly easily now which is a good sign. I think I’ll hold onto a

145 likes, 7 comments - ifbb_jordanhutchinson on October 18, 2020: "Fluffy but definitely glad to be as full as I’m looking right now. It’s been a long off seaso..."

www.instagram.com

and

Jordan Hutchinson on Instagram: "Physique update - feeling FULL. _ Finally broke 260lbs again, and I’m looking much better quality than last time I was at this weight. The plan from @ifbbprochristuttle is working. 👌🏼 _ This off season (which seems to

180 likes, 13 comments - ifbb_jordanhutchinson on June 18, 2020: "Physique update - feeling FULL. _ Finally broke 260lbs again, and I’m looking much better quali..."

www.instagram.com

I don't think this guy has done anything wrong. No one can judge his choices - Jordan found what works for him.
As you said earlier in this thread, people have to do what works for them and what they are comfortable with - when all factors are taken into account.

No one needs to get excessively fat to grow muscle, but they aren't going to make any real progress staying 8% either.
Each individual will need to try different things to find their ideal, but no one is building a house without enough bricks, regardless of what their PED protocol looks like.

People need to try things, give the time required to let things develop (or not).
Take notes, be honest with yourself. Assess objectively.
Don't chase the scale for the sake of reporting your numbers to your pals, but don't try to be Instagram-ready all the time either.
Finding that sweet spot takes time and effort; a level of effort few will commit to over the long term.

 

[Delt123]

Not DC but I would say the lower PED, higher(relative) BF with blood pressure managed with an ARB would be healthier than high PED, leaner, and normal BP.

Also were you eating equally clean/quality food in the first scenario to push up your weight as you were in the second?

Agreed. I also think it’s a healthier approach IF those markers are managed. Bp and sleep quality goes to shit once I surpass my previous set point. Next off season both will be managed far better than last. Food quality was for both pretty equal and pretty clean. I do have to resort to granola and such but that’s not necessary bad food imo.

I did had to eat more food when I was leaner (also using test and tren while bulking) vs less food with just test (and less training). The leaner version I preaked at 5100 calories with 15kg (like 30lbs) less on me while the fatter version I peaked at 4500 calories.