I can’t decide

[Brock456]

I was planning on doing my first GH run starting at 2-3iu/day but after getting my blood work back and my IGF levels back at 317 on just TRT, @Kaladryn mentioned there might not be a need for it which got me thinking….

Trying to get feedback from other guys if you think it would be worth it?

I would run with my TRT, blasts, and run at a minimum of 6-12 months, maybe longer.

Main reasons to run for me would be:
- anti aging
-insulin sensitivity (I eat close to 5K cals a day) thinking I should be able to eat that or more without putting on any fat.
- visceral fat loss?
- I realize not too much muscle gain if at all on this low dose.

thoughts?

 

[Rumpwrangler]

It’s fantastic man. The biggest downside is that once you do start adding GH to your blasts you don’t ever want to do it without it. Like even a real potent cycle feels like it’s missing a ton of pop without GH alongside.

 

[Kaladryn]

I was planning on doing my first GH run starting at 2-3iu/day but after getting my blood work back and my IGF levels back at 317 on just TRT, @Kaladryn mentioned there might not be a need for it which got me thinking….

Trying to get feedback from other guys if you think it would be worth it?

I would run with my TRT, blasts, and run at a minimum of 6-12 months, maybe longer.

Main reasons to run for me would be:
- anti aging
-insulin sensitivity (I eat close to 5K cals a day) thinking I should be able to eat that or more without putting on any fat.
- visceral fat loss?
- I realize not too much muscle gain if at all on this low dose.

thoughts?

You are confused about a few things. GH reduces insulin sensitivity, it increases insulin resistance. Visceral fatloss is not something GH is known for, insulin resistance is what visceral fat accumulation is known for. I'm not saying GH will increase visceral fat but I doubt very much it would help. GH doesn't increase your metabolism, it helps mobilize fat when you are in a calorie deficit.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

You are confused about a few things. GH reduces insulin sensitivity, it increases insulin resistance. Visceral fatloss is not something GH is known for, insulin resistance is what visceral fat accumulation is known for. I'm not saying GH will increase visceral fat but I doubt very much it would help. GH doesn't increase your metabolism, it helps mobilize fat when you are in a calorie deficit.

Exactly. To give you an example today I’m on ~4iu GH. I test bg at 96 at 1pm. Cardio 30 minutes test glucose at 88 immediately after. Light mobility/rehab work 20 minutes test bg at 104. So, almost a 20 point jump post cardio result of fat mobilized during cardio converted to blood sugar.

 

[goback2013]

Exactly. To give you an example today I’m on ~4iu GH. I test bg at 96 at 1pm. Cardio 30 minutes test glucose at 88 immediately after. Light mobility/rehab work 20 minutes test bg at 104. So, almost a 20 point jump post cardio result of fat mobilized during cardio converted to blood sugar.

Slight highjack.. glad to see you back.. was wondering there for a bit..

 

[Brock456]

You are confused about a few things. GH reduces insulin sensitivity, it increases insulin resistance. Visceral fatloss is not something GH is known for, insulin resistance is what visceral fat accumulation is known for. I'm not saying GH will increase visceral fat but I doubt very much it would help. GH doesn't increase your metabolism, it helps mobilize fat when you are in a calorie deficit.

I have read guys say it’s easier to pound down calories though while not getting fat?
Maybe I worded this wrong originally?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I have read guys say it’s easier to pound down calories though while not getting fat?
Maybe I worded this wrong originally?

It definitely keeps you leaner. 317 is a good IGF number from TRT only, damn good. But you can hit 500 or 600 with GH. I'd say ease in with 2-3iu and assess sides but 4-6 is where it starts to shine for anabolic effects especially coupled with insulin.

 

[Type-IIx]

You are confused about a few things. GH reduces insulin sensitivity, it increases insulin resistance. Visceral fatloss is not something GH is known for, insulin resistance is what visceral fat accumulation is known for. I'm not saying GH will increase visceral fat but I doubt very much it would help. GH doesn't increase your metabolism, it helps mobilize fat when you are in a calorie deficit.

I'm sorry bro, but I just don't know where you get some of this stuff. Visceral fat loss, i.e., central/abdominal lipolysis, is literally the primary purpose most use low-dose, i.e., 3-6 IU rhGH for. I mean, just glancing at rhGH (and I know you use it!) should demonstrate it shreds ab fat.

The primary effect of GH (in the basal state) is to promote lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation. The reduction in adipose-tissue mass from GH is due primarily to redistribution of intra-abdominal fat to peripheral depots. Femoral depots certainly contribute, and there is evidence that long-term administration of rhGH results in a significant reduction of visceral adipose tissue.



From Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563

 

[Brock456]

I'm sorry bro, but I just don't know where you get some of this stuff. Visceral fat loss, i.e., central/abdominal lipolysis, is literally the primary purpose most use low-dose, i.e., 3-6 IU rhGH for. I mean, just glancing at rhGH (and I know you use it!) should demonstrate it shreds ab fat.

The primary effect of GH (in the basal state) is to promote lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation. The reduction in adipose-tissue mass from GH is due primarily to redistribution of intra-abdominal fat to peripheral depots. Femoral depots certainly contribute, and there is evidence that long-term administration of rhGH results in a significant reduction of visceral adipose tissue.

View attachment 148044

From Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563

Thank you for this post with ref brother

 

[Type-IIx]

Thank you for this post with ref brother

Np! You've got pretty damn good IGF-I levels presently. You'd probably be a GREAT responder to rhGH BUT with your IGF-I levels 2IU is likely close to a mere replacement dose. If 3IU is merely double your natural endogenous levels, well you make the inferences and risk-reward analysis yourself. My observation is that you're likely a GH hyperresponder (test increases basal GH quite a bit) hence the high IGF-I serum.

 

[alfresco]

Why blast (if I read your post correctly)?

You can make plenty of gains on TRT if you pay attention to all the variables.

What is your experience with AAS?

Get all your blood tests in range before you move forward.

And don’t overeat. You will regret it if not now but most certainly in the future.

A conservative approach I know but I only want the best for you.

 

[Brock456]

Why blast (if I read your post correctly)?

You can make plenty of gains on TRT if you pay attention to all the variables.

What is your experience with AAS?

Get all your blood tests in range before you move forward.

And don’t overeat. You will regret it if not now but most certainly in the future.

A conservative approach I know but I only want the best for you.

Why blast? Why does anyone blast? Lol

the purpose of this thread isn’t about me blasting. It’s about starting 2-3iu/day with TRT.

blood work is done every 3-4 months and in range.

I’m ecto. Gaining is hard for me. 5K calories is not a lot for me. It’s certainly not overeating.

 

[alfresco]

Why blast? Why does anyone blast? Lol

the purpose of this thread isn’t about me blasting. It’s about starting 2-3iu/day with TRT.

blood work is done every 3-4 months and in range.

I’m ecto. Gaining is hard for me. 5K calories is not a lot for me. It’s certainly not overeating.

Just said goals seem to me to be in direct conflict with parts of your ‘protocol’. But hey, what do know.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Kaladryn]

I'm sorry bro, but I just don't know where you get some of this stuff. Visceral fat loss, i.e., central/abdominal lipolysis, is literally the primary purpose most use low-dose, i.e., 3-6 IU rhGH for. I mean, just glancing at rhGH (and I know you use it!) should demonstrate it shreds ab fat.

The primary effect of GH (in the basal state) is to promote lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation. The reduction in adipose-tissue mass from GH is due primarily to redistribution of intra-abdominal fat to peripheral depots. Femoral depots certainly contribute, and there is evidence that long-term administration of rhGH results in a significant reduction of visceral adipose tissue.

View attachment 148044

From Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563

Where do YOU get this stuff?!

I'm sorry bro, but I just don't know where you get some of this stuff. Visceral fat loss, i.e., central/abdominal lipolysis, is literally the primary purpose most use low-dose, i.e., 3-6 IU rhGH for. I mean, just glancing at rhGH (and I know you use it!) should demonstrate it shreds ab fat.

The primary effect of GH (in the basal state) is to promote lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation. The reduction in adipose-tissue mass from GH is due primarily to redistribution of intra-abdominal fat to peripheral depots. Femoral depots certainly contribute, and there is evidence that long-term administration of rhGH results in a significant reduction of visceral adipose tissue.

View attachment 148044

From Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563

This is textbook information that doesn't translate well to real life and bodybuilding. Insulin resistance IS associated with visceral fat gain and using GH used at bodybuilding doses definitely causes some level of insulin resistance. GH is always going to show fatloss in studies on average people, and a lot of that is going to be visceral.

I stand by my statement, "visceral fatloss is not what GH is known for in bodybuilding." What it is "known" for is "bubbleguts" (whether or not that is real is another discussion).

 

[Brock456]

Just said goals seem to me to be in direct conflict with parts of your ‘protocol’. But hey, what do know.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

What do you mean?

I think we are misunderstanding each other.

Goals of using GH are not same as my general goals.

 

[NEMSZ]

What do you mean?

I think we are misunderstanding each other.

Goals of using GH are not same as my general goals.

I’ll go ahead and say yea, use that shit, even if your natural IGF is on the higher range, there’s been plenty of guys who did before and after GH bloodwork and they always returned to baseline levels of IGF (unlike test levels)...

If all your bloods and health is in check, I don’t see anything wrong with GH in that range, you’ll only get benefits... I’d also recommend using metformin, #1 because the health benefits of it far outweigh anything else, and it would help with any insulin resistance from GH, which shouldn’t be much at 2-3iu if you’re eating clean foods...

 

[Brock456]

Np! You've got pretty damn good IGF-I levels presently. You'd probably be a GREAT responder to rhGH BUT with your IGF-I levels 2IU is likely close to a mere replacement dose. If 3IU is merely double your natural endogenous levels, well you make the inferences and risk-reward analysis yourself. My observation is that you're likely a GH hyperresponder (test increases basal GH quite a bit) hence the high IGF-I serum.

I’m new to GH, never got into it.

Is it similar to test whereas if my natural IGF is 317, using GH will suppress my natural production, and whenever (if) I come off GH, it will be much lower than 317?

 

[Type-IIx]

I’m new to GH, never got into it.

Is it similar to test whereas if my natural IGF is 317, using GH will suppress my natural production, and whenever (if) I come off GH, it will be much lower than 317?

GH only suppresses basal secretion for about 1 day post-injection (some variance dependent upon the route, i.e., subq vs. IM). After that, you'll return to your natural endogenous secretion. Pulsatile secretion does escape suppression and you'll get some very slight pulses even during the day post-injection, but miniscule in amplitude.

 

[Brock456]

Trying to decide if I should start now or wait.

My wife and I just had our 2nd child so sleep is not great. I don’t know if there’s a point in running GH if I’m waking up 2-3 times in middle of night and somewhat stressed out?

I was thinking wait a couple months until baby is sleeping through the night.

 

[Tomgrass]

The more i read the more convinced i am that for regular guy who loves fitness much better in terms of keeping lean would be injectible carnitine then very low dose gh.