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I challenge anyone...

First for TMuscle with his little bullshit barbs he likes to throw...dont beat around the bush and be a little mouse...state your problem...seen your sarcastic comments more than a couple times....dont let me sit here and think you are not much of a man....state your problem and Ill respond.

Ive seen you get pissed off ever since that thread was put up that delved into that I am doing pretty well for myself financially....so this is for Tmuscle anyone else that is pissed off that im doing somewhat financially well now....SCREW YOU....and you know why I can say that with no qualms? Because over a decade ago I was poorer than any AND I MEAN ANY person in this forum. I had nothing....Lost my car, lost my business, lost every bit of my savings, lost my credit, lost my dignity, lost my ego, lost everything....and multi thousands of dollars in debt all because of one of the many little rats we have in the bodybuilding industry. What did i do? Bitch and moan like everyone else does? Nope...I pulled my laces tight and started from scratch and took a menial job, took another menial job, and rebuilt and rebuilt and worked my ass off to the bone to get where I am now....which is making products for supplement companies in the industry and secondarily selling raw ingredients to the public among other ventures. I made it all the way back up.....and I remember being in my warehouse at 2am in the morning 7 years ago packing up boxes to go out thinking "holy shit is this worth it?, Im freaking tired".....so if you got a problem with that Tmuscle.....Screw you....Work your ass off at something and make yourself a success or quit bitching otherwise.


On to the next subject.....

There is nothing wrong with losing our egos; sometimes we need to be brought to our knees. Obviously amazing things have happened for you!

I was going to post on protein consumption but that would be de-minimis following up after yours.
 
DC, I'm wondering if you can help me with an experiment. I have the damndest time eating enough protein and I'm finally going to give a three month run of chugging as much protein drinks as I can in order to fill in the gap. I simply don't have what it takes to eat chicken and tuna all day.

So I'd like to get a gallon jug and put 200 grams of protein in it and sip on it throughout the day. A gallon of water is a good thing. So now it comes down to protein choice. I am one of those people who get very, well, full on protein shakes. I love my casein/whey/egg/mpi blend I get from you. It makes a nice long lasting and tasty protein drink mixed with peanut butter, bananas, a raw egg and some lecithin to emulsify it.

But what I really need now is something I can drink that doesnt slow me down and rock me out. I definitely feel checked out after drinking heavier stuff.

My goal here is to consume this protein as if it was just the water I know I need to drink throughout the day. I'll still eat my big meals, but this 200 grams of extra protein will really fill in my day.

So I was thinking of two options.

1) Whey Protein Isolate - the most purest I can get from your store.

2) hydrolyzed whey - super acidic, but if I put sugar free lemonade powder in it, and diluted it enough, I bet it would be fine.

With all that in mind, what would you recommend to someone who gets gassy and bloated and slowed down by most protein shakes. SOmeone who wants to just drink on something that doesn't slow me down and I'll still be ready for my next meal. Does what I'm asking for make sense?

Please enlighten me. I've hung out at 215 for months now and I know I'm probably only getting 150-200 grams of protein a day. I work for myself and as you know, it's like I've got five things I'm supposed to be doing at any given moment. So anything I can make and just sip on, without it making me feel full, will be a great advantage to me.

Thanks in advance!

PS Glad to see the Isolyze is still being sold. I don't know if you know this, but I was the one who designed the label for you. Would love to do more work for you in the future...
 
One last thing i would like to state (im looking for the Tarnpolosky and Russian studies currently)....I dont want anybody and I truly mean this....anybody to buy protein powder from my site due to anything they read on this thread.....if you want to increase protein intake either eat it or buy it from Synthetek or some other place if you want to use protein powder. ( I dont want Tmuscle thinking Im trying to pad my pockets, when in reality you make jack crap on protein powder for profit (heavy to ship and profit margin sucks).

As always
1) Train the way YOU PERSONALLY want to train
2) Eat the way you want to eat
3) Use supplements only if you want to because you have studied them relentlessly and think that certain supplement will help you
4) If someone has to tell you steroids work and you now think that person is a guru because they told you steroids work please go buy an "Im an idiot" shirt and wear it every day
 
due to lack of scientific interest in what we do , there are no way to prove or disprove. no one conducted or likely to conduct a research on enhanced bodybuilders.
the only way the op can conduct a challenge without being a...is to put a prize to someone that will do so. that is how its done, if you are 100% sure , put your assets on the line , you might be a hero..... pay for it mate. as the lack of evidence does not prove anyone position.
 
First for TMuscle with his little bullshit barbs he likes to throw...dont beat around the bush and be a little mouse...state your problem...seen your sarcastic comments more than a couple times....dont let me sit here and think you are not much of a man....state your problem and Ill respond.

Ive seen you get pissed off ever since that thread was put up that delved into that I am doing pretty well for myself financially....so this is for Tmuscle anyone else that is pissed off that im doing somewhat financially well now....SCREW YOU....and you know why I can say that with no qualms? Because over a decade ago I was poorer than any AND I MEAN ANY person in this forum. I had nothing....Lost my car, lost my business, lost every bit of my savings, lost my credit, lost my dignity, lost my ego, lost everything....and multi thousands of dollars in debt all because of one of the many little rats we have in the bodybuilding industry. What did i do? Bitch and moan like everyone else does? Nope...I pulled my laces tight and started from scratch and took a menial job, took another menial job, and rebuilt and rebuilt and worked my ass off to the bone to get where I am now....which is making products for supplement companies in the industry and secondarily selling raw ingredients to the public among other ventures. I made it all the way back up.....and I remember being in my warehouse at 2am in the morning 7 years ago packing up boxes to go out thinking "holy shit is this worth it?, Im freaking tired".....so if you got a problem with that Tmuscle.....Screw you....Work your ass off at something and make yourself a success or quit bitching otherwise.


On to the next subject.....

i actually don't have a problem with you. i didn't know that my comments would hurt you so much. i am glad you have found success, i didn't know you were poor from the start. i think true protein sells great protein and i suggested to many people in real life that i think true protein is the best source of protein supplements, so you think i have something against your company??? are you kidding me here? i supported true protein from day one, with no sponsorship or a damn thing in it for me, i just thought dante was a good fella and that i always like to support good companies

why do i make these sarcastic comments? to stir discussion...oh wait...aren't we on a discussion board?, where people can freely express their own thoughts and opinions?

the only thing that i personally don't believe in is eating that much protein and that DC training is the end-all-be-all training system other people make it out to be. i am entitled to my own opinions. if everyone follows the grain your status becomes a bit of a dictatorship, where is the freedom for people to express on a discussion board about training if everyone believes that 500grams of protein is the ultimate end all be all of training diet. your insult towards me just because i mentioned your name shows that to great effect

how is what i said a barb? just because i mentioned your name and added a smiley face to it means that i mean to tarnish your name? did i add any negative comment about you concerning 2gr/lb is bad?

you say i'm not a hard worker, and "screw you tmuscle" but you don't know a thing about me, other than from my posts where i am still quite anonymous, so who is throwing the salt now. i thought you were above that
 
oh and for the record that thread you made about yourself beginning to be successful, and i made some comment about you being warren buffet or some shit like that,

WAS MEANT TO BE A JOKE. TO INDUCE LAUGHTER. LIKE HA HA HA, HE HE HE, THAT STUFF. DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

you think i'm jealous of your success? no, i'm happy for you, genuinely. especially since you have a family of your own and kids to feed.

hows that for throwing a barb, jesus christ
 
if you are too thick brained to comprehend what i just said in the last two comments regarding the steve kuclo thread, arguing with you would be pointless

i have nothing further to add
 
Fern (1991) compared body mass gains using 3.3 versus 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. After 4 weeks, the 3.3 group had larger gains. Meredith et al. (1992) found the addition of 23 grams of protein per day enhanced muscle gains.

It is interesting to note that Consolazio et al. (1975) Marabel et al. (1979), and Dragan et al. (1985) all reported larger increases in strength, lean body mass (LBM) and nitrogen with much higher protein intakes (3.3, 2.8, and 3.5 g/kg/d respectively). These reports tend to corroborate the more anecdotal beliefs of weight lifters that extremely high dietary protein intakes are essential for optimal muscular development.

****just some studies you guys can look up if you want ( I got date night tonite and i got to get ready )

My opinion? Many ways skin a cat but i do like the TEF way of doing things when trying to gain muscular weight....
 
GREAT INFO

Info like this, is what makes this board the best.

“How much protein?” This has probably been the single most asked question in muscle-building and sports nutrition history. What better place to go for answers than straight to one of the world’s top researchers in the field – Dr. Peter Lemon

Kostas: let’s start off now with the most basic question on protein – how much? What does the latest research say? In particular, we’re most interested in protein needs for strength and hypertrophy.

Dr. Lemon: Well, there’s still a controversy as to how much is really needed. Starting back in the mid 1980s, there was quite a bit of interest in that area. Through the 1990′s and early 2000s, there was some pretty good evidence that protein needs were a little bit higher for exercising individuals than for non-exercising individuals. But the protein needs as determined by researchers weren’t quite as high as what a lot of athletes were using.

If you look at the methods that are used trying to measure muscle growth acutely, which means, over a short time period immediately following ingestion of food and training, the requirements are probably under two grams per kilogram of body weight per day. And, of course, as you know, many body builders consume way more than that.

One of the problems is that the scientists have been looking at acute measures; short term measures. It’s very difficult to do a study over months or years to really see what’s happening over the long term. The big problem is, if I do a study and I measure the effect of a training bout or the effect of food intake on acute muscle growth, the changes I get over a two or three hour study period may not be repeated if I studied a person for weeks.

In other words, there is often an adaptation and that’s why I’m not so sure that the results we have are necessarily accurate for elite body builders – certainly not if somebody is taking some anabolic agents, which we know is occurring.

It’s also very difficult to determine because most of the studies are done in novice lifters not in advanced body builders and there are adaptations over time that probably change the requirements. What you might need when you start a program might be very different from what you need later on. And what you need to be a really elite bodybuilder could be very different than a novice.

We did a series of studies through the 1980′s and 1990′s showing that the needs for bodybuilding athletes not taking any anabolic agents were on the order of about 1.6 to 1.8 grams per kg of body mass. However, a number of people that we studied were taking three or four grams per kg per day and certainly were seeing large increases in hypertrophy.

I would say that certainly in the range of 2 grams per kg is where you should start. But, it might be higher than that and we just don’t have the science to answer that question definitively. I guess the short answer to your question is that we still don’t really know exactly how much protein is optimal.

Kostas: I see your point about why we still don’t have definitive answers and that’s probably why “how much protein” is still one of the most common questions, especially, “how much protein should I consume if I want to gain muscle.”

Dr. Lemon: Yes. And you’ll get scientists all the time that say, “Well, 1.5-2.0 grams per kg is all an athlete needs” but I’m not sure it’s as simple as that. It might be that this amount is adequate to maintain a positive nitrogen balance, but it might be that larger amounts actually stimulate growth and there just isn’t a lot of data to support that, because it’s not an easy thing to measure.

Kostas: In the strength and bodybuilding community, a common recommendation I hear all the time is “one gram per pound of body weight” as the minimum.

Dr. Lemon: Yes, and that’s in the same range because, of course, there’s just a little over two pounds in a kilogram. So, one gram per pound of bodyweight would be a little over 2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight, which is probably in the range where most people will be fine.

There’s probably some other caveats, too when making these recommendations. It depends on what type of protein, and it probably depends on when you’re consuming it much more so than how much you’re consuming.

We’ve been more interested in the timing relative to training than we’ve been with the total amount. Or, put another way, it’s probably possible to do better with less protein if you get the protein at the right time of the day. And by time of day, we me the time relates to your training sessions.

Kostas: So you’re saying that timing is more important than quantity?

Dr. Lemon: I’m saying that I think you can get by with less if you consume it in close proximity to the training bout, as opposed to other times in the day.

Kostas: What is your current position stand on pre- and post-workout protein intake?

Dr. Lemon: I think it’s very important. The first three hours following exercise are very important. One should be consuming some carbohydrate and high-quality protein during that time period. The closer to the exercise bout, the better. I also think that within an hour or so prior to working out, a carbohydrate/protein mixture is beneficial.

I even think by extrapolation, if before and after are beneficial, and those have both been shown to be beneficial in the research, then probably during the training bout is important, as well.

All of these things are difficult to study, so I’m going a little bit beyond the data that we have in making that statement, but I think it’s a logical conclusion that some carbohydrate and amino acids before, during, and immediately following training are probably the most important – even more important than how much carbohydrate and protein you get for the day.

Kostas: Do you think protein consumption should depend on the body fat level? For example, will a strength training athlete with lower body fat utilize protein more efficiently than someone who is obese?

Dr. Lemon: I’ve never been asked that question before. If somebody has higher body fat and they’re dropping their energy intake to try and lose body fat, then more protein is important to prevent loss of muscle mass while you’re losing fat mass. But everything being equal, I don’t see why somebody with a higher percentage of fat would handle protein any differently.

Kostas: Considering the differences between an athlete and overweight person, do you think the recommendations for protein per kilo or pound should be based on lean body mass instead of total body weight?

Dr. Lemon: In the strength athletes, there’s a very good relationship between lean mass and total body weight, so I don’t think it really makes much difference. Probably it’s a little bit better if you’re relating protein recommendations to lean mass because obviously, if there’s a big difference in body fat content, then you’re going to be getting a different protein intake if you relate it to total body weight instead of lean mass.

The general recommendations today that go out to the masses are in terms of grams of protein per kilogram of body weight or per pound of body weight. That’s because in the general population, everybody knows their body weight, but a lot of people don’t know their lean body mass, and that’s why it’s historically been done that way.

Obviously, the numbers would change a little bit with each recommendation because your lean mass is a smaller number than your body mass, but there’s a very close relationship between the two in a lean person. Since bodybuilders have such low body fat, I don’t think it really matters if you prescribe by pounds of total bodyweight or pounds of lean bodyweight.

Kostas: Do you think a longer duration study on the effects of a high-protein diet might play a role in justifying higher protein intakes like the amounts that some of the bodybuilders are using successfully? For example, above 2 grams per kilogram per day up to even 3 or 4 grams per kilogram?

Dr. Lemon: That’s a good question. If I could do a study comparing someone consuming 2 grams of protein per day versus someone consuming 4 or 5 grams per kg over several months, I would love to do that because most people find it hard to believe that those high intakes are really beneficial. And yet, for many, many years, many strength athletes have done that.

My philosophy is: where there’s smoke, there’s probably some fire. I think there’s some stimulus that bodybuilders have discovered over months and years of training that the scientists who study weeks or a few months can’t find. And so, there probably is some adaptation that we’re missing in the short term studies. It’s just too difficult to do these types of studies for that length of time.

Kostas: should protein recommendations change for hypocaloric weight loss diets as compared to isocaloric and hypercaloric conditions?

Dr Lemon: Absolutely. There’s some very good evidence showing that if you increase your protein when you’re on a low-calorie diet, you will preserve your muscle mass better than those who don’t. There’s another reason why this is recommended, though. Protein has a higher satiety value, so that you feel full even having eaten less total energy. That gives us a couple reasons for more protein on hypocaloric diets: One, you won’t be hungry on that diet, and if you’re hungry on a diet, you’re not going to stick with it. And two, when you lose weight, you’ll lose a higher percentage from the fat component than from the muscle component.

This is critical because if you start losing muscle, then it’s going to be easier to regain that weight as fat, and, of course, what happens to a large percentage of people who lose a lot of body fat by dieting is they regain it all back and more. So, six months to a year after the diet, they actually weigh more and have a higher body fat than they had before they started.

So, increasing dietary protein is critical and also engaging in some type of strength exercise with a weight loss diet is very important as well, because the higher dietary protein and the strength exercise will really protect muscle so you can actually gain muscle while you’re losing fat.

Kostas: Why are so many people still worried that high-protein diets are unhealthy?

Dr Lemon: That’s a good question. The original data came from the fact that high-protein diets require more work for the kidney in order to excrete the excess Nitrogen. However, a number of studies have shown that a normally functioning kidney can easily handle intakes of protein into the two, three grams per kg range, maybe even higher. I’m not sure where or why that fear continues to be out there. I think a bigger concern with high-protein intakes is the possibility of dehydration.

Kostas: It seems there are always debates on all these subjects even after all thse years of research and even the experts don’t agree.

Dr. Lemon: It’s very difficult to answer these questions. You talk to me and I give you my ideas of how it works, then you talk to someone else who is equally qualified and they’ll have a different opinion. For the average strength trainer, that makes it all really confusing.

I can propose a lot of theoretical things that would be beneficial, but when we actually test them, they’re ultimately not beneficial because there are a lot of redundancies in the bodily system that prevent these things from working the way that we think they will. In other words, it’s just a lot more complex than many people propose.

That’s why I think the best experiments are these more longitudinal studies where we take two groups, and one group gets the treatment, while the other group doesn’t, and we keep every other variable controlled as best as we can. Then at the end we see whether one group did better than the other. But very few studies are performed like that.

Also, many of them are done in novice strength trainers and not in individuals who have trained for ten years, because the response is so much greater in novices and researchers want to maximize their opportunity to find a significant change.

I guess the good news is a lot of things work because it’s relatively easy to get big and strong if you’re going to work hard at it. I came to the conclusion with all the different training programs out there — and there are thousands of training programs – that every expert has a different idea of how to train, and yet they all can work. So that’s the good news.

If you just put an overload on the muscle, we know that it’s going to respond, and some of the finer points of exactly how to do that don’t seem to really matter as much. It might be true with food intake, too. There’s a lot of ways that will work as long as you get the basic nutrients in place.

But the real problem part is that they want to get the results faster without having to work hard, too. That’s why the supplement industry has taken off because people think, “Well, gee, I can just ingest these pills and that will make me big and strong.”

A lot of the early work we did showed clearly that very few of these supplements work unless you’re training very hard. So, it’s not just the supplement, it’s the interaction. You benefit more from your training if you have the right nutrient mixture, but if you’re not training hard, it really doesn’t make any difference. You certainly can’t just pop these pills and drink these shakes and get big and strong. If you could, everyone would be looking like that.
 
if you are too thick brained to comprehend what i just said in the last two comments regarding the steve kuclo thread, arguing with you would be pointless

i have nothing further to add

I know what kidding is and I know what sarcasm is...and I think you do to. I would have much more respect if you said "This is my problem I have with you..."
 
Last edited:
I don't need need to even adress all those ad personam insults. First of all, I'm not professional bodybuilder. I'm just computer programmer and science freak (and that is what i'm damn good at, hehe) who lifts from time to time. You insult yourself going ad personam showing your stupid you are to resort to this kind of methods ;)

Dante this research is old. There are new, more up to date studies which show protein as little as 1.5g per kg of bodyweight to be sufficient. I will go into details about this later as I have competition tommorow and have to get some rest ;)

To claim that bodybuilders are ahead of anyone in the field of nutrition is ludicrous :D I am sorry but we were ahead of anyone maybe 40 years ago, but our sport shifted to whole different region of science ;) I enjoy seeing Layne Norton getting bashed by muscleheads who think their opinion holds any significance because they are IFBB pros when he's got phd and spent years of hise life analysing this subject to every detail. It's really funny becouse if you wasn't there you won't understand it. You simple cannot comprehend complexities and amount of knowledge required to understand any science on phd level so please, fucking please, stop underestimating scientists. You make yourself look stupid.

Anyway, what is your take on leangains diet Dante? They have results, research, basicly everything to back it up. Of course there are scams and people who try to make it look like some revolutionary method to look like guys on juice without juice, but when you look at it as an alternative method which is as effective (if not more) than eating every N hours then what?
 
I look my best on 10-12 meals/protein drinks, 50 grams if protein per meal, 500 calories per meal. That's 500-600 grams protein, 5000-6000 calories. I look very full and lean this way. Studies mean jack shit..! Fuck studies!!! The mirror reflects the truth.
 
I have to throw out the famous Shelby Starnes line here..

You have theory, I have results....

I am adding absolutely nothing to this conversation, but have been looking for a place to post Shelby's comment cause I think it's cool..haha
 
Seems a bit immature and like something I would expect to see on bodybuilding.com to challenge and demand answers...

The subject greatly interests me by why would I want to sit here on a Friday night spending hours looking up exact links in studies (many of which I pay to read) in order to prove anything to you...

DC really went out of his way to provide a ton of detailed information and I hope it is appriecated.
 
I look my best on 10-12 meals/protein drinks, 50 grams if protein per meal, 500 calories per meal. That's 500-600 grams protein, 5000-6000 calories. I look very full and lean this way. Studies mean jack shit..! Fuck studies!!! The mirror reflects the truth.

John, you are right about that statement. Wasn't it the same researchers and experts in their fields at one time say That Steriods do not promote muscular gains or strength? :rolleyes: :D
 
This is extremely easy to to figure out. Take the physiques of bodybuilders with absurd protien intakes in excess of 500 grams a day and put them next ot bodybuilders taking in 150-200 grams per day. See whose bigger? Ill put my money on the guys all getting 300+ grams a day or a minimum of 1.5 G per lb of bodyweight being more muscular.
 
I don't need need to even adress all those ad personam insults. First of all, I'm not professional bodybuilder. I'm just computer programmer and science freak (and that is what i'm damn good at, hehe) who lifts from time to time. You insult yourself going ad personam showing your stupid you are to resort to this kind of methods ;)

Dante this research is old. There are new, more up to date studies which show protein as little as 1.5g per kg of bodyweight to be sufficient. I will go into details about this later as I have competition tommorow and have to get some rest ;)

To claim that bodybuilders are ahead of anyone in the field of nutrition is ludicrous :D I am sorry but we were ahead of anyone maybe 40 years ago, but our sport shifted to whole different region of science ;) I enjoy seeing Layne Norton getting bashed by muscleheads who think their opinion holds any significance because they are IFBB pros when he's got phd and spent years of hise life analysing this subject to every detail. It's really funny becouse if you wasn't there you won't understand it. You simple cannot comprehend complexities and amount of knowledge required to understand any science on phd level so please, fucking please, stop underestimating scientists. You make yourself look stupid.

Anyway, what is your take on leangains diet Dante? They have results, research, basicly everything to back it up. Of course there are scams and people who try to make it look like some revolutionary method to look like guys on juice without juice, but when you look at it as an alternative method which is as effective (if not more) than eating every N hours then what?

I don't under estimate scientists but I don't think their interest lies in how much muscle can be put on by eating loads of protein; the scientists that are interested in muscle mass are the ones experimenting with research chemicals.

Here is what I have observed over many years; if you are great at any sport you do extreme things. I have watched my friends (some Pro's) eat high protein diets, low fat diets, high carb diets, high fat-low carb-high protein diets and they seemed to all work but were all extreme to some one outside the bodybuilding circle.
 
I don't need need to even adress all those ad personam insults. First of all, I'm not professional bodybuilder. I'm just computer programmer and science freak (and that is what i'm damn good at, hehe) who lifts from time to time. You insult yourself going ad personam showing your stupid you are to resort to this kind of methods ;)

Dante this research is old. There are new, more up to date studies which show protein as little as 1.5g per kg of bodyweight to be sufficient. I will go into details about this later as I have competition tommorow and have to get some rest ;)

To claim that bodybuilders are ahead of anyone in the field of nutrition is ludicrous :D I am sorry but we were ahead of anyone maybe 40 years ago, but our sport shifted to whole different region of science ;) I enjoy seeing Layne Norton getting bashed by muscleheads who think their opinion holds any significance because they are IFBB pros when he's got phd and spent years of hise life analysing this subject to every detail. It's really funny becouse if you wasn't there you won't understand it. You simple cannot comprehend complexities and amount of knowledge required to understand any science on phd level so please, fucking please, stop underestimating scientists. You make yourself look stupid.

Anyway, what is your take on leangains diet Dante? They have results, research, basicly everything to back it up. Of course there are scams and people who try to make it look like some revolutionary method to look like guys on juice without juice, but when you look at it as an alternative method which is as effective (if not more) than eating every N hours then what?

Deciever you are going "all in" on one guys opinions. Dr Peter Lemon isnt old school...he is reknowned in this field. On a personal note I am someone who looks at science and "power in numbers" and puts it together for himself....because past experiences have told me "power in numbers" proves out much of the time. When two guys in lab coats/science shows that things like OKG and Ribose are the greatest things since sliced bread on paper...but in real life 198 out of 200 bodybuilders say "this stuff didnt do jack crap for me"...I tend to go with power in numbers there. Ive trained alot of guys, had to put alot of muscle on people (alot of people stuck at plateaus who were advanced)...most of the time i had to move their protein intake upward to get them past those plateaus (with that comes an increased water intake for health reasons)....I do not know many freak massive bodybuilders who have not put time in at the 1.5 to 2 gram per pound range of protien intake. Everyone and their brother uses Nasser El Sonbaty as their low protein example (I think he stated 100 grams of protien a day) but not reported was back in the 90's when Nasser "wasnt Nasser" size yet...he borrowed Milos Sarcev's journals and upped his protein intake tremendously due to Milos's recommendations and made a jump in muscle mass that was ridiculous...and started dominating all the way up to the 2nd place Olympic level.

I know John Meadows is very high (as are alot of people) on Dr Eric Serrano

Interviewer: Let's start with some basic questions, Dr. Serrano. How much protein does a guy need if he's training heavy for strength and size?

Dr. Eric Serrano: That's an easy answer: if you're a male, 1 to 1.5 grams per pound. The maximum would be two grams per pound if you're training extremely heavy plus doing aerobic exercise. If you're female, 0.8 grams per pound is sufficient. These recommendations are for people who aren't taking anabolic steroids, of course.


Thats for people who AREN'T taking steroids!

Alot of people think Dr Scott Connelly is at the apex of all things protein/metabolism related

QUESTION: In an off-season scenario, in a 24 hour period...how many grams of protein per pound of bodyweight do you think is required to
gain the maximum amount of muscle?

Dr. Connelly said you need a 30 gram dose of animal protein every 3 to 4 hours to get your 3 grams of leucine.


DR SCOTT CONNELLY's RESPONSE:


The optimal averaged 24 hour intake of dietary protein to maximize lean body mass gains induced by RT is not precisely known. The best sophisticated data comes from a study in which daily protein intake was varied from 1-3 grams per kilogram of body weight and stable isotope methodology was used to assess protein "turnover" (composite rates of synthesis vs breakdown).

This study was significant in that:

Rates of both synthesis and breakdown (hence total turnover) increased linearly with increasing protein dose.
Increases in synthesis and breakdown when plotted produced virtually super-imposable graphics, thus suggesting that the two metrics of protein balance literally cancelled one another out.
Despite the above, increases in lean body mass gain basically doubled with every increment in protein intake.
What this suggests is that the relationship between total 24 hour intake of protein and muscle gain with effective RT protocols is essentially linear (at least within the range of this study, i.e. 3 gr/kg/day).

The subjects in the study struggled to get to 3 gr/kg/day and thus no data was collected beyond this point.

Another important point is that the protein that was ingested was usual and customary whole food cooked protein sources which reliably produced superior nitrogen retention than do proteins with very rapid digestion and assimilation characteristics and thus cannot be extrapolated to elemental protein diets (free form aminos or hydrolysates) or rapidly assimilated proteins such as whey and soy.

Whey is useful in one context in particular and that is the post workout period (from immediately after training up to 3 hours later) in which the exercise induced increment in fractional rates of muscle protein synthesis can be synergistic-ally augmented by the ingestion of a rapidly assimilated complete protein source (with a PDCAAS of > 1.0 or greater) that delivers net 3 grams of leucine. The duration of this threshold dose of whey lasts only about 3 hours in humans, so it is more efficient to use the whey post workout and then load up on more slowly assimilated proteins during the rest of the day to optimize whole body protein metabolism and nitrogen retention.


Writing this post is a guy who currently only takes in probably 1 gram per pound of bodyweight (with alot of BCAA's) but IM a guy trying to get smaller over time (as I am in my 40's now) and am slowly taking it down.....I spent about 15 plus years at 2 grams per pound and Im a personal believer because I spent alot of experimentation (years) trying higher carb, nutrient partitioning(<--useless for muscle mass) , anabolic diet, high fat, the gamut....etc etc etc...and always came back to what worked
 
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