I challenge anyone...

[Tough Old Man]

"This is my problem I have with you..."

Ok. My wife prefers her shakes via a straw. My problem with you is there are no straws in my order from True Protein.

PT

 

[TNH]

High vs. low protein intake always seems to cause the most heated debates on boards. I find that funny because it is so easy for absolutely anyone to just test out for themselves and draw their own conclusion.
It is a cheap experiment to bump your protein up to 2g per lb of body weight for 2-3 months and assess your results.

There is one thing I would like to see though...
I want to see pictures of someone that is a very large BB'er that can SWEAR they have only taken in 1g per lb for their entire lifting career. I have a feeling I would not see many pics, but I would hear a ton of guys talk about a pro that does that, or a friend of an uncle's girlfriend that does it.

I don't want to come across as a high protein maniac... I think it is odd when anyone from the high or low protein camp defends their opinion too strongly. I just feel that I need 2g per lb to be my best, and if I didn't need that, I would be glad to report that 1g worked for me... it is what it is. It is weird that anyone would have an ulterior motive to push high or low protein intake, but I guess there are strange people out there.

BTW, this post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, this thread just got me thinking about some of the heated arguments I have seen over the years that led to bannings, ended friendships, and other pretty extreme stuff, all over a funny argument about how much of a particular macro one consumes.

 

[sonicwaste]

High vs. low protein intake always seems to cause the most heated debates on boards. I find that funny because it is so easy for absolutely anyone to just test out for themselves and draw their own conclusion.
It is a cheap experiment to bump your protein up to 2g per lb of body weight for 2-3 months and assess your results.

There is one thing I would like to see though...
I want to see pictures of someone that is a very large BB'er that can SWEAR they have only taken in 1g per lb for their entire lifting career. I have a feeling I would not see many pics, but I would hear a ton of guys talk about a pro that does that, or a friend of an uncle's girlfriend that does it.

I don't want to come across as a high protein maniac... I think it is odd when anyone from the high or low protein camp defends their opinion too strongly. I just feel that I need 2g per lb to be my best, and if I didn't need that, I would be glad to report that 1g worked for me... it is what it is. It is weird that anyone would have an ulterior motive to push high or low protein intake, but I guess there are strange people out there.

BTW, this post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, this thread just got me thinking about some of the heated arguments I have seen over the years that led to bannings, ended friendships, and other pretty extreme stuff, all over a funny argument about how much of a particular macro one consumes.

Well said.

I don't remember if this has been posted in this thread, but...

There was a fairly recent study by Tipton and Wolfe, that showed they found very little need to increase protein intake over 2g per KG.

This was because the increases above 2g/kg lead to a significantly increased rate of protein oxidation. The study showed that much of the protein consumed above 2g/kg was oxidized.

 

[turbobusa]

... to give me ANY scientific proof that eating over 2g of protein per kg of bodyweight does ANY good to anyone in terms of protein synthesis.
... to give ma ANY scientific proof that eating more than 3 times a day does any good to anyone. I don't wanna see general research which is mostly about eating patterns, I wanna see a study on a group of trained individuals who ate exactly same thing just split 3 times and 6 times a day.
... to give me any scientific proof that breakfast is something important like everyone preaches.

And I don't wanna see any theories. I can make billion of theories about everything, vast majority of which would turn out to be false. Research in natural sciences is generally nothing hypothetical or unpractical: you take a group of people, divide them into groups, see what happens and THEN you try to explain what happened. Theoretical doesn't equal hypothetical.

I don't know where you would find those scientific studies but i know what does and does not work for me . 34 yrs under heavy iron is my study.
High protein(at least 1.5 grams per lb of lean body wt is good for me.
I know from experience during heavy high volume training a bit more maybe 2 grams per pound helps. Frequent meals work a bit better too. Why don't you take another couple decades and research it for yourself?
Put your energy into learning what works for YOU. There is very little new under the sun. Many of the training strategys with various names are the same old same old with slight or no variation with new names attached.
It really is not that complicated. Try heavy compound based moves with a decent amount of volume. Heavy squats deads rows benches militarys
power cleans etc.During the first 16 weeks of that type of training eat a min of 3lbs red meat along with your other food sources . Throw in a little protein powder too. Next 16 weeks same workout now cut your protein to 1 gram for every kilo of lbm getting your protein in any fashion you choose.
If you are getting enough rest and provided you don't train like a health club pussy You will find your answer. To really find out do the lower protein
part of the self discovery first. I think you will be suprised.
This is absolutely not meant to be a smartass. It's just important to answer the questions and know what works for you. You may well grow like a mfer on 50 grams of protein but its highly unlikely. either way can't hurt to check it out. Would you rather know what works for you or read some shit by a group of guys that tell you it won't when in fact many bbers and plers know what is tryed and true. Too much time spent tring to find the easy way around(eating is a chore at certain levels)and not enough time finding what works for self . Same with training with some people. talk talk talk and not enough callous farming!Good luck hope you find your answers.
Thanks for listening to my .2 T Oh yeah not so long ago the pdr stated clearly
that aas use does not enhance physical performance. That was in print for many years.That is a scientific publication for sure. Us old farts knew that was some bullshit in print a long long time ago. You can't read yoyr self into strength and size. That I gurantee, T

 

[jay_dub]

I've typically always been at about the 1.5 gram per lb mark. I've been stuck at 240 lbs for a while now.

For the next 3 months I'll bump it to 2 grams and see what happens.

Thanks for info as always Dante.

 

[mountaindog1]

Its about 3:30 am my time, and I woke up to get a glass of raw milk. So while I am enjoying it, Ill throw in my two cents as well, then go back to bed.

I think the initial question was around protein intake, and I also saw Lean Gains aka IM mentioned, so I'll give you my two cents on both.

I love intermittent fasting for a few things. I have been trying and will always try to perfect a way of eating that is maximally healthy, yet also allows for the most muscle growth. They are not mutually exclusive if well thought out.

IM is a great way to attack the heath side of this. I have seen improvements in fasting glucose, reductions in tryglcerides (probably just due to lower carbs), and other benefits to health markers. I have also seen this approach chew up alot of fat. So I LIKE it. What I have not seen, is someone who is advanced take it up a notch, or someone who is intermediate grow into being advanced. It is not the ultimate eating system for muscle growth, and it's effect in that regaurd lessens as the athlete gets more trained/advanced.
More steady (5 to 6) feedings a day with moderate levels of protein win out in the quest for ultimate size.

In terms of protein amounts, I see the best results with 1 to 1.5 grams per lb, and sometimes more if the person has an insane metabolism. I do think people can handle more in short bursts, but I think it is unhealthy due to digestive stress to eat something like 600 grams per day for years on end.

Dante mentioned Dr. Serrano. He is the absolute best person I know at taking scientific data and determining it's usefulness for various populations. He absolutely HATES other doctors and people who see a few studies and missapply findings when they read what they want to read on Pubmed. I have seen him DESTROY other world renowned coaches in person when they did this. In fact, just recently I was visiting him while a top coach from Europe was there (not bodybuilding) and he kept quoting studies to support his theories and Serrano basically made him look foolish when he showed him 20 different reasons why the results mean nothing to what he was trying to achieve..

so what does all this mean?....eat big to get big, but don't eat stupid big so you stay healthier longer - that's my scientific explanation..

JM