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I wonder if that’s why people say primo lowers their sex drive? I always found that odd since it’s a DHT based drug, you’d think it would raise drive...but if it’s tanking estrogen in some then it makes sense their sex drive would drop.
Good data. What was the test/primo dosage? Any negative sides with that e2?
It's because the concept of a "DHT based" AAS is utter fiction. I don't know where this concept comes from, but it's taken firm root in the minds of every bodybuilder and touted as fact. Primo is a commercially available, non-aromatizatible, non-5α reducable testosterone derivative. There is a structural distinction between 19-nortestosterone/nandrolone and testosterone-based AAS, but what in the FUCK is this bad broscience that has people thinking primo is a DHT derivative? So, like Masteron, I believe its C-3 ketone group is reduced ("similar to DHT"), that makes it "a DHT?" It's a very simplistic and erroneous assumption to think that modification at that position makes primo affect libido or hair loss the way that DHT does. If anything, it just makes it a weak active ligand despite tight binding to the AR.
Lol I’ll take your word for it but you also did already contribute some useful information to the thread topic on page 1 so you’re cool in my book
You can’t believe people think about their bloodwork and monitor that? You don’t even put much thought into it? Ok thanks bahahaha
Now that you've insulted 30% of the board you should explain how each oxidation state at each carbon atom and each added alkyl chain changes the character of each steroid. Forget the esters. stick to the base compound unless is is a 17 alpha alkylation. You can stay away from the 2.3 pyrazol rings too.
Very fair, you're a pragmatist. Some of us do appreciate how well the Performance enhancers work though and it's interesting to discuss differences/"the model"... how well they work shouldn't be undersold if being honest bro.
Tuesday morning at 7:30 am I have blood work, chest x-ray, and ECG.
The point is your post was arrogant and insulting. This goes beyond organic chemistry. There is plenty out in the scientific literature if you really want to study it. Bro-logic will predominate since almost no one will study these things at a level to understand the nuances of them and really nothing is out there used in combination at bodybuilding doses. Really almost no literature is published where they have been used as such. The reason these folks refer to Primo as a DHT derivative is because it is C4-C5 reduced. That makes the compound impossible to aromatize to estrogen. It is also C1-C2 unsaturated and C1 methylated and that seems to attenuate androgenic effects.What you may have had in mind is that simple modification does not equate to all the characteristics assigned to dihydrotestosterone, which would be on point. There is no reason to insult.
Watch out for that "DHT receptor" which gets mentioned every once in awhile.
My fault for being arrogant/insulting. My reasons though for wanting to emphasise that the common modification to primo and to mast as not being a DHT derivative (quotes or not) is that it is a mistake to view either of these compounds as related meaningfully to DHT (which is notorious for endogenously causing hair loss/prostate problems) when the exact opposite is true due to their 5α reduction-- they are less likely to "behave as DHT" in any meaningful way. And are actually advantageous because of this (when used within the proper context). I do apologize for lacking tact though, it is definitely an issue. But do you see what I mean with the widespread misconceptions that primo/mast are actually worse in these ways when that CANNOT be true chemically?
I do need to work on not coming off as insulting or worse arrogant though. But I have learned a bit since you last gave me some push back on the myofibrillar/sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (in)distinction and the significance of ribosomal biogenesis that's being elaborated on recently, and for that I thank you. I hate having to keep track of all the moving mTOR pieces (it's an unwieldy thing) but it's relevant for mechanical loading/AAs so necessary... Anyway, if anyone including you wants to actually write up a better imperfect model so guys don't think primo makes their hair fall out I'm up for it.
Yes but DHT bound the AR is going too different than Testosterone bound to the AR as the entire complex is involved in the transcription that will take place.
Just use a topical androgen antagonist for your hair, there's two of them to choose from, problem solved. That frees up some time to worry about other hair-related factors and pathways that really matter.
