If I'm experiencing zero sides...

[cachexic]

Not want he wants to hear I'm sure, and I'm sure he'll do what he wants anyways despite our warnings and advice and I hope it doesn't do any damage if he does choose to go high.

Do you honestly think that's an appropriate comment to make, Cev? First you imply that my goal is to morph into an IFBB pro off one cycle of testosterone, which was a condescending way to word your advice, then now you state that you're sure I will not listen to anyone's advice? Go easy on the assumptions there, sport...you clearly do not know me or how I operate.

 

[RV63T]

the lack of sides isnt a reason to up your dose bro. be thankfull there arent any bad sides. if your making gains with 600mg stick with that there can always and probly will be another cycle. my first was 300mg and was fine.

 

[cachexic]

Do you honestly think that's an appropriate comment to make, Cev? First you imply that my goal is to morph into an IFBB pro off one cycle of testosterone, which was a condescending way to word your advice, then now you state that you're sure I will not listen to anyone's advice? Go easy on the assumptions there, sport...you clearly do not know me or how I operate.

That actually wasn't you, Cev, that said what I enlarged above. It was restless. I apologize for that. But you did state you were sure I would ignore the advice of everyone here. Which I still find inappropriate.

 

[cev79]

Do you honestly think that's an appropriate comment to make, Cev? First you imply that my goal is to morph into an IFBB pro off one cycle of testosterone, which was a condescending way to word your advice, then now you state that you're sure I will not listen to anyone's advice? Go easy on the assumptions there, sport...you clearly do not know me or how I operate.

Did not intend to offend. I was just remembering what it was like when I was young and first started cycling. My apologies. I hope you listen to these guys they know their stuff. Trust me, I was like you, very defensive when anyone tried to contradict what I thought I knew was best. But really, how old are you? Just wondering for the sake of wondering. Most people think you should be around 25 before you start cycling, that's what I was always told. Reach your genetic potential first, then add in the gear. I had that pounded into my brain by people older and wiser than me constantly. It was like the Written Word.

 

[cev79]

That actually wasn't you, Cev, that said what I enlarged above. It was restless. I apologize for that. But you did state you were sure I would ignore the advice of everyone here. Which I still find inappropriate.

bro....chill. I know how you're feeling right now. Kind of ganged up on so you're gonna get a little defensive in return. I do the same thing. When I think I'm sure of something and someone condescends me or contradicts me I'm like a tiger backed into a corner. No one is here to judge you or criticize you, at least most of the guys. They're just trying to help educate you. Judging from your ability to spell things properly, use proper grammar, you seem like an educated young man from a good back ground. I have an IQ of 140 and my father has dinner with Nobel Laureates on a regular basis, so I have issues with pride. And when someone acts or says things that imply they know more than me I get really defensive and instead should listen, mull things over, then react. But people will always have opinions. It's entirely up to you what you choose to do.

 

[paulwigan]

if you are doing 600mg test and the wind blowing the wrong way does not give you a boner then you may have got fake or under dosed gear.
my first cycle at 250 mg per week (karachi sust) made me feel like a bear in mating season.
3 weeksis more than enough to feel it kick in

 

[cachexic]

Well, I'm not annoyed that people here are talking down to me and telling me what is right and wrong in terms of steroid use (even though most people didn't really bother to substantiate their advice with further explanation).

I know my place. I'm new to this shit. That's why I made the thread. Because I'm not sure. So your analysis is a little off base there, Cev. At its core, though, your post was thoughtful and empathetic and I appreciate that.

I just see so much conflicting information on this board. It's easy to get confused. I see one pro saying all first cycles should be no more than 350 mg of gear total. Then I see another saying "You'll be fine at 500-600 mg/wk, it's just testosterone."

I see one pro saying more gear is not better, then I see another pro saying "more gear, more mass, period."

It's difficult to know whose advice to take. That's why I want as many people to contribute to the thread as possible. So I can make the right decision. I'm not trying to morph into the hulk off one cycle. I'm just trying to maximize my gains with minimal side effects. That's all. You only get one first cycle; my receptors are fresh/untouched. I just want to make the most of it.

 

[db006]

heres an idea....do a cycle @ 600mgs for as long as you were planning on it. and THEN assess your results and make a determination. not 2 weeks in cause your not experiencing any sides.

 

[cachexic]

if you are doing 600mg test and the wind blowing the wrong way does not give you a boner then you may have got fake or under dosed gear.
my first cycle at 250 mg per week (karachi sust) made me feel like a bear in mating season.
3 weeksis more than enough to feel it kick in

Hmm. Are the effects supposed to be that dramatic? This is another area where there's conflicting info. Some people say test doesn't really make them feel different. They're considerably stronger in the weight room, sure, but it doesn't change their mood much at all. Then other people say it gives them an unbelievable sense of well-being, and makes them a horny masturbating S.O.B.

It hasn't even been three weeks yet. Will be in a couple days. I'll keep that in mind though.

 

[cev79]

Well, I'm not annoyed that people here are talking down to me and telling me what is right and wrong in terms of steroid use (even though most people didn't really bother to substantiate their advice with further explanation).

I know my place. I'm new to this shit. That's why I made the thread. Because I'm not sure. So your analysis is a little off base there, Cev. At its core, though, your post was thoughtful and empathetic and I appreciate that.

I just see so much conflicting information on this board. It's easy to get confused. I see one pro saying all first cycles should be no more than 350 mg of gear total. Then I see another saying "You'll be fine at 500-600 mg/wk, it's just testosterone."

I see one pro saying more gear is not better, then I see another pro saying "more gear, more mass, period."

It's difficult to know whose advice to take. That's why I want as many people to contribute to the thread as possible. So I can make the right decision. I'm not trying to morph into the hulk off one cycle. I'm just trying to maximize my gains with minimal side effects. That's all. You only get one first cycle; my receptors are fresh/untouched. I just want to make the most of it.

I so totally hear you bro. It is VERY confusing especially at first when you first start. Who do you listen to? It's totally frustrating. I know exactly what you mean, one person saying one thing, another person saying another. I guess in cases like this you go with your gut instinct. Otherwise your head is spinning. But looking at the posts in your thread I'd say a good amount of advice is saying go with less not more for your first cycle. No matter what, AAS is a crap shoot. We ALL respond to it differently, you can't compare yourself to another person doing the same protocol cuz their body is totally different from yours. Regardless, this is a great time for you because you are totally fresh and a solid and safe cycle will give you great results as long as diet and training are spot on, which they seem to be with you. In my experience though on a ton of boards, most guys on their first cycle go with 300 mgs of test per week. That's just the common route taken that I've seen many a time on boards.

 

[cev79]

Hmm. Are the effects supposed to be that dramatic? This is another area where there's conflicting info. Some people say test doesn't really make them feel different. They're considerably stronger in the weight room, sure, but it doesn't change their mood much at all. Then other people say it gives them an unbelievable sense of well-being, and makes them a horny masturbating S.O.B.

It hasn't even been three weeks yet. Will be in a couple days. I'll keep that in mind though.

I personally get a great sense of well being once test kicks in. No aggression except in the gym, my libido stays about the same. Like I just said, it's a crap shoot for everyone.

 

[Stewie Griffon]

Preferably someone with more posts than me?

do not be fooled by post count - the ONLY 2 things post count indicates are:

1 - when you happen to join the board. someone could train 25 years before he/she joins a board

2 - your ability to refrain from trash talking (ie flaming and getting banned)

in no way does post count reflect a person's knowledge or training experience

someone on the board for a 6 months with 100 intelligent posts is far more credible than a 5 year member with 1500 posts - 80% of which are meaningless

i am not saying that applies to any particular member(s) here, just a general statement


now about your question 600mgs a week in my opinion is a bit high for your first cycle, but its not all out crazy. if that is your choice then go with it. about the sides - be happy you don't have any!!! you did say your strength was increasing, thats what you want! after all the strength and muscle effects are whats desired, not the sides.

my first cycle ever was test E, and i didnt get any sides. started at 200mg, up to 300mg and down to 200mg over 6 weeks. i didnt notice much till the 3rd week, like yourself. see how you feel in another 3 weeks before changing anything

 

[maldorf]

I agree that 600 mg/wk is way too much for a first cycle. My first cycle I did 250mg/wk and even after a long PCT i kept about 10 solid pounds.

On diet. One thing I saw was how much you increased your calories. All that is going to do is make you put on bodyfat. I wouldnt have increased it more than 500 cals/day. Do that and run that for 2 weeks and see how you do. Jumping up in cals that much is going to just put you in a surplus and its going to end up around your waist. The protein sounded ok,IMO. Im really dont know a whole lot about nutrition, but I can testify personally to the fact that eating like you are now is going to make you fat.

With the drugs, if you start out at 600 mg now, what are you going to do next cycle when youre not happy with your gains? Increase to 800 mg? Next cycle 1g/wk? YOu see, bodybuilders by nature are never happy with how they look and you will continue to have that desire to grow. You have to show restraint and concentrate on more than just what drugs to take. Like the others have said, AAS are just another tool. AAS are no more a tool than diet, really diet has even more influence. There are so many things that affect how you will grow. YOu are being short sided if you blame your lack of progress solely on the drugs. Also, youve only been at it 3 weeks! If I were you I would cut back to 1/2 what you are taking now, yeah just 300 mg/wk, and call your first 3 weeks a frontload. The first 3 weeks at 600mg/wk will help get your levels up fast and now you can cut back. You wont see less results than you are now by doing it since your levels probably wont fall much at all. YOur levels havent even near peaked yet and youre wanting to take more! Be patient and cut back to 300 mg/wk.

 

[maldorf]

something to add

I might also add the fact that the more you do on cycle, the harder you are going to crash when you come off and youll lose most of it anyhow. Doing a good PCT is really hard to do, and there is noway you can keep all of your gains. IMO, the higher dose you take on cycle, the more you lose post cycle both in total pounds of muscle and %wise. Just my opinion I formed from my experiences over 9 years or so of use.

 

[Fears]

heres an idea....do a cycle @ 600mgs for as long as you were planning on it. and THEN assess your results and make a determination. not 2 weeks in cause your not experiencing any sides.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Long esters take about 3-4 weeks before the "magic" starts. Be patient. You'll look at this differently after 6-8 weeks.

 

[cachexic]

Really good posts. And thoughtful. Insightful. Thanks.

As for my consumption, the jump was high because I was cutting at really low calories because I wanted to get as lean as possible before I started the cycle and got bloated from the test and increased consumption. I'm eating about 3500 calories a day, which isn't much of a surplus at all because I do cardio twice a day. Once in the morning, once at night. On lift days I still do the cardio at night, but replace the morning cardio with my lift. I jump rope outside at night.

Staying reasonably lean is a big priority. I love my lean physique and I would much rather be lean than fat and stronger. I am by no means "strapping on the feedbag."

 

[kid1dakota]

do not be fooled by post count - the ONLY 2 things post count indicates are:

1 - when you happen to join the board. someone could train 25 years before he/she joins a board

2 - your ability to refrain from trash talking (ie flaming and getting banned)

in no way does post count reflect a person's knowledge or training experience

someone on the board for a 6 months with 100 intelligent posts is far more credible than a 5 year member with 1500 posts - 80% of which are meaningless

i am not saying that applies to any particular member(s) here, just a general statement

Very true! There are people on here and many boards who have received an honorary doctorate from the board and have a strong following because they have a high post count or are just ruthless in posting until people believe.

There are guys on here basically bordering on practicing medicine without a license with some of the advice they are giving.They cut and paste from all over the internet and people are buying into the bullshit and really think they are brilliant sad

Even when you point out to them they are not educated enough or credentialed they continue to argue and people continue to follow

Frustrating to me as people go to school and pay dues to be educated and credentialed to be a health care provider.But on the internet I guess people can try be what they wish they were, not what they really are.

 

[RESTLESS1]

That actually wasn't you, Cev, that said what I enlarged above. It was restless. I apologize for that. But you did state you were sure I would ignore the advice of everyone here. Which I still find inappropriate.

i did not say any of this......

 

[maxtrax]

"Bump" or "x2"

Sorry, just trying to get my post count up so i appear more knowledgeable.

Seriously tho. You havent even allowed yourself to grow off 600mgs yet. Maybe this is all you'll need for awhile.

After over a decade of this lifestyle 1200mgs of test is my magic number. I long for the days of 600mgs doing for me. Enjoy it while it last!

Remember once you make a jump you can never go back.

 

[kid1dakota]

"Bump" or "x2"

Sorry, just trying to get my post count up so i appear more knowledgeable.

Seriously tho. You havent even allowed yourself to grow off 600mgs yet. Maybe this is all you'll need for awhile.

After over a decade of this lifestyle 1200mgs of test is my magic number. I long for the days of 600mgs doing for me. Enjoy it while it last!

Remember once you make a jump you can never go back.

You joined july 2005 and this is your first post?? lol

Were you in jail what the hell have you been doing for 5 years!!! lol