IGF-1 INFO- Disappointing

[Jax11]

IGF-1 DES INFO- Disappointing

So I read this study which is disappointing to say the least since I have 5 bottles on the way. The reason Des is the strongest is because it doesn't bind to shit except your gut.

**broken link removed**

 

[EDED]

yep

lr3 too,,,those float around and litterally act like insulin like 'protein' but its no longer growth factor

so its for glucose disposal and good for comp prep...or just wanna look veiny and pumped all the time,,,,,either way i like that mental effect in front of me in the mirror, better than wondering if GH is really making me grow or not ...at a receptor level ahhahaha

anyways, you wont be dissappointed,,,,think about dbol/eq/slin pump put together and tren vascularity ahhahah

 

[NY Muscle]

If this guy growth is true aren't any of you guys and others who take the Des concerned? That would blow my mind if that happened to me.

 

[Jax11]

thats why I'm disappointed I'm to scared to touch this shit now I'll prob end up tossing 5 mg

 

[jared530]

Damn, my DES was on the way too. Im not injecting that if my intestine growth rate will be off the charts.

 

[j8282]

Is the date on this 1996??

 

[EDED]

fellas, chill out, all the stuff we take WILL kill us

if thats not settling then

lr3 has been out for a long time, people have done all sorts with it, i havent seen a popbelly due to lr3

i just finished my DES, 1mg, now my stomach is huge, im pregnant and i can see my shit move around through large intestine cuz its poppin out so much

anyways, tell me anything you are on i will find a study that says its fucking deadly or terrible.

pick your poison literally, pick a poison that you feel safe with, no need to jab shit and get stressed out with cancer etc,,or anything,,,so yes if it bothers you throw away

i am chiming because feels like i might glorified DES too causing others to buy maybe? along with other favorable threads, however if its THAT drastic someon would have said something by now.

how stronger is LR3 compared to DES and mcg for mcg.

lots of questions.

but staying happy will result in healthy mind and body, hope yo uguys find some that you like better and sorry that some may throw them out. hope it wasnt too expensive.

 

[cm]

if you microdose, there is more that is taken up locally, as opposed to all of it going systemic. More systemic, more receptors in the intestines to grab onto it.
So, pain in the ass, but microdose
-c

 

[cm]

-c

 

[jstrong20]

Des is working great for me. I'm gaining real strength and not just pumps. I personally wouldn't compare it to insulin. I've used humalin-r and didn't like it that much. Way better results with des.

 

[Mike D]

so would this stuff be best to use pre or post workout?

 

[John Tao]

Des is working great for me. I'm gaining real strength and not just pumps. I personally wouldn't compare it to insulin. I've used humalin-r and didn't like it that much. Way better results with des.

This sounds quite good to me, 'cause I've experienced some troubles with slin and I abandoned it.
I've not used DES or LR3 right now, but I'm planning to do it soon. Only thing that scares me is hypoglycemia..

 

[jayice]

so do you guys feel that sub-q is useless then?

 

[Userat204]

Sub Q is not useless. I do it all the time. Like EDED said the shit is good. It's not exactly what all the original studies said it would be but I works for being vascular, pumped all the time and hopefully shuttles nutrients.

Oh and did I mention those were just side effects what im really trying to do is get the largest intestines on the planet so wish me luck fellas

 

[minister]

So I read this study which is disappointing to say the least since I have 5 bottles on the way. The reason Des is the strongest is because it doesn't bind to shit except your gut.

**broken link removed**

I heard a few bad things about this product, even one of the sponsors himself mentioned to me that the hype didn't match the product, he said the product was not effective and if I wanted he would send me some for free, so I got some coming , Anybody wants any DES?,LOL . God bless you. Minister.

 

[mexbeast]

I heard a few bad things about this product, even one of the sponsors himself mentioned to me that the hype didn't match the product, he said the product was not effective and if I wanted he would send me some for free, so I got some coming , Anybody wants any DES?,LOL . God bless you. Minister.

i have rats, i could use some

 

[wtfmansloth]

dam. just...dam. so basically DES wont cause significant increase in muscle weight but the majority of weight will be growth of intestines.


well that sucks. IDGAF about vascularity or pump at this point lol. i just wanna get huge.

from what i have learned, if you microdose, there is more that is taken up locally, as opposed to all of it going systemic. More systemic, more receptors in the intestines to grab onto it.
So, pain in the ass, but microdose
-c

how long would it take for the DES to be cleared from the injection site and go systemic? it still has a short half life doesnt it?

btw, i might take you up on that offer if i decide to chuck mine. i just bought 5 mgs of it lol.

edit: also, if one were microdosing, how much per injection are we talking and how frequently?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

man if anybody is tossing it please contact me. Im working with a friend that is trying to grow her intestines (she has gut atrophy). we are planning on IGF (right now using GHRP/CJC to see if that is sufficient).

 

[wtfmansloth]

fellas, chill out, all the stuff we take WILL kill us

if thats not settling then

lr3 has been out for a long time, people have done all sorts with it, i havent seen a popbelly due to lr3

i just finished my DES, 1mg, now my stomach is huge, im pregnant and i can see my shit move around through large intestine cuz its poppin out so much

anyways, tell me anything you are on i will find a study that says its fucking deadly or terrible.

pick your poison literally, pick a poison that you feel safe with, no need to jab shit and get stressed out with cancer etc,,or anything,,,so yes if it bothers you throw away

i am chiming because feels like i might glorified DES too causing others to buy maybe? along with other favorable threads, however if its THAT drastic someon would have said something by now.

how stronger is LR3 compared to DES and mcg for mcg.

lots of questions.

but staying happy will result in healthy mind and body, hope yo uguys find some that you like better and sorry that some may throw them out. hope it wasnt too expensive.

good post eded. im not that mad because i got a good price on mine but i dont want it to go to waste. ill feel better knowing someone is making use of it.


but im wondering just how effective microdosing would be? if igf is 10x more potent, one could get away with very small amounts in the first place.


also, would des play any role in promoting hyperplasia at all if the subject was using mgf?

 

[cm]

Research study from DAT's board. Info contained is his knowledge


Potency in vitro does not necessarily correlate with "effect" in vivo. An IGF-1 needs to be capable of binding to a binding protein to have a significant effect (IMO)

We'll use the following study to learn, Insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-binding proteins inhibit the biological activities of IGF-1 and IGF-2 but not des-(1-3)-IGF-1, Marina ROSS, Biochem. J. (1989) 258, 267-272

The title makes des seem very active, but,
Many cell types secrete insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-binding proteins that can be expected to sequester free IGF and modify the biological activities of the growth factors.
So what you have are cells throughout the body and they are surrounded by what is called a matrix which keeps them in place and to some extent limits access to the cell membrane (like mortar between bricks) where the IGF-1 receptor resides.

You also have IGF binding proteins of various types. Depending on the type and on the circumstance they can either increase or decrease eventual IGF-1 activity. When they bind to IGF-1 they preserve its life and render it inactive, for the most part. So bound IGF-1 is simply a complex w/ a longer life potentially and no biological activity.

Now IF this binding occurs near the site where IGF-1 needs to act, such as injured muscle we end up with a complex outside the cells waiting... like a spaceship orbiting (not really but you get the idea). If the cell bound that IGF-1 w/ a binding protein such as IGF binding protein-3 then the IGF-1 will often unbind and be pulled (attracted) to the IGF-1 receptor on the cell membrane. IGF-1 has a greater affinity (attraction) for the IGF-1 receptor then that particular binding protein.

So injured cells can secrete binding protein to trap and hold for use the free IGF-1 that travels by.

But it can also send a binding protein to keep the IGF away... like repellant. Maybe a different binding protein or other factors are involved such as the failure to breakdown the extra-cellular matrix for penetration.
A binding protein purified from bovine kidney (MDBK) cells potently inhibited the ability of IGF-2 to stimulate DNA synthesis or protein accumulation as well as to reduce rates of protein breakdown in chick embryo fibroblasts... Since the chick embryo fibroblasts contain only the type 1 IGF receptor, the MDBK-cell binding protein must have reduced the accessibility of IGF-2 and IGF- 1 to that receptor.
See it repels potentially harmful actions.

But sometimes it repels and decreases activity and other times it attracts and increases activity. See:
Inhibiting effects on both protein breakdown responsiveness to IGF and IGF binding to cell receptors were also observed with human amniotic fluid binding protein... These results contrast with stimulatory responses on different IGF-1 actions of the same binding protein reported previously [Elgin, Busby & Clemmons (1987) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A. 84, 3254-3258].
The cell decides... and I have always thought muscle injury and injury in general was an attracting event not a repelling event. I often mused about injecting IGF-1 bound to the IGF Binding Protein-3 which will bind to albumin in plasma into the injured/worked muscle. The size of this complex is too big to leave the area. It is too big to pass through the vessel walls and travel around systemically. It would sit at site and wait to be called to the injured/repairing cell... probably by factors that make travel through the matrix mortar that surrounds cells more easily traversed.

IGF-1 LR3 (altered IGF-1) and Des could not be used as they do not bind to the binding protein and would freely be taken up into the vessels blood streams.

Now des-(1-3)-IGF-1 has an increased potency BECAUSE it pretty much does not bind to binding proteins. It can not be pulled in when the cell wants nor easily repelled.
This increased potency was not associated with a comparable increase in affinity for the type 1 IGF receptor (Ballard et al., 1987, 1988). Instead, des-(1-3)-IGF-1 bound relatively poorly to proteins in media conditioned by the L6 myoblasts used for the bioassays (Bagley et al., 1989) and to a pure binding protein produced by MDBK cells (Szabo et al., 1988). We proposed that the higher potency of des-(1-3)-IGF- 1 was a result of increased concentrations of the free peptide being available for interaction with cell receptors (Szabo et al., 1988).
See that is how they are measuring potency. So in case you missed it, stated again,
The biological potencies of IGF-1, IGF-2 and des-(1-3)-IGF-I correlate inversely with their binding to proteins released into the medium by cells, so that the enhanced potency of des-(1-3)-IGF-1 is a consequence of it not binding to purified binding proteins or those released by cultured cells.
Des has a decreased affinity for the IGF receptor compared to the native ligand IGF-1. IGF-1 LR3 as well. So to be active they must be present in a high enough concentration and hope to bind to receptors where needed. However they are not discriminate.

Now studies in farm animals do show growth from IGF-1, IGF-1 LR3, Des and Insulin. Leaner tissue from the IGFs and more fat gain from insulin. So I am not saying IGFs have no growth value at high doses. I am simply mentioning how Des derives its potency and saying its activity is not targeted to an area.