igf question 2

[guns123]

another thing,I have heard that Igf-1 is ggod for pct.

but...

i have also heard that igf-1 need to be taken in a anabolic environment (the opposite of pct) with lots of androgen

i am currenly coming to the end of a cycle and considering igf for pct.
thoughts on this?


-1st response i got-

It works like this:

"IGF-1 induces differentiation of muscle stem cells to produce hyperplasia, the creation of completely new muscle fibers. These are immature fibers that will need some time to grow and mature. A cycle of AAS can speed this process up and lead to quicker hypertrophy of the new muscle fibers.
However, the creation of new muscle fibers takes some time in itself and immediate use of IGF with a short cycle of AAS may not be too synergistic as you have not had enough time to have a sufficient amount of hyperplasia to take advantage of the anabolic state. If you do short cycles like 4-6 weeks, you will probably not have much synergy. In this scenario, IGF would most likely benefit from the next AAS cycle you do down the road after you finish the IGF cycle so you might as well save the IGF for PCT here since it will definitely help keep gains (remember IGF levels are quite low after a cycle).
A longer cycle like 12+ weeks is better. In such a cycle many use IGF right at the beginning and again in PCT since there is sufficient break in between the IGF runs. This is the perfect combination IMO.
If you do short 4 week PH runs, I would not waste doing it along side IGF. I would do the IGF in PCT, gain some new immature fibers, keep the gains from the cycle, and then hit the Anabolics (next cycle down the road)to target the most of the new fibers.
Hope I did not drag this out to much. Tired"

- my response-

thats the way i understood it, that becasue of the way IGF works, it works regardless and is not affected by other factors. but ist just that along with my above post, grunt also states in this thread that it would be a waste if running in a big calorie deficit (non anabolic state).

by the way, this is my first cycle and i will not run any more steroid cycles after this, so the purpose of IGF would be to keep gains in pct and possibly build more muscle during after this with the new fibres. (is this possible when training naturally and not hitting the juice?).

thanks for response

any reply on the shake during workout post above?

cheers

 

[gridlock]

My understanding of it is that really yes you would need a highly anabolic environment to get the true benefit from it. If you aren't going to run an AAS cycle again after this, I say get as much from it as you can.

Otherwise you'll just sink into the depths of people that have tried to get the best from peptides but have skimped or tried to implement their own theories on the environment in which to take them. This, more often than not, results in them getting nothing from it and thinking that they dont work.

Does anybody else agree with me on this?

 

[guns123]

My understanding of it is that really yes you would need a highly anabolic environment to get the true benefit from it. If you aren't going to run an AAS cycle again after this, I say get as much from it as you can.

Otherwise you'll just sink into the depths of people that have tried to get the best from peptides but have skimped or tried to implement their own theories on the environment in which to take them. This, more often than not, results in them getting nothing from it and thinking that they dont work.

Does anybody else agree with me on this?

ok, so i wont get as much out of it as i would if running wioth steroids, but i will still be possible to gain size by trainin naturally to increase the size of the new muscle cells created, correct? so this would work when running during pct?

 

[gridlock]

correct you will still gain size but obviously not as much. when you say naturally do you mean without AAS and IGF?

 

[Bobaslaw]

correct you will still gain size but obviously not as much. when you say naturally do you mean without AAS and IGF?

Exactly.

IGF-1's method of action is unrelated to whether you are on AAS or not. IGF will do what it does (differentiation of stem cells) regardless of a concurrent AAS cycle. Once you have new fiber creation they will grow and mature rather slowly and will need a good anabolic environment to accelerate this process. Geting the new fibers to a decent state of Hypertrophy, as with the rest of your mature muscle fibers will be a much more gradual process going "naturally".
A note: Once you have new muscle fibers added they are there to stay. They are not going away anywhere, so my stress is that nothing is "lost" if you don't do AAS concurrently. You will still mature and instill Hypertrophy in these fibers even if you do AAS somewhere down the road. The fibers will still be there... waiting

 

[gridlock]

I was thinking that maybe instead of him doing AAS first or with the IGF, if he only wants to do 1 run of it, I'd do the IGF first in that case, then do the AAS to help them mature that little bit more, and get them some size, as once he's done the IGF course, the new fibers would be there.

What you think bobaslaw?

 

[Bobaslaw]

I was thinking that maybe instead of him doing AAS first or with the IGF, if he only wants to do 1 run of it, I'd do the IGF first in that case, then do the AAS to help them mature that little bit more, and get them some size, as once he's done the IGF course, the new fibers would be there.

What you think bobaslaw?

I see your point and think it really is dependent on the user, type of cycle, and their preference.
As I said before, you could run IGF 2x in a long cycle, once at the beginning/middle and again in PCT.
Remember, IGF can be beneficial other than its ability to promore hypertrophy. It is also "insulin like" and does shuttle glucose/nutrients synergistically with endogenous insulin. These are benefits that can be reaped at any point on cycle or not.
If a short cycle, like 4 weeks of PH, I would definitely keep it in PCT, IMO. I have had great results in gains during PCTs with IGF-1. The ability to keep more of you gains and possibly push forward in PCT is golden. I look at it like this: The "PCT" run of IGF is actually the "pre cycle run" for the next cycle down the road. If you repeat the protocol you get the best benefits of better PCT and all the rest of the advantages that come with IGF.
Honestly, you can run it any way you like. The key is that it is not just one cycle of IGF, as you need a few runs to potentailly give you any benefit. This is all assuming that you are in it for the long haul and actually plan on doing more than one cycle of Gear and/or IGF....

 

[guns123]

correct you will still gain size but obviously not as much. when you say naturally do you mean without AAS and IGF?

cool. i mean training during/after a IGF cycle but doing so without any ASS.

 

[guns123]

I was thinking that maybe instead of him doing AAS first or with the IGF, if he only wants to do 1 run of it, I'd do the IGF first in that case, then do the AAS to help them mature that little bit more, and get them some size, as once he's done the IGF course, the new fibers would be there.

What you think bobaslaw?

actually mate i am already halfway through my ASS cycle. i am thinking about IGF for ptc, hence the question on taking during an anabolic environment (which pct is not).

from what i have read tho i think you are correct, a lot of people reccomend taking pre cycle to gain new fibres than can be built up during cycle, the post cycle to help keep gains.


ps just noticed you are from england, check your pm's

 

[guns123]

Exactly.

IGF-1's method of action is unrelated to whether you are on AAS or not. IGF will do what it does (differentiation of stem cells) regardless of a concurrent AAS cycle. Once you have new fiber creation they will grow and mature rather slowly and will need a good anabolic environment to accelerate this process. Geting the new fibers to a decent state of Hypertrophy, as with the rest of your mature muscle fibers will be a much more gradual process going "naturally".
A note: Once you have new muscle fibers added they are there to stay. They are not going away anywhere, so my stress is that nothing is "lost" if you don't do AAS concurrently. You will still mature and instill Hypertrophy in these fibers even if you do AAS somewhere down the road. The fibers will still be there... waiting

exactly what i wanted confirmed,thanks mate

 

[guns123]

I see your point and think it really is dependent on the user, type of cycle, and their preference.
As I said before, you could run IGF 2x in a long cycle, once at the beginning/middle and again in PCT.
Remember, IGF can be beneficial other than its ability to promore hypertrophy. It is also "insulin like" and does shuttle glucose/nutrients synergistically with endogenous insulin. These are benefits that can be reaped at any point on cycle or not.
If a short cycle, like 4 weeks of PH, I would definitely keep it in PCT, IMO. I have had great results in gains during PCTs with IGF-1. The ability to keep more of you gains and possibly push forward in PCT is golden. I look at it like this: The "PCT" run of IGF is actually the "pre cycle run" for the next cycle down the road. If you repeat the protocol you get the best benefits of better PCT and all the rest of the advantages that come with IGF.
Honestly, you can run it any way you like. The key is that it is not just one cycle of IGF, as you need a few runs to potentailly give you any benefit. This is all assuming that you are in it for the long haul and actually plan on doing more than one cycle of Gear and/or IGF....

understood, but as with the ass, i think i will run IGF only once and that will be for 4 weeks during pct.


thanks all for input

just on a side not, what were your gains during pct you mentioned?much fat loss?

 

[Bobaslaw]

understood, but as with the ass, i think i will run IGF only once and that will be for 4 weeks during pct.


thanks all for input

just on a side not, what were your gains during pct you mentioned?much fat loss?

Even though my test went down to like 290 right after my cycle (Did a blood test cus was feeling shutdown), using IGF in PCT allowed me to gain a bit more LBM, and go up in strength (weight/reps). It was really the moment that made me appreciate this peptide.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

igf-1, gh and mgf use when off aas will really help to prime your body for future aas use.


i experienced this first hand... it really is bizarre, you blow up fast off of anything when you go back on. you do not need to be running the petides at that time... the magic has already happened.

 

[Bobaslaw]

igf-1, gh and mgf use when off aas will really help to prime your body for future aas use.


i experienced this first hand... it really is bizarre, you blow up fast off of anything when you go back on. you do not need to be running the petides at that time... the magic has already happened.

Exactly! Right on the nose with this observaion.