I've been reading that people's experiences with igf-1 des 1,3 + igf-2 lr3 are blowing everything else out of the water. But, I don't have experience with these. Short term it seems to me (experience) that igf-1 lr3 works like low dose insulin and peg mgf seems to work decently for site enhancement. Next go around I'm gonna try the des and igf-2 mix.