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IGF1 vs Insulin and Metformin http://sciroxxonline.com/

Just looking at a few posts here. It is important to note that skeletal muscle is always greedy for IGF.

Both Proliferation and DIfferentiation occurs concurrently in different muscle cells. Still the Proliferation/Differentiation split can be an effective approach. After a Workout the muscles produce MGF for about 6 hours or so, then they switch to IFG production. For such reasons, people often wait to inject their IGF in order to follow the ordered sequence.

Yet the body always has chronic/systematic levels of IGF because that is the sort of nature of IGF, even with the Binding proteins.

IGF and Androgens are very similar seeing as that they both are chronic in levels, and they both bind to other proteins that prolong, complicate, and specify their delivery and function. A long-term sort of thing.

GH should definitely be pulsed. Just short-transient increases. Normally GH is not elevated chronically, and it should not be if one wants to avoid all the disruptions.

So really you can have elevated IGF and Androgens any time, and the body actually has some complicated systems regarding it's specific delivery through their binding proteins. BUT IFG-1LR3 is preferred for IGF since you should not have the chronically elevated GH levels by hGH administration.

Pulses are best for GH. GH is a master hormone that is a part of your body's biological clock. Screw that up with hGH, then screw up your clock-work...and insulin insensitivity, etc. I remember B-boy saying that he made the best gains with the GHRP/GRP and IGF-1 Lr3 combo...sounds about right.

Now Insulin. People often use it in order to stimulate IGF with hGH, but you don't have to since you have IGF-1 Lr3. BUT you could use Insulin in order to increase MGF. MGF is created within the cell and used within the cell; normally, MGF stays with in the cell, which is different than IGF. So taking exogenous MGF isn't as effective, and you want to produce your own within the cell, using GH and Insulin around the mechanical workout.

Just taking GH or GHRP may be enough to increase your MGF at workout time, but let's think about Insulin for a minute. I know what people say. But for the studies that I've seen, I have to say:

Insulin is primarily an anti-catabolic hormone, and secondarily an anabolic hormone.

conversely,

IGF is primarily an anabolic hormone, and secondarily an anti-catabolic hormone.​

I know that people take insulin all day, and it is effective since it is a strong hormone, but really you can take IGF for that. The only time that the body could actually use some extra insulin is workout time, when things get shitty and the anti-catabolic nature comes into play...it continues to refill the muscle as it is falling behind.

So for the workout, there is Insulin and GH. They will increase your intracellular MGF, and they will have that anti-catabolic effect.

Elsewise, IGF is the anabolic agent.

And Androgens are the permissive factor for IGF. In fact, using Selective Anabolic Androgens are a way to control IGF in a selective way. Wherever the androgen stimulates, it will allow the IGF to do it's best work.

If we want to make IGF anymore selective, we will have to figure out specific protein vectors and those Binding Proteins. Until then, you can use the permissive factor of selective androgens to control the selectivity of IGF.

Interesting post. My current protocol of ghrp2 preworkout and postworkout with igf1-des postworkout is supported by this post. I sold off all my HGH and switched to ghrp2. I'm up to 201.2lbs as of this morning. That's 14lbs in 11 days. I haven't even added the humalog preworkout yet because ghrp2 was making me a bit hypo as it is. While my understanding wasn't as complete as yours, I switched to this protocol for several reasons some of which you point out. My plan is to switch to Lr3 as soon as I run out of this des I'm using.

Btw I am using 2g of metformin a day. 1g AM and 1g evening after the postworkout meal. I don't train more then 2 days in a row usually.
 
When doing gh burst, would you do higher amounts to hit higher peaks?

If using 3iu daily, would you change it to 5-6iu on training days? Or more for bulking?
 
Interesting post. My current protocol of ghrp2 preworkout and postworkout with igf1-des postworkout is supported by this post. I sold off all my HGH and switched to ghrp2. I'm up to 201.2lbs as of this morning. That's 14lbs in 11 days. I haven't even added the humalog preworkout yet because ghrp2 was making me a bit hypo as it is. While my understanding wasn't as complete as yours, I switched to this protocol for several reasons some of which you point out. My plan is to switch to Lr3 as soon as I run out of this des I'm using.

Btw I am using 2g of metformin a day. 1g AM and 1g evening after the postworkout meal. I don't train more then 2 days in a row usually.


14 lbs? Wow thats great. Doesnt look like much bf increases either. Great job.
 
14 lbs? Wow thats great. Doesnt look like much bf increases either. Great job.
Thanks. At 196.4lbs I didn't even feel bloated. At 201.2lbs, I am bloated so it's not all solid but a very good increase. Need to recomp at this point before pushing the weight up. Pants feel a little tighter then usual today :)
 
I would like to emphasize that IGF1 has some distinct anti catabolic properties which surpass the anti catabolic effect of insulin as shown in numerous studies.
you may refer back to the clinical study I showed on the beginning - The IGF1 negates the effect of dexamethasone (highly potent corticosteroid (catabolic) hormone). this may be of great importance for any athlete especially under strenuous conditions and caloric restriction

Here again the whole results and conclusions
- Effects of insulin-like growth factor-I and growth hormone in models of parenteral nutrition. - PubMed - NCBI
-----------results and conclusions
RESULTS:
Administration of IGF-I, but not GH, attenuates dexamethasone-induced protein catabolism and increases insulin sensitivity. Simultaneous treatment with GH and IGF-I additively increases the serum concentration of IGF-I, whole-body anabolism, and lipid oxidation. GH or IGF-I when given alone produces similar increases in the serum concentration of IGF-I. However, GH selectively increases skeletal muscle mass whereas IGF-I selectively attenuates the intestinal atrophy and abnormal intestinal ion transport induced by TPN. These tissue-selective anabolic effects of GH and IGF-I are associated with differential increases in protein synthesis in skeletal muscle and jejunum, respectively.
CONCLUSIONS:
Simultaneous treatment with GH and IGF-I may offer the greatest clinical efficacy because of improved nitrogen retention in association with enhanced lipid oxidation and stimulation of protein synthesis in multiple tissue types.
 
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