In the words of Mr Meadows

[ajdos]

I found this on another website, its written by John Meadows.
JM I hope you dont mind me re-posting it here but this is something that has been nagging me for years.

JM I hope you dont mind me sharing this write up.
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Beware the Master Debater
by John Meadows 

Be on the lookout. There's a new expert in our industry I call the "debater guru". This new species is a cousin to the pseudo-scientist. These are people that take perfectly good data and misrepresent it... misinterpret it and treat it as gospel, even in the face of common sense.

Today there's a new breed though. The debater guru will often use really cool terms like "straw man" or "ad hominem" to impress you with his high school debating skills. Other signs: he places no value on anecdotal evidence. Like their cousins the pseudo-scientists these master debaters also lack common sense, and they generally don't have clients to perfect their coaching skills. The scary thing is, most don't even train.

Sometimes I feel like we're losing the ability to solve problems, create, and be creative in the fitness industry. Remember, before something was "proven", it was once just an idea.

Be careful who you take advice from. Seek out folks who combine real world experience, good science, and train like they have a set.

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This is something I have run into time and time again on a lot of forums, most forums DO NOT have the level of experience that Pro M does. So these guys really like to show up on kiddie forums and impress the n00bs.
I have had terrible arguments with them, and as JM pointed out any common sense that you have learned in many years of bodybuilding will mean nothing, they will talk as if you are some idiot because you arent talking about enzymes, cofactors, or receptors. Myself I have been training 24 years, and competed 7 of them. Having some fuckstick like that talk shit, knowing hes reading straight out of a medical desk reference or he works as a tech in some lab somewhere, when he wont even post a pic of his leg, chest or stomach saying 'I wont do it for security reasons' blah blah. Or the same type who then posts a pic and they have hardly got any muscle and are relatively smooth. If they couldnt do it themselves....

Now I will say on occasion I have met some people who didnt look it but had the knowledge, and some who looked it and had no knowledge whatsoever. But they were exceptions to the rule, and more often than not they didnt hide behind the computer screen.

The thing I notice about most of them is that they will hang on these noob boards, or kiddie boards as I call them and puff up, nut they dont DARE come to a board like this, knowing they will get called out and humiliated.
The last one I dealt with was a guy named 'NutNut' he likened himself to a nutritional guru.
Turned out he really didnt know shit, his MO was to steal female clients from other trainers to have sex with them.
His last fiasco was to try and fake his suicide on the internet...yeah that didnt work out so well, he got caught.
Thats usually the mentality behind these types, its all about being someone on the interweb.

 

[flexdurden]

I read this as well when John posted it...

And this is the nature of the technological world we live in. Anyone can pretend to be anyone pretty much online and all they have to do is have great googling skills.

Someone will pose a question, they google away to pull up some technical information and post it and it all sounds so true because it is "sciencey" and most noobs see something with a lot of technical jargon and feel, "Shit, this guy/gal knows what they are talking about and it must be true if they all this about xyz..."

Experience speaks volumes and if one can't show that what they know can be applied in a real life scenario, what good is it?

As John has said, there needs to be a balance of science and application... and just because science doesn't justify a methodology doesn't mean it isn't valid, science just might not have found out why that methodology works, but in time, it will be proven.

Great post....

 

[Ccook33]

I know the type of people John Meadows is referring to and it is frustrating for someone like him who has been in the gym for 25+ years. Most of the time scientific evidence is the number one factor with proving anything. But as JM stated, before the ideas of the past became fact they were just that, ideas. These type of people fall into the same category as the IIFYM crazies. Again scientifically, it WILL work, and it has for very many people. But for me, in REAL LIFE, eating poptarts isn't producing the same effect as eating another carb source in my physique.

 

[Dig93]

I just started working with john myself I'm very pleased so far!

 

[ModestMuscle1]

I too read this article. He really hits the nail on the head with this one. In 10+ years I have seen so many 'experts' exactly like how he describes. At the end of the day the most knowledgeable people I have met over the years never lose the mindset of the 'eternal student.' You have to have a backbone while keeping the ego in check.

 

[GS]

I found this on another website, its written by John Meadows.
JM I hope you dont mind me re-posting it here but this is something that has been nagging me for years.

JM I hope you dont mind me sharing this write up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Beware the Master Debater
by John Meadows 

Be on the lookout. There's a new expert in our industry I call the "debater guru". This new species is a cousin to the pseudo-scientist. These are people that take perfectly good data and misrepresent it... misinterpret it and treat it as gospel, even in the face of common sense.

Today there's a new breed though. The debater guru will often use really cool terms like "straw man" or "ad hominem" to impress you with his high school debating skills. Other signs: he places no value on anecdotal evidence. Like their cousins the pseudo-scientists these master debaters also lack common sense, and they generally don't have clients to perfect their coaching skills. The scary thing is, most don't even train.

Sometimes I feel like we're losing the ability to solve problems, create, and be creative in the fitness industry. Remember, before something was "proven", it was once just an idea.

Be careful who you take advice from. Seek out folks who combine real world experience, good science, and train like they have a set.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is something I have run into time and time again on a lot of forums, most forums DO NOT have the level of experience that Pro M does. So these guys really like to show up on kiddie forums and impress the n00bs.
I have had terrible arguments with them, and as JM pointed out any common sense that you have learned in many years of bodybuilding will mean nothing, they will talk as if you are some idiot because you arent talking about enzymes, cofactors, or receptors. Myself I have been training 24 years, and competed 7 of them. Having some fuckstick like that talk shit, knowing hes reading straight out of a medical desk reference or he works as a tech in some lab somewhere, when he wont even post a pic of his leg, chest or stomach saying 'I wont do it for security reasons' blah blah. Or the same type who then posts a pic and they have hardly got any muscle and are relatively smooth. If they couldnt do it themselves....

Now I will say on occasion I have met some people who didnt look it but had the knowledge, and some who looked it and had no knowledge whatsoever. But they were exceptions to the rule, and more often than not they didnt hide behind the computer screen.

The thing I notice about most of them is that they will hang on these noob boards, or kiddie boards as I call them and puff up, nut they dont DARE come to a board like this, knowing they will get called out and humiliated.
The last one I dealt with was a guy named 'NutNut' he likened himself to a nutritional guru.
Turned out he really didnt know shit, his MO was to steal female clients from other trainers to have sex with them.
His last fiasco was to try and fake his suicide on the internet...yeah that didnt work out so well, he got caught.
Thats usually the mentality behind these types, its all about being someone on the interweb.

Agreed,AJ how many boards that you have mod to find out the board members where pretender's but where smart enough to have creditable mods (at least a few )
I would imagine a load,there are some crazy people out in the internet world and if you are not careful they can fool the best................:banghead:

 

[ajdos]

Agreed,AJ how many boards that you have mod to find out the board members where pretender's but where smart enough to have creditable mods (at least a few )
I would imagine a load,there are some crazy people out in the internet world and if you are not careful they can fool the best................:banghead:

GS, its gotten much worse, some boards you see mods that got bumped because they posted a thousand posts of porn. I mean I like nekid women as much as the next man - but that shouldnt be a mod.
There was one board that didnt have one person on the staff who wasnt seriously obese. Well, I take that back-there were two women, but they hardly even showed up because Im sure they viewed the whole mod-status as a token status and had better places to be.
And you better believe every one of them was useless, and contributed nothing to any debates or conversations.
Ten years ago, guys who modded, knew wtf training, diet was.
PM is one of the last few boards that I come to, that has knowledgeable staff and members, its a small minority of forums that have that core group and therefore great members.

 

[Dig93]

forgot to mention earlier before that the nutrition and supplement company is billion dollar industry. people will pay money for supps a long with advice. i swear charge someone $300 a month to tell someone to eat bull sperm after a workout youll burn fat and get bigger tack on some scientific words and BOOM people will do it. i give JM a lot of credit for being successful as long as he has and calling out the bs

 

[mountaindog1]

Thanks for reading that guys! One of the reasons why I love this board is that turds are censored out of here, or they eventually get found out EVERY TIME. having been here for a while now, I and many other vets could tell you all kinds of stories about people coming on here pretending but getting found out. Other boards just let it go and slowly but surely their boards go into the crapper. Anyways, thanks again for the support, and I know I am not on here as much, but this is my HOME. I love promuscle.

JM