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Instinctive training

qbkilla

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The arms thread and some great posts by Elvia got me thinking about this.

Imo most people need some sort of structure, is the non advanced which imo is 90 of ttainees even on AAS. But I think all could potentially benefit

From the guys who do it can you elaborate? Do you still have a set split? Do you still have a few exercises first for progression then go more with feel after? How would you advise someone skeptical to start to incorporate this?

I'm thinking of giving it a try. I would still have my base routine, for me the bro split. But choose 1 muscle group or two, say arms or side/rear delts (not both).

Hit them on 1 or 2 days a week other than their actual training day. Rather than say 3 super sets of skulls and preacher curls...just set a timer for 10 minutes and blast them no rest. Get a pump but not destroy them low sets to failure as amrs day will be coming and that is when I do traditional progressive over load

Am I off base? Would the guys who use this training philosophy recommend something different? Also has anyone ever tried this type of training and regressed?
 
I have always had a routine but have always been fluid with it in the sense I could alternate certain lifts and schedules pending work, mood and equipment at the gym. Also I would do mesocycles and microcycles constantly switching up things up yet retaining a certain structure. I have an exercise physiology degree and have read you previous threads thinking you put way too much thought into your routine. You definitely have the know how to keep a routine but vary it pending different factors that effect you.

My philosophy has always been to make working out fun and variety is fun where too much structure leads to boredom. I once said this in an interview for an internship at a college with their current strength coach at the time and he looked at me like I was an idiot but here I am still enjoying training over the past 26 years.

Not sure if this answers anything for you but those are my current thoughts. I would give it a try though and see where it leads you as you definitely have the knowledge base to blaze your own trail with bits a pieces of different philosophies and training routines.
 
Hard no for me. I need a plan. Periodization will set you free.

And your mind is a liar. I’ve felt great, and shit the bed on my lifts. I’ve also been hungover, having sharts, and splitting headaches and set rep PRs.

I’d rather plan out a 6 week block, run it. When i do shit a workout, retroactively look back and decipher what needs to be changed.

Now unless something is hurting. If I have JM presses for 3 sets and my elbows hurt, I’ll do rope extensions. But once again….why is my elbows hurting? Is Jm press needing ti be retired? Am I dehydrated? Did I tweak it grappling?


But i don’t like unknowns. Less variables, better tracking and manipulation of said variables.

But I am a spaz. If I go do an arm day with no plan, it will end up being an arm, rear delt, calves, go push the prowler, abs, or and why not hang cleans just for fun.
 
i am a huge believer in having a structured plan with a built in progression. instinctual seems to turn into doing more of what i like and less of what i need.
 
The arms thread and some great posts by Elvia got me thinking about this.

Imo most people need some sort of structure, is the non advanced which imo is 90 of ttainees even on AAS. But I think all could potentially benefit

From the guys who do it can you elaborate? Do you still have a set split? Do you still have a few exercises first for progression then go more with feel after? How would you advise someone skeptical to start to incorporate this?

I'm thinking of giving it a try. I would still have my base routine, for me the bro split. But choose 1 muscle group or two, say arms or side/rear delts (not both).

Hit them on 1 or 2 days a week other than their actual training day. Rather than say 3 super sets of skulls and preacher curls...just set a timer for 10 minutes and blast them no rest. Get a pump but not destroy them low sets to failure as amrs day will be coming and that is when I do traditional progressive over load

Am I off base? Would the guys who use this training philosophy recommend something different? Also has anyone ever tried this type of training and regressed?
Are you asking does instinctive training work? If so yes, if you are driven and love to lift it’s the way to go. Still keep in a few basics as a back stop like say squats on leg day but after that yea you just chase a pump doin drops and burn sets with regular sets not waiting on a machine dash doin back on rows in my mind lat pull next, lat pull full fuck it least blast t bar rows. For me it’s fun as hell and I always do more than some typed up lift. That said I do come from a USMC background which is structured but extremely self driven and one that seeks pain in training. I don’t like to think too much I like to lift and yes if I have a weakness I address it
 
i am a huge believer in having a structured plan with a built in progression. instinctual seems to turn into doing more of what i like and less of what i need.
Same here, why I have never tried it. But if I do it would be as a way to add volume to a routine that is already structured. Not just a free for all
 
Something to note is that any of the pros that say they have no structure, no logbook, and never track anything are genetic aliens. In addition to that, they also have an idea what their strength levels are and I’m sure train accordingly. It may not be written down, but if a guy can incline four plates, he doesn’t walk in one day and just deicide to do two like he forgets. It also doesn’t mean that their training partner isn’t the one logging things in some form or another. I’m sure Kerry, Rick Belcastro, or whoever his training partner was at the time were somewhat keeping track of Jay’s weights as they were the ones loading the bars/machines and then pushing him. Ronnie may have been chewing bubble gum and bobbing his head to DMX, but Brian Dobson was making sure he had everything he needed to consistently progress in his workouts.
 
Going by feel in life is a detriment for most people from what i have seen. And when training i find what i don't want to do is often what is best. I am more instinctive these days as i t applies to volume, load and frequency. I think some one needs years of experience with a wide range of training styles to really be able to know what he can use to make improvements. I see a lot of younger guys with not much experience doing what they feel will work and the seem to get little results in my experience.
 
The quickest way to make absolutely no progress.

That dude you see at the gym who has been benching 225 everrryy single week for 3 years, yeah...he trains instinctually too.
You can't expect to get to where youre going without a map. It's as simple as that. The only ones who can do this successfully are mutants.

Also unsure what you're even asking QB. There is not much to be explain. You can still have a training split, you just go in an hit chest however the hell u want it. Could be all flies. Next chest workout is completely different. Whateverrr the hell u want. Want ANOTHER chest day during the week? Do that too. Hence...instinctual.
 
Fortitude training has this for the pump days while still having structure for progression.
 
Fortitude training has this for the pump days while still having structure for progression.
This is more what I'm referring to vs just do what you want. Say an upper lower split. Upper 2x per week lower two times per week. First session for each is straight out 2 sets to failure per part, chosen exercises, progressive overload.

But for the second upper lower session, a pump session, be more loose with it. If your just cussing a pump these workouts they don't need as much structure, rest intervals, waiting for that specific pice of equipment.

Not saying it's better than what we all do just was thinking about getting in extra work for lagging parts but having less structure. People bring up good points, many of the things said are why Ive never did this type of training.
 
Sorry for the long post :eek::D I am a very instinctive trainer but it varies. I always follow a training plan as in what body parts I am training and when you do that for long periods you end up doing very similar workouts even if you decide to do what you want vs following an exact sequence of movements. It's the same with my diet and I eat what I want but that is pretty much the same stuff day after day. As you already know you should have a plan to attain your goals so you can be an instinctive trainer in addition to following a set training split. You have guys who logbook training and some will just do working sets for a few main movements and some may even count every single set they ever do. I don't do any of that but I have my logs online and of course I know how much weigh I have lifted last week from memory so I always try to progress I just do it more over a gradual time period and not workout to workout.

When I walk to the gym I know what I am training because I follow a training plan and I usually stick to each plan for long periods. However, I usually decide what movements I am going to do as I walk to the gym. They differ workout to workout but over a period of time (week to week) I pretty much do the same movements 90% of the time. I prefer having some freedom in there though. Sometimes I am training and I may do 1 working set and other times I do a drop set or similar... non of that is usually planned and it's on the spot. I done leg extensions for 7 controlled reps going up a plate a time with no rest the other day and that was made up as I started lifting the weight and was on about the 4th warm up rep. Last time I went to the gym I only had 1 hour so on the way to the gym I planned out my exact routine. When it was time to do chest press the machine was taken and I could have waited but I used a different one so nothing is ever written in stone with me.

As stated I tend to do the same things so there is a rough template in mind when it comes to training movements. I usually do laterals and front raises then a press and for chest I like to do a fly, press then repeat or something like a dip. Right now for pull I am rotating stiff leg deadlifts with the glute drive machine workout to workout. I usually go top to bottom when training back as well. Legs I do calves, hams, glutes and quads 90% of the time. I have my main movements but I often add in something different workout to workout.

Anyone can do this but instinctive training is best done when you have a decent knowledge of body mechanics and movement patterns. So you can rotate very similar movements in if you can't or don't want to do your planned exercise. Another way I change training is also rep ranges and sometimes after many weeks of 6-15 reps I may add in a high rep only day because my body/mind is telling me to. I never plan deload things though. I should also state I do PULL and PUSH now but there is no set pattern as in on, on, off etc. I train when I feel good and I have a break when I feel bad but it usually works out with 4-5 days per week most of the year.

So for me I have a clear training plan. I aim to progressively get stronger but over a period of time and not forcing it workout to workout. I usually have a set routine in my mind but I will often change that on the day. It could be changed to prevent waiting for equipment but it's usually just because I like to change things up slightly from time to time.

I will say I think logbook training is extremely effective and I would recommend it to everyone who wants to grow as much as they can. However, there is only so much stronger you can get even if you force things. It's not like you won't get just as strong in the long term training the way I do. I see many force things meaning their form changes to hit a new number. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as their form is still good but it's not like they are chest pressing 12 plates a side because they tried to go up over years and use mini plates to add weight. The smallest plate I usually add to anything is 10kg so non of this 0.5kg stuff so I move up in weight this week.

There are limits to everyone and after so many years you will pretty much hit them regardless how you do things. I have always tried ot get as strong as possible and I have pushed myself to the max just not in a logbook fashion. I have done 10 pps hack squats with good form and 5pps smith presses etc so I have still gone as heavy as I can I just don't logbook anything and I don't count reps workout to workout. I fail when I fail and I couldn't case less if that's 3 reps short of last week. Obviously logbookers would state but that is an effective way to know you may need to change the movement or a deload or x, y and z. I don't really put that much thought into things day to day. Fact is I am much weaker now then I was 10 years ago and I look a lot better so whilst strength is extremely important sometimes people forget this is bodybuilding and not powerlifting.
 
This is the first thread in a while i have agreed with so many answers haha

You wanna improve you gotta have a plan and stick to it
 
Something to note is that any of the pros that say they have no structure, no logbook, and never track anything are genetic aliens. In addition to that, they also have an idea what their strength levels are and I’m sure train accordingly. It may not be written down, but if a guy can incline four plates, he doesn’t walk in one day and just deicide to do two like he forgets. It also doesn’t mean that their training partner isn’t the one logging things in some form or another. I’m sure Kerry, Rick Belcastro, or whoever his training partner was at the time were somewhat keeping track of Jay’s weights as they were the ones loading the bars/machines and then pushing him. Ronnie may have been chewing bubble gum and bobbing his head to DMX, but Brian Dobson was making sure he had everything he needed to consistently progress in his workouts.
I trained in Metroflex and at Golds Arlington (where Ronnie actually did most of his training, MF was great for videos) now this was 2000-2003 and Gus and I would lift with often handing each other the heavy bells and such and I never once saw either write anything down. I got into instinctive more bc of guys like Titus, Ronnie, and Gus and I’m a decent bodybuilder but I doubt I’m in the genetic 1% physically. Logging is great if it works for you but by no means does one have to be a tier one guy to not log. Now the idea of walking around writing shit down instead of lifting and just grinding and vibing to my sets seems like work and for me the gym is my church, therapist, and favorite thing to do. I’m not saying logging isn’t great for those that do it but it’s not for me. As stated above we know what we lifted last week and last month so you know what your range is and for muscle confusion if I start with DB presses one week but do them after inclines, declines, and say pec Dec the next week my weight is gonna go down so logging would seem to be most effective for guys who do the same movements in the same order week after week and I intentionally avoid this practice.
 
This is more what I'm referring to vs just do what you want. Say an upper lower split. Upper 2x per week lower two times per week. First session for each is straight out 2 sets to failure per part, chosen exercises, progressive overload.

But for the second upper lower session, a pump session, be more loose with it. If your just cussing a pump these workouts they don't need as much structure, rest intervals, waiting for that specific pice of equipment.

Not saying it's better than what we all do just was thinking about getting in extra work for lagging parts but having less structure. People bring up good points, many of the things said are why Ive never did this type of training.
Yeah with 3 days of progression an one day of just pump for metabolic stress and "feeder" sets just chasing the pump with what ever you felt like was fun. And definitely could hit the lagging muscles more. I made some great progress on Fortitude I just can't do that program now with a busy gym.
 
Yeah with 3 days of progression an one day of just pump for metabolic stress and "feeder" sets just chasing the pump with what ever you felt like was fun. And definitely could hit the lagging muscles more. I made some great progress on Fortitude I just can't do that program now with a busy gym.
We’ll I’ve been doin it 20 years and change before it had a name but that’s what I love in a crowded gym calling an audible often gives you a lift you didn’t expect
 
I trained in Metroflex and at Golds Arlington (where Ronnie actually did most of his training, MF was great for videos) now this was 2000-2003 and Gus and I would lift with often handing each other the heavy bells and such and I never once saw either write anything down. I got into instinctive more bc of guys like Titus, Ronnie, and Gus and I’m a decent bodybuilder but I doubt I’m in the genetic 1% physically. Logging is great if it works for you but by no means does one have to be a tier one guy to not log. Now the idea of walking around writing shit down instead of lifting and just grinding and vibing to my sets seems like work and for me the gym is my church, therapist, and favorite thing to do. I’m not saying logging isn’t great for those that do it but it’s not for me. As stated above we know what we lifted last week and last month so you know what your range is and for muscle confusion if I start with DB presses one week but do them after inclines, declines, and say pec Dec the next week my weight is gonna go down so logging would seem to be most effective for guys who do the same movements in the same order week after week and I intentionally avoid this practice.
I wish Golds was still there... They had so much equipment that I haven't seen before or since! I was just an idiot high-school school kid then (07-08) but you'd have big mfs coming by giving you spots and pointers, that was cool.
 
I wish Golds was still there... They had so much equipment that I haven't seen before or since! I was just an idiot high-school school kid then (07-08) but you'd have big mfs coming by giving you spots and pointers, that was cool.
Gokds Arlington was heaven. Everybody talks about Metroflex and it has its place but yea for that time it was monster vile and all the IFBB guys were cool except 1 that I won’t name. I was there til like 05 but I haven’t had a gym experience like that since though the GASP gym is supposedly like that. I imagine Dragons Lair is pimp too. But the was that Gokds was laid out was just perfect and every piece of equipment was legit, no space filler bullshit. I don’t think it went under I think the owners closed it for legal reasons there was a lot going on up there.
 

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