Insulin/metformin to reach ketosis

hilly2008 · Mar 2, 2009

Does any have any experience with this and a correct method of doing it??

I am running dave p version of keto 300g protein and 100g fat. less than 30g carbs. have been running this for 8 weeks with good weight loss.

" weeks ago after my refeed/cheat meal on a sat night i took 3 seperate insulin injections on the sunday of 2iu. one at 9am, one at 12 and one at 3pm. checked my blood suagrs at half 4 and they were 4.5.

went to bed later on woke up and was not in ketosis.

This sunday gone had my cheat meal sat night as usual. Took 450mg of metformin at 10am with breakfast then one at 2pm another at 5pm and one at half 7pm. blood sugars were 4.4 at 5pm in the afternoon.

went to bed woke up this morning and not in ketosis.

I can get into ketosis by tuesday/wed naturally but wanted to use one of these methods to get into ketosis quicker.

Does any1 have any advice or can see something i am doing wrong. I think i may not be dropping my blood sugars far enough as i read it may need dropping to 3.5

any help is much appreciated

hilly

hellraiser27 · Mar 2, 2009

I believe that would be a recipe for disaster! If your gonna use insulin you better have carbs in your body.

hilly2008 · Mar 2, 2009

I have used it already a 2 weeks ago and metformin this week like i said however i think my protocol is wrong.

i had no issues at all as have a blood sugar monitor so no disasters. i have seen many things on the internet about this and no it is implemented i am looking for people who have experience using this is all.

thnks

sizeon · Mar 2, 2009

i was wondering if your in ketosis and your diet is all godd but ya stopped working out lifting or cardio, could you come out of ketosis since your not burning up much

papapumpsd · Mar 2, 2009

Blood glucose levels should not be used to determine ketosis. If you're limiting CHOs (carbohydrates), then the pancreas will shift from producing insulin to glucagon. Ketosis actually normalizes blood glucose levels (thank Glucagon for that). Can you use ketosticks? I've read that they work for a while until the body becomes more efficient at fat burning and using ketones, then the urine spill-over of ketones is no longer avaiable for in vitro testing. Just because ketones are not showing up on ketosticks does not mean you're not burning triglycerides as a fuel source!

Here is a study you might want to review for more information on low-carb diets and BG levels and weight loss.
A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 88(4):1617–1623

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/88/4/1617

hilly2008 · Mar 3, 2009

thnks for the info mate.

i have been using the keto diet for 9 weeks now so this maybe why the ketosticks are not showing much.

Big A · Mar 3, 2009

As a rule, 3IU of HumR every 4 hours will get you in ketosis within 8 to 12 hours. No carbs obviously.

hilly2008 · Mar 3, 2009

BIG A

so if i start the jabs at say 8am in the morning and do 1 every 4 hours. last 1 will be 8pm will i be ok to go to bed by 11-12ish big A.

il check my blood sugars and keep them to below 4 if possible.

lucian · Mar 3, 2009

bro there are so many ways do diet and get lean why take the chance w slin or gluco? just doesnt make sense. imo, dont mess with this stuff. i have a bud who off 2 iu of slin almost put himself in a coma. you never know how your body will react. and if your asking these questions, it sounds like you dont have much expirience whith this stuff.
dont try it bro!

shawnkarbabacz · Mar 3, 2009

Is it possible to really reach ketosis on daves diet? My lean weight is about 195 and im eating 20g fat each meal with 40 grams protien. No carbs cept the fiber in spinach and whats in the 4 TBS of natty pb i use (so 14 from that i belive) and i havent, according to keto sticks, been able to reach it. I know theres the 80% fat 20% protien way of doing it but i didnt want to change my diet that drastically this close to my comp, bout a month and a half away. Am i doing something wrong with this diet?

hilly2008 · Mar 3, 2009

shawnkarbabacz said:
Is it possible to really reach ketosis on daves diet? My lean weight is about 195 and im eating 20g fat each meal with 40 grams protien. No carbs cept the fiber in spinach and whats in the 4 TBS of natty pb i use (so 14 from that i belive) and i havent, according to keto sticks, been able to reach it. I know theres the 80% fat 20% protien way of doing it but i didnt want to change my diet that drastically this close to my comp, bout a month and a half away. Am i doing something wrong with this diet?

i have been reaching ketosis on dave p's diet for the past 8 weeks and have averaged 2.6 pound a week loss.

shawnkarbabacz · Mar 3, 2009

so am i missing something with my diet above then?

hilly2008 · Mar 3, 2009

not if you are following dave's guidlines exact.

im sure he states 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat per pound of bodyweight. thats what i have been using and drinking 5+ litres of water per day.

jimmyjones · Mar 3, 2009

shawnkarbabacz said:
so am i missing something with my diet above then?

What you can try to do is 75% fat , 20% protein, 5% carbs for the first 3 days until you are in ketosis, and then once youre in you can up the protein to 35-40% for the last 2-3 days before carb-up, but dont up your protein UNTIL youre atleast in moderate ketosis. The high fat is what really causes you to fall into ketosis and create that initial metabolic shift.

shawnkarbabacz · Mar 3, 2009

yea thats the keto diet i read about. I guess ill try that. Im behind i think on my conditioning and im only 5 weeks out so i wanted to do the keto. Daves seemed less intense which is what i was going for, not because it was easier, but because i was coming in off a carb cycle and wasnt sure what that big of a change (that super high fat and low protien) would do. Well my refeed is tomorrow so ill make the adjustments on thursday then. Ive never found the refeed guidelines but i would think its about 2 grams carb/pd BW right? And no fat on refeed day.

papapumpsd · Mar 3, 2009

FYI: Clinical data suggests that keto diets don't work any better than a higer-carb diet (for weight loss) over the long-term (~>=12 months or so). So if you do a keto, you should consider going to a moderate carb diet for a while or some type of carb loading.

Big A · Mar 4, 2009

hilly2008 said:
so if i start the jabs at say 8am in the morning and do 1 every 4 hours. last 1 will be 8pm will i be ok to go to bed by 11-12ish big A.

il check my blood sugars and keep them to below 4 if possible.

That's correct. And yes, you'll be fine.

Big A · Mar 4, 2009

lucian said:
bro there are so many ways do diet and get lean why take the chance w slin or gluco? just doesnt make sense. imo, dont mess with this stuff. i have a bud who off 2 iu of slin almost put himself in a coma. you never know how your body will react. and if your asking these questions, it sounds like you dont have much expirience whith this stuff.
dont try it bro!

That's impossible on 2IU. He must have read the syringe wrong and injected 20IU.

hilly2008 · Mar 4, 2009

THNKS ALOT BIG A

Gunsmith · Mar 21, 2011

Just wanted to bump this up and ask if anybody has ever use Metformin/Glucophage to get i nto ketosis?

I diden think it would drop your blood glucose just help keep it low when carbs were presant.

I've heard of some guys using it with a small carb meal like 500mg with 50g carbs to stay in a keto state but allow them to have some carbs to start the day. I wish i would have read this earlier so i could have done some test with it to see. Maybe my next carb day i'll keep track of blood glucose before during and after carb meal with taking glucophage