Insulin pre + post

[beorn777]

I’m sitting around 7–9% body fat right now, rebounding out of a hard cut. Current macros are:


Training Days: 440P / 700C / 60F
Rest Days: 440P / 450C / 100F


These will go up as I push food, but for now it’s a pretty lean gain phase. I’ve been running Humulin-R ( Intra-muscular ) pre and post (10 units each) with 150g carbs pre, 50g intra, and 150g post, and honestly the results are coming on faster doing the IM shots than when I had access to humalog it's kinda wild.


My main question is: is it actually stupid to do pre + post insulin every single training day? Do you really become “desensitized” to it like some guys claim? There’s so much conflicting info out there, but the setup has been working extremely well so far.


Cycle:
– 1000 Test
– 350 DHB
– 600 EQ
– 10iu GH before bed
– 4mg Retatrutide
– 40mg Telmisartan
– 5mg Cialis


Just finished tapering off clen and adex. Still doing 45 minutes of cardio daily plus 10k steps.

Previously I worked with Justin Harris and did 3x insulin only on high days with 1000-1300 carbs but I'm coaching myself now and just trying new things to see how it goes and wanted some opinions, I have a pretty open mind just trying to not fuck myself over sensitivity wise but right now I'm very insulin sensitive.

 

[Sectør]

There’s people here much more experienced than me on this that will likely chime in.

I think if you’re already lean, doing it pre and post workout, and still doing your cardio + steps, and blood sugar stays manageable than it mostly likely won’t be an issue

The only thing you’ll really need to watch out for is insulin resistance. The more you use, the longer it stays active in your system, the higher likelihood this will start to mount, especially if you’re continuing to push the carbs up later into the phase.

There’s a lot of guys here that advocate for using it on the focus body parts 2-3x a week (such as leg/back days) and this is probably more of a safe bet for controlling insulin resistance but there’s also people here that do use it everyday and seem to be managing fine.

Also with Reta in the mix I’m sure you’ll be able to stay insulin sensitized for longer and probably keep blood sugar issues at bay.

So I don’t think there’s really a right or wrong answer as long as blood sugar is managed and insulin resistance never mounts.

 

[bbxtreme]

There’s really not much more than I can add that’s not in my thread.

All things insulin- my take, opinion and experience.

My take and experience on insulin What the hell do I know and why do I know it? I have been bodybuilding since I was 15 years old, a member here learning since 2007 and as my username implies am extreme and passionate about the sport. As a teenager I got 3 training/nutrition certifications to...

www.professionalmuscle.com

All I’ll add is that if I was you I’d use Justin’s AI to help you transition. It’s pretty sharp for guidance on things like this.

 

[claymore]

“I think if you’re already lean, doing it pre and post workout, and still doing your cardio + steps, and blood sugar stays manageable than it mostly likely won’t be an issue.” Agree 1000% with this Also “bbxtreme” thread is written extremely well in my opinion if you’re worried about becoming “desensitized” keep cycles to 4-6 weeks in length and possibly on use it three times a week

 

[SouthernMuscle]

My main question is: is it actually stupid to do pre + post insulin every single training day?

No

Do you really become “desensitized” to it like some guys claim?

No

 

[TheOtherOne55]

No reason to do pre and post using R. You’re basically overlapping insulin which isn’t helping you if it’s coming on to fast. I would make more sense to do that pre and then do that second shot of insulin maybe your 3rd or fourth meal. And depending on your carb total you can handle probably far more than 10iu. I do 2 big R shots to cover my high days, and I’m a Justin client myself.

 

[beorn777]

No reason to do pre and post using R. You’re basically overlapping insulin which isn’t helping you if it’s coming on to fast. I would make more sense to do that pre and then do that second shot of insulin maybe your 3rd or fourth meal. And depending on your carb total you can handle probably far more than 10iu. I do 2 big R shots to cover my high days, and I’m a Justin client myself.

I'm doing it IM which reduces the half life to basically the same as log, I was skeptical but this shit hits faster and harder than log. I get what your saying though it took a few days to get the timings right but I've got it pretty good now. I'm just tired of doing the high days after 3 years of doing it I'm just trying to do a rest day and training day diet and no fats around training. I was at 9500 calories doing 5 high days a week with Justin for a while, every meal red meat I just don't want to get over 310 again and keep it a little simpler.

 

[beorn777]

There’s really not much more than I can add that’s not in my thread.

All things insulin- my take, opinion and experience.

My take and experience on insulin What the hell do I know and why do I know it? I have been bodybuilding since I was 15 years old, a member here learning since 2007 and as my username implies am extreme and passionate about the sport. As a teenager I got 3 training/nutrition certifications to...

www.professionalmuscle.com

All I’ll add is that if I was you I’d use Justin’s AI to help you transition. It’s pretty sharp for guidance on things like this.

Reading it all now, I've considered the AI plan but honestly I've been having fun testing some stuff solo without a coach for now. I got very lean ( a week out from my show I developed some gyno and had to nip it which ruined everything ) and just tried different forms of cardio and different diets on the way down which you can't really do with a coach or your a terrible client lol.

 

[beorn777]

There’s people here much more experienced than me on this that will likely chime in.

I think if you’re already lean, doing it pre and post workout, and still doing your cardio + steps, and blood sugar stays manageable than it mostly likely won’t be an issue

The only thing you’ll really need to watch out for is insulin resistance. The more you use, the longer it stays active in your system, the higher likelihood this will start to mount, especially if you’re continuing to push the carbs up later into the phase.

There’s a lot of guys here that advocate for using it on the focus body parts 2-3x a week (such as leg/back days) and this is probably more of a safe bet for controlling insulin resistance but there’s also people here that do use it everyday and seem to be managing fine.

Also with Reta in the mix I’m sure you’ll be able to stay insulin sensitized for longer and probably keep blood sugar issues at bay.

So I don’t think there’s really a right or wrong answer as long as blood sugar is managed and insulin resistance never mounts.

Yeah I suppose I just need to test out everyday vs some days and see which I like better, like you said I don't think theres a right answer and I'm probably over thinking everything while my estrogen is coming back. I get this weird anxiety adhd brain and it takes awhile to normalize, super annoying.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I'm doing it IM which reduces the half life to basically the same as log, I was skeptical but this shit hits faster and harder than log. I get what your saying though it took a few days to get the timings right but I've got it pretty good now. I'm just tired of doing the high days after 3 years of doing it I'm just trying to do a rest day and training day diet and no fats around training. I was at 9500 calories doing 5 high days a week with Justin for a while, every meal red meat I just don't want to get over 310 again and keep it a little simpler.

Dude I get it lol Justin and I are making an attempt to stay under 320 this offseason. But back to your questions. Is it dumb to do pre and post everyday? I don’t think so. You’re just optimizing nutrients around the most important part of your day. It works. Keep doing it. You are not going to desensitize yourself. Look at diabetics. They aren’t eventually titrating up to 100s of ius of slin. If u use log every workout, you’re A-OK. Also, you seem like a smart guy and are using reta and probably some berberine to maintain insulin sensitivity being this big. Swear you’re fine.

 

[need4tren]

Using a bit of slin pre is always gonna be beneficial, post I don’t see much need as your gonna be able to absorb everything you throw at your body and I’ve noticed desensitization fast when using pre and post every training day. But back then I was also using up to 30 iu pre and post. I would advise if your doing it every training day to use it just pre with gh, or just post, with gh, obviously you want to use it with gh. But there’s no point in dosing gh pre and post workout it’s way to close together

 

[luki7788]

Insulin before and after training is something I use with 90% of my clients, and I’ve personally been doing it nonstop for about 15 years. “Desensitization”? Lol. If your insulin sensitivity stays high, that simply doesn’t exist. People just keep repeating old myths from the 2000s because they have no real understanding of human physiology.


The only note as someone already said above - using Humulin R both before and after training makes no sense. A larger single dose covering the whole pre/intra/post window works better.
If you want to use it both before and after, then go with Humalog.

 

[jl9987]

Insulin before and after training is something I use with 90% of my clients, and I’ve personally been doing it nonstop for about 15 years. “Desensitization”? Lol. If your insulin sensitivity stays high, that simply doesn’t exist. People just keep repeating old myths from the 2000s because they have no real understanding of human physiology.


The only note as someone already said above - using Humulin R both before and after training makes no sense. A larger single dose covering the whole pre/intra/post window works better.
If you want to use it both before and after, then go with Humalog.

Would you still try utilise in a cutting/recomp/maintenance/gaining phase as long as the carbs are there to support the need for it?

Why would someone choose Humalog over say humulin r if they had access to both? Seems as you mentioned larger dose pre would make more sense.

If adding insulin and one is mainly bolus dosing GH pre bed and using IGF LR3 post workout, how would you adjust that?

Thanks

 

[luki7788]

Would you still try utilise in a cutting/recomp/maintenance/gaining phase as long as the carbs are there to support the need for it?

Why would someone choose Humalog over say humulin r if they had access to both? Seems as you mentioned larger dose pre would make more sense.

If adding insulin and one is mainly bolus dosing GH pre bed and using IGF LR3 post workout, how would you adjust that?

Thanks

Bro I answer again, even though these same questions come up non-stop, over and over, lol.

So here’s the simple version:
I use Humalog before and after training insulin around training is something I use in every phase: cutting, maintenance, off-season, whatever. I do it all year, and most of my clients do the same.

Why Humalog instead of Humulin-R?
Honestly, just availability. In Poland it’s way easier to get Humalog, NovoRapid or anything with a similar fast profile. If you have good access to Humulin-R, then use Humulin-R.
If you’re in the U.S., where Humulin-R is sold over the counter, you can simply use one bigger dose of Humulin-R with your pre-workout meal. It will cover the whole pre/intra/post window pretty well. That’s basically the same outcome as using Humalog pre and post. Nothing complicated.

About GH + IGF-1 LR3:
It doesn’t really matter when you inject GH. Do it whenever it’s convenient for you. I personally prefer pre-workout I explained why many times, but honestly it’s not critical. LR3 doesn’t care about timing at all, because it stays active for so long. And insulin stays the same every time before and after training.

That’s it, bro. Don’t overthink simple things.

 

[beorn777]

Insulin before and after training is something I use with 90% of my clients, and I’ve personally been doing it nonstop for about 15 years. “Desensitization”? Lol. If your insulin sensitivity stays high, that simply doesn’t exist. People just keep repeating old myths from the 2000s because they have no real understanding of human physiology.


The only note as someone already said above - using Humulin R both before and after training makes no sense. A larger single dose covering the whole pre/intra/post window works better.
If you want to use it both before and after, then go with Humalog.

Appreciate the response, ive just only used insulin one way for three years so it feels weird to change and wanted some confirmation.

Im using the humulin r intra muscular so it acts similar to humalog and it seems to be pretty close, you think its better to just do a bigger dose sub q pre only? It seems it hits pretty fast and clears about 30 minutes slower which is basically the same?

Im in Canada and they won't give you humalog without a script.

 

[luki7788]

Appreciate the response, ive just only used insulin one way for three years so it feels weird to change and wanted some confirmation.

Im using the humulin r intra muscular so it acts similar to humalog and it seems to be pretty close, you think its better to just do a bigger dose sub q pre only? It seems it hits pretty fast and clears about 30 minutes slower which is basically the same?

Im in Canada and they won't give you humalog without a script.

Bro, if you have access to Humulin-R, use it only before training, in a dose that matches your carbs from the pre, intra, and post meals. Using Humulin-R intramuscularly is not the same as using Humalog trust me on that.

And honestly, I already answered this question before. I don’t know why you wanted to hear the same thing again, but fine.

 

[beorn777]

Bro, if you have access to Humulin-R, use it only before training, in a dose that matches your carbs from the pre, intra, and post meals. Using Humulin-R intramuscularly is not the same as using Humalog trust me on that.

And honestly, I already answered this question before. I don’t know why you wanted to hear the same thing again, but fine.

I’ll try one larger Humulin R IM dose pre-workout and see how it feels. The studies on IM regular insulin show it hits pretty quickly not as fast as Humalog, but fast enough that I can go hypo in 10–15 minutes.
So if someone normally uses 15 units of Humalog pre and post (30 total), would they just take 30 units of Humulin R instead and not risk going hypo during the session?

I always did pre 200 carbs 50 intra 200 post type setup prior but I never took enough R to cover both just the pre and intra.

Just a knew setup for me is all, trying not to mess it all up.

 

[claymore]

No reason to do pre and post using R. You’re basically overlapping insulin which isn’t helping you if it’s coming on to fast. I would make more sense to do that pre and then do that second shot of insulin maybe your 3rd or fourth meal. And depending on your carb total you can handle probably far more than 10iu. I do 2 big R shots to cover my high days, and I’m a Justin client myself.

“No reason to do pre and post using R.” Agreed

 

[luki7788]

I’ll try one larger Humulin R IM dose pre-workout and see how it feels. The studies on IM regular insulin show it hits pretty quickly not as fast as Humalog, but fast enough that I can go hypo in 10–15 minutes.
So if someone normally uses 15 units of Humalog pre and post (30 total), would they just take 30 units of Humulin R instead and not risk going hypo during the session?

I always did pre 200 carbs 50 intra 200 post type setup prior but I never took enough R to cover both just the pre and intra.

Just a knew setup for me is all, trying not to mess it all up.

15IU with pre workout meal (~90min before training)
10IU right before gym and start drinking intra

That’s what I will do in that scenario

 

[anarchocapitalist]

I'm Canadian and I get Humalog without a script.
I've only used Humalog for a couple years now, so I'm far from an expert.
I don't like pre-workout insulin. I can't get a good pump with food in my stomach.
I work a muscle twice a week, I take 10-14iu Humalog post workout on my weak muscle groups. So when I use it I only use it 3-4 times a week.
Post workout and I just eat a shit ton of carbs.