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Insulin resistance , when and how

Gunsmith

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
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Kilo Klub Member
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Jul 30, 2006
Messages
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We hear insulin resistance mentioned alot and we all know it's a bad thing

Let's discuss exactly what it is , what we do that causes it and what we can do to fix it.

Does taking exogenous insulin actually cause it.??
Can taking exogenous insulin to lower chronic high BG help fix it.??
Can carb cycling or even carb timing help fix it.??
At what point when taking exogenous HGH do we need to add take insulin to lower BG.??
Exactly when do we know we are actually insulin resistant.??
Once we do figure out we are fighting insulin resistance what can we do to fix it.??
 
My .02 below

We hear insulin resistance mentioned alot and we all know it's a bad thing

Let's discuss exactly what it is , what we do that causes it and what we can do to fix it.

Does taking exogenous insulin actually cause it.??
No. Unless it was extremely excessive for long periods of time. Small amounts continuous and/or using 8-10iu 2 days a week for week body parts will not affect it.
Can taking exogenous insulin to lower chronic high BG help fix it.??
I don't think this is a good idea. A person is better off fixing the root problem. Also, I feel a postprandial reading (2:30-2:45 after meals) is more accurate that a morning fasted reading due to some people getting a "dawning" effect.
Can carb cycling or even carb timing help fix it.??
It could help. If it needs to be fixed this would just be 1 piece of the puzzle and not a total fix.
At what point when taking exogenous HGH do we need to add take insulin to lower BG.??
Technically never if you don't have any issues. I think it makes sense to not run GH high (6+iu) all the time. Take some breaks down to 2iu for a while. While cruising I always drop my dose to 2-3iu.

I think running Lantus for this would make the most sense. I've done quite a few Lantus runs and really like it. Note: I have not used Lantus to correct BG but rather to give fullness to my physical and help nutrient shuttling.
Exactly when do we know we are actually insulin resistant.??
Once we do figure out we are fighting insulin resistance what can we do to fix it.??
Easily gaining fat, increased visceral fat, high trigs
 
It looks like we need to activate selective parts of the Unfolded Protein pathway. Cytoskeleton stress activates it along with the kinds of inflammation which makes for insulin resistance. Also it is activated to fix all the messed up and misfolded proteins that your steroid-filled body hurries to synthesize. Obviously it is no compromise to fix those errors, but it is the rest of the excessive activation of Unfolded Protein pathway that leads to insulin resistance. This is a key point for balancing the overall health of your system's integrity.
 
My .02 below


No. Unless it was extremely excessive for long periods of time. Small amounts continuous and/or using 8-10iu 2 days a week for week body parts will not affect it.

I don't think this is a good idea. A person is better off fixing the root problem. Also, I feel a postprandial reading (2:30-2:45 after meals) is more accurate that a morning fasted reading due to some people getting a "dawning" effect.

It could help. If it needs to be fixed this would just be 1 piece of the puzzle and not a total fix.

Technically never if you don't have any issues. I think it makes sense to not run GH high (6+iu) all the time. Take some breaks down to 2iu for a while. While cruising I always drop my dose to 2-3iu.

I think running Lantus for this would make the most sense. I've done quite a few Lantus runs and really like it. Note: I have not used Lantus to correct BG but rather to give fullness to my physical and help nutrient shuttling.

Easily gaining fat, increased visceral fat, high trigs
Agree with this.
 
ive just listened to a podcast about glp-1 agonists.
The longer acting ones like semaglutide, duraglutide also seem to have a pronounced effect on insulin sensitivty/resistance in addition to being
anti inflammatory etc.
if they were easier to get i would use them
 
I don't think this is a good idea. A person is better off fixing the root problem. Also, I feel a postprandial reading (2:30-2:45 after meals) is more accurate that a morning fasted reading due to some people getting a "dawning" effect.
What postprandial reading numbers (2:30-2:45 after meals), do you like to see?
 
add DNP to this, prob one of the easiest/best ways of resetting insulin sensitivity

Do you think DNP is effective for reducing insulin resistance due to the way it force the body to process carbs , or simply how effective it is at reducing body fat??
 
ive just listened to a podcast about glp-1 agonists.
The longer acting ones like semaglutide, duraglutide also seem to have a pronounced effect on insulin sensitivty/resistance in addition to being
anti inflammatory etc.
if they were easier to get i would use them
Would you happen to have a link to that.??
 
Would you happen to have a link to that.??
sure.

there are recently alot of studies done on the GLP-1 agonists. Semaglutide is, in my opinion, the best one of all of them.
 
cant edit but wanted to add something to my post:
its hard to find studies on "normal" people. Since it is used to treat diabetes and obesity, all of the studies out there are done on those people.
I have ordered 2 pens a 1mg yesterday and will start to use it november first @ 0,25mg weekly for the first 6 months, then up the dosage to 0,5mg weekly.
I am most interested in the anti inflammatory effects, the effects on insulin sensitivity and the cardiac benefits it offers.
the only thing i dont like about it is the price. it is unbelievable expensive
 
What postprandial reading numbers (2:30-2:45 after meals), do you like to see?

I'd say the more under 90 at 2:30-2:45 the better. The literature says something like 130 2 hours after but I think that's ok for normal persons not BB's.

I just spot check it every so often at home. On my last 2 set of labs taken at Quest, I was 75 and 44. This was about 1:45-2 hours after meal #1. I felt just fine at 44 but other times I've gone hypo and can feel it south of 60.
 
1. Does taking exogenous insulin actually cause it.??
2. Can taking exogenous insulin to lower chronic high BG help fix it.??
3. Can carb cycling or even carb timing help fix it.??
4. At what point when taking exogenous HGH do we need to add take insulin to lower BG.??
5. Exactly when do we know we are actually insulin resistant.??
6. Once we do figure out we are fighting insulin resistance what can we do to fix it.??

From my limited knowledge of prediabetes. I keep carbs low so my A1C is always low < 4-5% and insulin sensitivity stays pretty high. I've never experienced insulin resistance. But from my experience with insulin:

1. Normal doses unlikely but I think getting a lengthy break from insulin spikes altogether is important.
2. In the short-term yeah and fast-acting insulin can speed up the time it takes to lower your bg. But what you really need is extended periods of low bg (weeks and months). Then insulin and metabolic factors will decrease and with diet, stay low until sensitivity slowly improves.
3. Of course. You should be doing this anyway IMO. If you're active like we are, insulin resistance is entirely diet related unless you're diabetic.
4. hGH timing not all that important in my experience, insulin timing much more important but again, you're lighting your cells up with exogenous insulin. Lower your bs and you'll need no or very little insulin timed PWO.
5. When bg stays consistently high from insulin resistance, we lose transportation of nutrients into cells and begin to store them as fat. Check your A1C (test kits available on amazon for 60 bucks for 4 tests A1CNow brand) to get some idea of where your bg has been.
6. Diet again, is key. No simple sugars. Drop pre, intra, post WO simple sugars significantly. You can still have them to maintain good recovery (with or without insulin) but are we growing or recovering our insulin sensitivity? Fast from carbs or do intermittent fasting (cycling, CKD, keto). Do not eat fats and carbs simultaneously on a daily basis. I make that a permanent rule at least for myself. Careful with grains, legumes, and nuts that contain lectins like gluten and WGA and other possible inflammatories and stick to meats (animal proteins in general) and healthy fats, lower glycemic carbs. This is really basic stuff.

Possible supplements/meds:
Lantus (if used sparingly and properly)
Resveratrol
Metformin

If you're concerned about about diabetes in general, here is some relevant additional info on beta cell function and c-peptide sampling for determination of pancreatic function:

"An ADA-sponsored workshop in 2001 concluded unanimously that c-peptide estimation be used as the most appropriate outcome measure for preservation of beta cell function. In recent guidelines developed by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) and American College of Endocrinology (ACE), documenting the levels of c-peptide is recommended when there is doubt over the diagnosis T1 or T2DM. A recent systematic review supported the diagnostic utility of c-peptide, recommending its use as the principal baseline measure of insulin deficiency

Conclusions
C-peptide is a useful indicator of beta cell function, allowing discrimination between insulin-sufficient and insulin-deficient individuals with diabetes
. Various methods of sampling are available, including a urinary c-peptide to creatinine ratio, fasting serum c-peptide, and stimulated c-peptide. Owing to sensitivity, reproducibility, and convenience of the test, we would recommend glucagon stimulation testing in clinical practice. C-peptide has been shown to correlate with diabetes type, duration of disease, and age of diagnosis. Interestingly c-peptide has been demonstrated to be associated with microvascular complications. This requires further study but preliminary evidence suggests that alongside HbA1C, sampling for c-peptide can be used as an integral diagnostic and monitoring tool."
 
I'd say the more under 90 at 2:30-2:45 the better. The literature says something like 130 2 hours after but I think that's ok for normal persons not BB's.

I just spot check it every so often at home. On my last 2 set of labs taken at Quest, I was 75 and 44. This was about 1:45-2 hours after meal #1. I felt just fine at 44 but other times I've gone hypo and can feel it south of 60.

You're right. I've always read that BG should be under 130 2 hours post-meal, but it's probably true that, for bodybuilders, it'd be better to have those numbers lower than that. I was told that under 115 were fine for us though.

Wow, 44 is quite low. I can't believe you did not go hypo.
 
@Gunsmith this may or may not interest you.

interesting

not the first time I have read about taking only whey isolate post workout.

I definitely agree with waiting 30-60 min after working out to allow the parasympathetic side of the nervous system to start taking back over
 
@Gunsmith this may or may not interest you.


gave this a brief read, at the end it turns into a plug for the guys "best ever whey protein" . id take that with a grain of salt if he wrote that to plug a supplement.

my opinion, the whole pre and post workout window has been overanalyzed to the nth degree. It started when supplement companies started coming out with pre-workouts, faster and faster digesting protein powders, ones that didn't need digesting, tBCAA boxes, then the lightest lowest molecular weight carb sources being sold.

I forget which guy it was but one of the "evidence based gurus" basically said as long as you get some food in and aren't training fasted the whole anabolic window does not matter in real life. As long as you don't eat a bunch of fat before you train or not eat 24 hours before you train you should be fine, it's not bad to optimize pre and post nutrition but nothing to stress about 30, 60, 2 hours just get calories and protein in.
 

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