Insulin resistance , when and how

[aphextwin]

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I wonder how much an impact some like cardarine might have on insulin sensitivity.

 

[FK86]

interesting

not the first time I have read about taking only whey isolate post workout.

I definitely agree with waiting 30-60 min after working out to allow the parasympathetic side of the nervous system to start taking back over

Yeah, I think the first time I read about CPWO was from DatbTrue. Not on his actual board because it's no longer active, but over at Tmuscle, a UK board. I've been doing it for three years and I love it. I'm convinced it helps in keeping my waist tight. I also don't feel like shit like I did with post-workout carbs regardless of source or quantity. I don't do any intra stuff anymore either. Just water when I train and whey isolate an hour after my workout. Then back to regular meals. I've given both approaches a fair run and there is no difference whatsoever in the success of my workouts. So I'll gladly save money and feel better. That's just me.

 

[Gunsmith]

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I wonder how much an impact some like cardarine might have on insulin sensitivity.

I've never researched anything on it for that , I guess it's fat loss effects would put it in the "+1" collum. Not sure by what other mechanism it would have an effect
I'm sure some with alot more experience with it would know , probably Mike Arnold

 

[aphextwin]

I've never researched anything on it for that , I guess it's fat loss effects would put it in the "+1" collum. Not sure by what other mechanism it would have an effect
I'm sure some with alot more experience with it would know , probably Mike Arnold

@Mike Arnold, love to hear his thoughts.

 

[ferd]

Could it be the huge amount of carbs taken daily, for months and months, year after year, maybe for decades? The pancreas can olny take so much. At some point the beta cells give up. Insulin resistance is a sign of pre-diabetes or full blown diabetes.

 

[juggy38]

DatBtruenwasna huge believer in not replenishing glycogen post workout.

We would workout, 50-75g whey isolate with 2-3iu insulin, then a couple hours later do something like egg white and veggie omelet.

Dats theory…was if you do no replete the glycogen, insulin sensitivity would stay high until glycogen was restored. Also, this COULD possibly keep amino acid sensitivity higher over that period…called it something like the “cell full” effect or something.

So that 12-24 hours post workout, insulin sensitivity is high, amino acid sensitivity is high (theorized) and due to glycogen and liver depletion from the workout, fat oxidation rates a skewed towards fat due to depleted glycogen.

The insulin was there just to stop the catabolic cascade that the workout creates, and to help drive nutrients.

Where it shined, was the fasted cardio or intermittent fast the next day after training then not repletion carbs….you basically start tapping into fat stores rolling out of bed.


We had many guys doing it. In think Con was the only competitor on the board back then….mostly scientific meatheads that liked to experiment.

It was very effective for recomping, the hardest part was eating basically whey, egg whites and chicken post workout.

Then…later the next day you bring carbs in….refilling the glycogen stores, topping off the liver, and then training again (different body part). And starting the process over

Anywho….that was the gist of it

 

[NGL34]

Do you think DNP is effective for reducing insulin resistance due to the way it force the body to process carbs , or simply how effective it is at reducing body fat??

Just thinking out loud, bare with me...yes since carbs are thrown off as heat (instead of stored with the help of insulin) it makes since that your bodies demand for insulin goes down leading to overall lower insulin levels. Less circulating insulin leads to increase insulin sensitivity. Fat loss alone improves insulin sensitivity. So the combination is a effective way to increase insulin sensitivity.

I would of never thought of using dnp to improve insulin sensitivity until it was said here. Thank you to the guy that posted that.

 

[NGL34]

gave this a brief read, at the end it turns into a plug for the guys "best ever whey protein" . id take that with a grain of salt if he wrote that to plug a supplement.

my opinion, the whole pre and post workout window has been overanalyzed to the nth degree. It started when supplement companies started coming out with pre-workouts, faster and faster digesting protein powders, ones that didn't need digesting, tBCAA boxes, then the lightest lowest molecular weight carb sources being sold.

I forget which guy it was but one of the "evidence based gurus" basically said as long as you get some food in and aren't training fasted the whole anabolic window does not matter in real life. As long as you don't eat a bunch of fat before you train or not eat 24 hours before you train you should be fine, it's not bad to optimize pre and post nutrition but nothing to stress about 30, 60, 2 hours just get calories and protein in.

Perinutrion is highly overated, imo. The only time I see it had any real practical use is when insulin is in the equation.

 

[qbkilla]

Perinutrion is highly overated, imo. The only time I see it had any real practical use is when insulin is in the equation.

Agree 100 percent. I feel like too many people obsess over the details of having exotic mixes before, during, after workout.

I used 2 online trainers many years ago. One was big on pre, during, and post workout nutrition and sold the mixes.

The other who I got better results with was Alex a who jist had me eat food before end after a hard training session. I believe at one point Alex had me eating steak and pasta post workout to get more calories, wasn't worried about the fat in steak slowing down digestion 10 percent jist wanted me to get a good solid meal rich in protein and carbs post workout.

 

[Dipp20]

@juggy38

3IU fast acting insulin with just 50-75g whey? Holy shit, that wouldnt work for me, especially not post workout.

Sounds kinda crazy, I wouldnt try it.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Perinutrion is highly overated, imo. The only time I see it had any real practical use is when insulin is in the equation.

My high tech workout drink is 4 scoops of Gatorade in a gallon of water. I do take BCAA/EAA/leucine before I leave for the gym though. I simply have no need for insulin now as I already have most of the size in terms of bodyweight (not composition) that I want and my recovery time is still good. Things get interesting post-workout. About 30 minutes after my workout or cardio, I begin to feel some pretty intense hunger. I know then that my bg and insulin are dropping fast and that's my largest meal window. I can fast through it (weight loss) or satiate it (weight gain or neutral). This is all done through a feedback loop primarily by ghrelin which in addition to regulating appetite, is also a fairly potent growth hormone secretagogue. Nothing compared to 2-4ius of hGH but still significant. People neglect gut health but truly, it's a very important and quite a significant organ in terms of endogenous peptides. See published article and figure below:

Figure 2


The regulation of secretion and actions of ghrelin on the gut-brain axis Ghrelin has been recognized as an important regulator of GH secretion and energy balance. Orexigenic and adipogenic ghrelin is produced by and released from the stomach in response to fasting and hypoglycemia. Ghrelin and leptin regulate gastric motility, appetite, and body weight by counter-regulating the same hypothalamic signals such as neuropeptide Y (NPY) and agouti-related peptide (AGRP), the two extraordinarily potent orexigenic peptides that simultaneously decrease energy ex¬penditure. NPY and AGRP are coproduced in the arcuate nucleus (ARC) and act in the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) and adjacent hypothalamic areas such as the lateral hypothalamic area (LHA) in which orexin neurons exist. The NPY/ AgRP neurons transduce changes of body fat contents (as communicated by leptin and insulin) into adaptive feeding responses. Ghrelin is a novel neuroendocrine peptide that links the gastrointestinal system and the hypothalamic orexigenic pathway. Other gastrointestinal peptides such as glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), cholecystokinin (CCK) -8, peptide YY (PYY)3-36 and pancreatic polypeptide (PP) produces satiety through endocrine and/or neural pathways. Plus signs denote stimulatory input, and minus signs inhibitory input. Positive and negative regulators of body adiposity are shown as red and blue, respectively. VMH, ventromedial hypothala¬mus; DVC, dorsal vagal complex.

Full article click here: Ghrelin, appetite, and gastric motility: the emerging role of the stomach as an endocrine organ

My personal goal has always been athletic in nature primarily to simply see how much strength and endurance I could squeeze out of my 200-240lb body. Turns out (and with some chemical help) it's quite a lot (as it is for most people). Although my days of flying the globe summiting mountains and climbing rock faces or deadlifting and squatting maximum poundages are over, I still intend to ride this train all the way in. We can choose to go out with a bang or a whimper.

 

[Dugbet]

Perinutrion is highly overated, imo. The only time I see it had any real practical use is when insulin is in the equation.

It's fun to see how so many natural gym rats became obsessed with having vitargo, creatine and amino acids around their training ... while not doing gear, much less insulin.

 

[qbkilla]

It's fun to see how so many natural gym rats became obsessed with having vitargo, creatine and amino acids around their training ... while not doing gear, much less insulin.

Lol. They spend 3x as much on supplements to get 1 10th the results. Gotta make sure the fast acting carbs spike the insulin to get the low molecular weight protein into the muscles in record time after 30 half as sets all while sipping the intra workout mix to increase anabolism .0001 percent

 

[juggy38]

@juggy38

3IU fast acting insulin with just 50-75g whey? Holy shit, that wouldnt work for me, especially not post workout.

Sounds kinda crazy, I wouldnt try it.

Oh no no. Humulin-R. And that’s why the egg whites and veggies about 90 minutes later. Plenty of carbs to cover 2iu humulin.

 

[M@NU]

Oh no no. Humulin-R. And that’s why the egg whites and veggies about 90 minutes later. Plenty of carbs to cover 2iu humulin.

2 iu should be no issue if one is on hgh.
many guys do that pre fasted cardio with l-carnitine injection.

 

[Dugbet]

Lol. They spend 3x as much on supplements to get 1 10th the results. Gotta make sure the fast acting carbs spike the insulin to get the low molecular weight protein into the muscles in record time after 30 half as sets all while sipping the intra workout mix to increase anabolism .0001 percent

Those supplements stacks were extremely expensive and useless, what a great marketing stunt.

Vitargo, the new low molecular weight hydrate created by a Swedish laboratory .... what a great shit, what a great way to sell potatoes at the price of gold.

 

[qbkilla]

Those supplements stacks were extremely expensive and useless, what a great marketing stunt.

Vitargo, the new low molecular weight hydrate created by a Swedish laboratory .... what a great shit, what a great way to sell potatoes at the price of gold.

Agree with this, total calories are what matter most. timing matters but no one IMO Is going to gain more LBM in a year because they took low molecular weight powder vs eating a whole meal post workout. Insulin use can change the need for carb timing, but this should be factored into the diet and carb intake so someone does't need to drink 3 magic (and expensive) shakes.

Some kids put more effort into mixing their pre, during, and post workout concoctions than they do in their workout. LOL

 

[danieltx]

Those supplements stacks were extremely expensive and useless, what a great marketing stunt.

Vitargo, the new low molecular weight hydrate created by a Swedish laboratory .... what a great shit, what a great way to sell potatoes at the price of gold.

Agree with this, total calories are what matter most. timing matters but no one IMO Is going to gain more LBM in a year because they took low molecular weight powder vs eating a whole meal post workout. Insulin use can change the need for carb timing, but this should be factored into the diet and carb intake so someone does't need to drink 3 magic (and expensive) shakes.

Some kids put more effort into mixing their pre, during, and post workout concoctions than they do in their workout. LOL

When you're trying to get as big as possible intraworkout carbs are an easy way to add hundreds of easily digested calories to you diet, plus they have performance benefits. If carb powders let you get in more carbs than otherwise possible, then yeah, you can add more LBM in a year.

I know you two aren't trying to be big bodybuilders but that's what this board is about and the idea that they're 'useless' is simply not true.

 

[qbkilla]

When you're trying to get as big as possible intraworkout carbs are an easy way to add hundreds of easily digested calories to you diet, plus they have performance benefits. If carb powders let you get in more carbs than otherwise possible, then yeah, you can add more LBM in a year.

I know you two aren't trying to be big bodybuilders but that's what this board is about and the idea that they're 'useless' is simply not true.

I do agree with the point you made, the liquid carbs timed around the workout are good for people pushing calories high 6,7k who can't possibly eat that much food. You guys need more calories than smaller guys and eating all of them can be impossible and bad for digestion. I don't think though that hydro vs isolate, or a low molecular weight powder vs regular dextrose (or even Gatorade) will give someone more mass because they have been designed to digest slightly faster. Do you agree with this or do you think the products promoted to digest extremely fast and give better gains actually will give your LBM>

 

[danieltx]

I do agree with the point you made, the liquid carbs timed around the workout are good for people pushing calories high 6,7k who can't possibly eat that much food. You guys need more calories than smaller guys and eating all of them can be impossible and bad for digestion. I don't think though that hydro vs isolate, or a low molecular weight powder vs regular dextrose (or even Gatorade) will give someone more mass because they have been designed to digest slightly faster. Do you agree with this or do you think the products promoted to digest extremely fast and give better gains actually will give your LBM>

I've used Karbolyn and Gatorade and don't have an issue digesting either, and right now it's normally 150g of carbs intraworkout. Some do have digestion issues with them though.

I think you're looking at it in a too specific manner. If a product digests quicker it means your stomach empties quicker and you can get in the next meal quicker. Sometimes that can be the difference in fitting in one extra meal for the day and that can definitely mean more LBM.