Intensifiers and HIIT cardio... do you do them?

[Josefein421]

Love your training threads BTW!

I also count rp as 3 sets. I find it fascinating that rp is so affective at increasing strength...because it is the complete opposite of 5x5 , where you hit the same movement more frequently but not to failure. Both are linear progression and work well. Perhaps the reason rp works so well isn't rp itself but the overall structure of dc training where you rotate lifts and hit every major muscle 1.5x a week (2 way split) with relatively low volume and brutal intensity?

Another one id like to hear people's thoughts on is giant sets (milos)

Guy a
3 sets ohp
3 sets upright rows
3 sets side lateral raises
3 sets cable y raises

Guy b
Ohp )upright row) lateral raise) y raise
4 exercise one after another minimal rest, wait 2 minutes then do 2 more rounds

Both dudes do same volume, 12 sets, same exercises...who grows more? Guy A will probably progression faster in weight used. Guy b will get it done quicker probably get a better pump, maybe more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy if you believe it happens.

Guy b has the advantage of getting done those 12 sets quicker so can probably do 2 more exercises before Guy A finishes with his 12 sets so he can jack up volume.

Thanks man! I try to mix it up but really it just stems from my own curiosity trying to glean info from the great lifters we have here.

People that train with Milos love it but I wonder it if it along the lines of more work for the sake of more work. Like your example... could the same progress be made without the giant sets. Or as Luki mentions below are all those giants sets and the extreme demand just tapping recovery? I personally never liked super sets or giant sets because after each round the weights seem to be drastically different for each exercise. Like if I bench 135x10 on the first set of the first exercise but then do 3 more moves in then giant set... when I come back to the next round that 135x10 might be 135x4 or I need to change the weight but then the next 3 moves are all effected. Blah blah. I think too much calculating when I am huffing and puffing lol.

Right now I almost don’t use them at all. Maybe sometimes in a few exercises that I tolerate well, like leg curl or leg extension, but generally I prefer to just do one extra simple, classic set close to failure.

Intensifiers are good, but when you get older, they often don’t bring anything positive. They just make recovery longer, because they hit the nervous system hard, and they can also beat up your tendons and ligaments. And for me this is key now, because I’m much older.
I really use intensifiers only when I travel, when I can’t do a normal workout. Like in a hotel gym with limited equipment, and I need to train faster. Then I use supersets, combo sets, drop sets, and anything that comes to my mind.

One thing I still use sometimes is rest-pause. For example on leg press: I do a heavy set for 8–10 reps. I’m at rep 8 and I feel I have maybe 1–2 reps left, but if I push them straight, my form and tempo will break. So I prefer rest-pause: I rest around 20 seconds, do 2 more reps, rest 10–20 seconds, and do 1–2 more reps again.
This way, instead of doing 9 sloppy reps, I do 11–12 reps with much better quality, and all of them are very close to failure.

About intervals I never do them. I only do LISS. I do a lot of steps, very low heart rate work, and it works great for me. I really regret not doing this when I was competing.

CV health is the main reason- I think it’s a major part of why I’m healthy at SHW size.

Also conditioning for leg and back training- i never get gassed before my quads, lats, etc actually fail.

Definitely feel a body comp and nutrient partitioning benefit. Ie body comp is better with HIIT and a bit more food than if I just dropped both.

Super interesting... 2 SHW that are super strong and 2 different approaches as I know Dave loves his intensifiers. I think anecdotally we see that they work... too many DC/Mountain Dog success stories to dispute. Could those guys have made the same progress with straight sets? I dont know. I think Luki hit it on the head at least for me... the CNS recovery. I would use them as much as I can as long as I can recover. I think at 43 I definitely cannot recover like I did 10 years ago.

As for HIIT... I dont really recall many if any SHW doing HIIT. I am not exactly friends with dozens of SHW competitors though so take my experience for what it is worth. I dont think I need more than steps to keep bodyfat at bay. I am fortunate in that regard. LISS definitely seems to help with appetite and general well being feeling. I just wonder if I can get a little more CV healthy while not tapping the previously mentioned recovery impact. And honestly I wonder if a lot of guys avoid HIIT because it just sucks to do... me included.

I guess only 1 way to find out...

 

[qbkilla]

Can someone clarify what is the modern consensus on cardio for heart health? I feel like back in the day there was said to be a fat burning zone (zone 2), then I think zone 3 was said to be the key for the heart...and it was supposed to be steady state. Now Google just says basic zone 2 and sprinkle in HIIT? I feel like we used to have clear guidelines on what was ideal for fat loss than what was ideal for heart health and the recommendations for each (fat loss vs heart health) were different?

Has new research changed things? I may need to add in HIIT

 

[buck]

Can someone clarify what is the modern consensus on cardio for heart health? I feel like back in the day there was said to be a fat burning zone (zone 2), then I think zone 3 was said to be the key for the heart...and it was supposed to be steady state. Now Google just says basic zone 2 and sprinkle in HIIT? I feel like we used to have clear guidelines on what was ideal for fat loss than what was ideal for heart health and the recommendations for each (fat loss vs heart health) were different?

Has new research changed things? I may need to add in HIIT

Peter Atilla Dr. and many others recommend LISS(most of the time) and HIIT as both have their own pathways to health. Better metabolic health can help the heart long term And VO2 max can be a good indicator of cardio health. In the end what a person is willing to do for the rest of their lives is what will work best i think.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I'm a big HIIT fan, same as @d4ve, and probably because Justin was a big proponent. Even then, im not doing a tonnn of it right now.
I've actually increased the amount of cardio i'm doing. Roughly 5-6x per week 20-25 mins — and with that AND splitting my legs where i'm having 2 leg sessions per week, its a lot of volume to handle. I do admit that it keeps my cardiovascularly fit, and i just feel great after them. Right now, i'm doing maybe 2 HIIT sessions per week of that 5-6x. The other sessions arent quite LISS though, im at a moderate pace where i'm breathing hard and sweating by the end.

As far as intensifiers, again, usually a big fan of some RP and MR stuff thrown in there...but at the moment, mostly SS. My volume is a bit higher than ive taken it before. More into the 3-4 sets per exercise arena and im just really enjoying that. I just feel that i respond very well to higher volume right now. Every exercise i doo take to failure and when i hit true failure, i'll always do some partials if not a static hold. So the intensity is stilll up there.

 

[Denwor]

Man, the cardio debate is a total head trip. I’m with you on LISS—once you get some decent size on you, walking on a treadmill feels like trying to move a freight train. My heart rate barely budges unless I’m practically sprinting, which is the last thing I want to do at 240lbs+. But 10 minutes of HIIT every day as a superheavy? That’s absolutely mental. I can feel my joints screaming just thinking about it. Honestly though, for heart health, that short burst of high intensity is probably doing more for your longevity than an hour of mind-numbing walking ever could.

 

[Sectør]

Man, the cardio debate is a total head trip. I’m with you on LISS—once you get some decent size on you, walking on a treadmill feels like trying to move a freight train. My heart rate barely budges unless I’m practically sprinting, which is the last thing I want to do at 240lbs+. But 10 minutes of HIIT every day as a superheavy? That’s absolutely mental. I can feel my joints screaming just thinking about it. Honestly though, for heart health, that short burst of high intensity is probably doing more for your longevity than an hour of mind-numbing walking ever could.

I know a lot of people that confuse LISS cardio with steps.

They do some half ass effort walk on the treadmill where their heart rate doesn’t get anywhere near 110-120bpm, maybe doesn’t even break 100bpm, then they talk about all the cardio they did.

They did steps, not cardio

to train your heart, you need to get the heart rate up, and then sustain it. If the heart rate never increases much, you’re not really strengthening it in the way most people seem to think they do

 

[dantes]

I think what a lot of guys call HIT cardio is really moderate intensity. If you say you are doing 30 mins of HIT cardio and you are 250 lbs plus I have a very hard time believing it is true HIT cardio as this would be incredibly taxing. Anyway I digress.
I do intensifiers mainly on small body parts rarely on compound movements. I do HIT cardio 3x per week 1 minute per session on the assault bike.

 

[Liter O' Test]

i do treadmill steps at 8-12 incline.
I do 60 minutes in the a.m and go about my day then I go back to the treadmill and do the incline again for the remainder, i go for 12500-15000

what incline does everyone else do?

 

[jackedsanta]

I think what a lot of guys call HIT cardio is really moderate intensity. If you say you are doing 30 mins of HIT cardio and you are 250 lbs plus I have a very hard time believing it is true HIT cardio as this would be incredibly taxing. Anyway I digress.
I do intensifiers mainly on small body parts rarely on compound movements. I do HIT cardio 3x per week 1 minute per session on the assault bike.

On the HITT training - man I know that's right, I got my HITT training method from a recent video I saw of Dorian.
I do Assault bike/ERG ski
2min warmup
20 seconds ALL OUT
1min sustainable reduced effort
I'm up to 8 cycles of that
With another 2min cooldown

I'm on the verge of puking everywhere after every single HITT

 

[Siggy]

i do treadmill steps at 8-12 incline.
I do 60 minutes in the a.m and go about my day then I go back to the treadmill and do the incline again for the remainder, i go for 12500-15000

what incline does everyone else do?

I do an incline of 15, its rare to find a machine which goes higher than that unfortunately.

 

[Bobik]

i do treadmill steps at 8-12 incline.
I do 60 minutes in the a.m and go about my day then I go back to the treadmill and do the incline again for the remainder, i go for 12500-15000

what incline does everyone else do?

Training day - incline 15
Rest day - incline 20

but I still can't get my heart rate above 120.

 

[Josefein421]

Man, the cardio debate is a total head trip. I’m with you on LISS—once you get some decent size on you, walking on a treadmill feels like trying to move a freight train. My heart rate barely budges unless I’m practically sprinting, which is the last thing I want to do at 240lbs+. But 10 minutes of HIIT every day as a superheavy? That’s absolutely mental. I can feel my joints screaming just thinking about it. Honestly though, for heart health, that short burst of high intensity is probably doing more for your longevity than an hour of mind-numbing walking ever could.

I know a lot of people that confuse LISS cardio with steps.

They do some half ass effort walk on the treadmill where their heart rate doesn’t get anywhere near 110-120bpm, maybe doesn’t even break 100bpm, then they talk about all the cardio they did.

They did steps, not cardio

to train your heart, you need to get the heart rate up, and then sustain it. If the heart rate never increases much, you’re not really strengthening it in the way most people seem to think they do

I think people want to use steps as cardio the same way they want to eat as little protein and do as little work sets to as low an RPE as possible to grow. It is mind boggling. I personally could give a shit about steps or these sleep markers on my Apple Watch and such. Either I am busy and on my feet all day or I am not. Either I wake up rested and slept well or Im tired and slept like shit. I dont need a gadget to tell me if I am busy or rested. We did know these things 20 years ago without our gadgets.

And I remember years back Skip talking on IM about factoring in daily activity during diets or increasing it with walks at night versus cardio. So all these people touting steps as the be all end all barometer are just regurgitating the same old thing repackaged. But I guess that is all things bodybuilding.

I think what a lot of guys call HIT cardio is really moderate intensity. If you say you are doing 30 mins of HIT cardio and you are 250 lbs plus I have a very hard time believing it is true HIT cardio as this would be incredibly taxing. Anyway I digress.
I do intensifiers mainly on small body parts rarely on compound movements. I do HIT cardio 3x per week 1 minute per session on the assault bike.

i do treadmill steps at 8-12 incline.
I do 60 minutes in the a.m and go about my day then I go back to the treadmill and do the incline again for the remainder, i go for 12500-15000

what incline does everyone else do?

I am at 5.5 incline and 3.5 speed walking with no hands. I cant walk much faster without feeling like an Olympic power walker that might as well start jogging. The bike really doesnt do it for me. I dont think I am in that incredible shape either. I mean Im in decent CV shape. My echo was good. Not on a beta blocker. But I feel I should be working harder during cardio. Actually interestingly enough I feel when I do it outside walking the neighborhood with my dog and taking the hilly paths I get way more out of it though I swear im doing the same or less work than the treadmill.

Someone mentioned the step mill for HIIT. I did that a long time ago and it thrashed me. I think that is the ticket for me... 10min HIIT PWO on teh step mill twice a week.The assault bike also is very good but I dont currently have one. Perhaps I am just a good walker lol.

And I am guessing you didnt mean you only do 1 minute of cardio at a time?

 

[Josefein421]

Training day - incline 15
Rest day - incline 20

but I still can't get my heart rate above 120.

holy shit. I feel like I would be looking at the ceiling if I used those. I dont know if my machine even goes that high. How steep is that?!

 

[Bobik]

holy shit. I feel like I would be looking at the ceiling if I used those. I dont know if my machine even goes that high. How steep is that?!

quite a bit, but still manageable at 4.5-5 speed

 

[dantes]

I think people want to use steps as cardio the same way they want to eat as little protein and do as little work sets to as low an RPE as possible to grow. It is mind boggling. I personally could give a shit about steps or these sleep markers on my Apple Watch and such. Either I am busy and on my feet all day or I am not. Either I wake up rested and slept well or Im tired and slept like shit. I dont need a gadget to tell me if I am busy or rested. We did know these things 20 years ago without our gadgets.

And I remember years back Skip talking on IM about factoring in daily activity during diets or increasing it with walks at night versus cardio. So all these people touting steps as the be all end all barometer are just regurgitating the same old thing repackaged. But I guess that is all things bodybuilding.



I am at 5.5 incline and 3.5 speed walking with no hands. I cant walk much faster without feeling like an Olympic power walker that might as well start jogging. The bike really doesnt do it for me. I dont think I am in that incredible shape either. I mean Im in decent CV shape. My echo was good. Not on a beta blocker. But I feel I should be working harder during cardio. Actually interestingly enough I feel when I do it outside walking the neighborhood with my dog and taking the hilly paths I get way more out of it though I swear im doing the same or less work than the treadmill.

Someone mentioned the step mill for HIIT. I did that a long time ago and it thrashed me. I think that is the ticket for me... 10min HIIT PWO on teh step mill twice a week.The assault bike also is very good but I dont currently have one. Perhaps I am just a good walker lol.

And I am guessing you didnt mean you only do 1 minute of cardio at a time?

Yes. I only do 1 minute per session all out as hard as I can. Of course I also do low intensity cardio but true HIT where you are redlining on an assault bike is very difficult on the body and you shouldn’t be able to perform in that range for long anyway

 

[buck]

quite a bit, but still manageable at 4.5-5 speed

How much do you weigh?

 

[Bobik]

How much do you weigh?

120kg / 264lb

 

[Karađorđe]

120kg / 264lb

I’m jealous. Your resting HR must be low as hell. Any beta blockers?

 

[Bobik]

I’m jealous. Your resting HR must be low as hell. Any beta blockers?

I take 5mg Nebivolol daily… Unfortunately, my resting HR is higher due to taking Reta+GH, around 75, but without Reta it would be around 65.

 

[luki7788]

My average heart rate has been the same for last two years.

I average 15,000 steps a day all year round and follow an ultra-clean diet. I also take 2.5 mg of nebivolol daily. I used to take 5 mg, but a few months ago I reduced it to 2.5 mg. I think I could stop taking it completely, but I'm keeping the dose to a minimum for the other health benefits it can provide to a PED user.