Intensifiers and HIIT cardio... do you do them?

[dantes]

My average heart rate has been the same for last two years.

I average 15,000 steps a day all year round and follow an ultra-clean diet. I also take 2.5 mg of nebivolol daily. I used to take 5 mg, but a few months ago I reduced it to 2.5 mg. I think I could stop taking it completely, but I'm keeping the dose to a minimum for the other health benefits it can provide to a PED user.
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2.5 is probably better than 5mg if you don’t need the higher dose. I find a low dose of beta blocker doesn’t affect sleep apnea but a moderate dose does seem to.

 

[qbkilla]

I think people want to use steps as cardio the same way they want to eat as little protein and do as little work sets to as low an RPE as possible to grow. It is mind boggling. I personally could give a shit about steps or these sleep markers on my Apple Watch and such. Either I am busy and on my feet all day or I am not. Either I wake up rested and slept well or Im tired and slept like shit. I dont need a gadget to tell me if I am busy or rested. We did know these things 20 years ago without our gadgets.

And I remember years back Skip talking on IM about factoring in daily activity during diets or increasing it with walks at night versus cardio. So all these people touting steps as the be all end all barometer are just regurgitating the same old thing repackaged. But I guess that is all things bodybuilding.



I am at 5.5 incline and 3.5 speed walking with no hands. I cant walk much faster without feeling like an Olympic power walker that might as well start jogging. The bike really doesnt do it for me. I dont think I am in that incredible shape either. I mean Im in decent CV shape. My echo was good. Not on a beta blocker. But I feel I should be working harder during cardio. Actually interestingly enough I feel when I do it outside walking the neighborhood with my dog and taking the hilly paths I get way more out of it though I swear im doing the same or less work than the treadmill.

Someone mentioned the step mill for HIIT. I did that a long time ago and it thrashed me. I think that is the ticket for me... 10min HIIT PWO on teh step mill twice a week.The assault bike also is very good but I dont currently have one. Perhaps I am just a good walker lol.

And I am guessing you didnt mean you only do 1 minute of cardio at a time?

I agree with you on these silly gadgets..monitoring sleep, glucose, heart rate all day...it's too much...simple is best. Someone should be able to tell if they are sleeping well it's not rocket science...a machine to tell you the quality of sleep? We are in the twilight zone. But I have to disagree on steps. I used to think the same...laugh at dudes tracking steps. I did my cardio sessions..that was what I was taught. Decreae food or incense cardio to get lean. But I went through a weird period where I couldn't cut despite how low calories went and cardio uooed....strangest thing...because I've never not been able to drop lbs. Started tracking and I was getting 4k lol. Upped to 10k, faded out cardio...now I just use cardio as a tool to get my 10k and 12+ k on non lifting days...it's so much more flexible and imo more precise...makes staying lean even easier. Just my experience as someone who has done a 180 on step counting.

This post reminded me of something..for a period I got into calesthenics...alot of those dudes do burpees...I always laughed at burpees what a silly word. Then I tried doing them? Holy shit a few my heart was beating like crazy. Obviously they will cut into recovery...but imo as far as hiit/heart health...they are #1. I should get back into them...running..sprinting..strpmill till sweat is dripping...nothing has wiped me out like those prison burpees lol. You won't ever see a person who does them regularly be fat..I haven’t lol

 

[d4ve]

I agree with you on these silly gadgets..monitoring sleep, glucose, heart rate all day...it's too much...simple is best. Someone should be able to tell if they are sleeping well it's not rocket science...a machine to tell you the quality of sleep? We are in the twilight zone. But I have to disagree on steps. I used to think the same...laugh at dudes tracking steps. I did my cardio sessions..that was what I was taught. Decreae food or incense cardio to get lean. But I went through a weird period where I couldn't cut despite how low calories went and cardio uooed....strangest thing...because I've never not been able to drop lbs. Started tracking and I was getting 4k lol. Upped to 10k, faded out cardio...now I just use cardio as a tool to get my 10k and 12+ k on non lifting days...it's so much more flexible and imo more precise...makes staying lean even easier. Just my experience as someone who has done a 180 on step counting.

This post reminded me of something..for a period I got into calesthenics...alot of those dudes do burpees...I always laughed at burpees what a silly word. Then I tried doing them? Holy shit a few my heart was beating like crazy. Obviously they will cut into recovery...but imo as far as hiit/heart health...they are #1. I should get back into them...running..sprinting..strpmill till sweat is dripping...nothing has wiped me out like those prison burpees lol. You won't ever see a person who does them regularly be fat..I haven’t lol

Completely disagree on heart rate and sleep tracking. Not saying they’re end all, be all measures, but a lot of us get very far in bodybuilding and lots of other things by just white knuckling life and ignoring stress…until we can’t. People who lean towards bodybuilding as an outlet tend to also have a hard nose, get shit done mentality that can leave you in a ditch mentally and physically if unchecked.

I don’t love the trend in the other direction ie treating yourself like a fragile snowflake. But it’s been quite useful to look at my own HR and sleep data and then reflect on the last few days, weeks, etc and realize I need to cut some stressors back.

 

[Josefein421]

Oh burpees are AWFUL lol. Absolutely will scorch my heart rate. I didnt think of those for HIIT lol.

Not saying being more active during the day isnt good but I think people are definitely over emphasizing steps as an excuse to underemphasize cardio.

 

[Josefein421]

Completely disagree on heart rate and sleep tracking. Not saying they’re end all, be all measures, but a lot of us get very far in bodybuilding and lots of other things by just white knuckling life and ignoring stress…until we can’t. People who lean towards bodybuilding as an outlet tend to also have a hard nose, get shit done mentality that can leave you in a ditch mentally and physically if unchecked.

I don’t love the trend in the other direction ie treating yourself like a fragile snowflake. But it’s been quite useful to look at my own HR and sleep data and then reflect on the last few days, weeks, etc and realize I need to cut some stressors back.

There is no way I believe that if you didnt have a Fitbit/smartwatch to tell you all that data you wouldnt be able to tell me if you slept well, were rested, feeling run down, needed a deload, etc. I am not talking about feeling it and pushing on anyway. I am saying you have been training how many decades now and know your body more than a watch.

And the people that rely on that data are soft and looking for excuse. "I feel good this morning. Oh wait my HRV is up and my REM sleep was down?! Am I overtrained?! I have to reduce my volume, take a day off and make my RPE 6". They are the same type of people who in the words of Louie Simmons have $100 shoes and a 10 cent squat.

 

[luki7788]

I agree with you on these silly gadgets..monitoring sleep, glucose, heart rate all day...it's too much...simple is best. Someone should be able to tell if they are sleeping well it's not rocket science...a machine to tell you the quality of sleep? We are in the twilight zone. But I have to disagree on steps. I used to think the same...laugh at dudes tracking steps. I did my cardio sessions..that was what I was taught. Decreae food or incense cardio to get lean. But I went through a weird period where I couldn't cut despite how low calories went and cardio uooed....strangest thing...because I've never not been able to drop lbs. Started tracking and I was getting 4k lol. Upped to 10k, faded out cardio...now I just use cardio as a tool to get my 10k and 12+ k on non lifting days...it's so much more flexible and imo more precise...makes staying lean even easier. Just my experience as someone who has done a 180 on step counting.

This post reminded me of something..for a period I got into calesthenics...alot of those dudes do burpees...I always laughed at burpees what a silly word. Then I tried doing them? Holy shit a few my heart was beating like crazy. Obviously they will cut into recovery...but imo as far as hiit/heart health...they are #1. I should get back into them...running..sprinting..strpmill till sweat is dripping...nothing has wiped me out like those prison burpees lol. You won't ever see a person who does them regularly be fat..I haven’t lol

Completely disagree on heart rate and sleep tracking. Not saying they’re end all, be all measures, but a lot of us get very far in bodybuilding and lots of other things by just white knuckling life and ignoring stress…until we can’t. People who lean towards bodybuilding as an outlet tend to also have a hard nose, get shit done mentality that can leave you in a ditch mentally and physically if unchecked.

I don’t love the trend in the other direction ie treating yourself like a fragile snowflake. But it’s been quite useful to look at my own HR and sleep data and then reflect on the last few days, weeks, etc and realize I need to cut some stressors back.

There is no way I believe that if you didnt have a Fitbit/smartwatch to tell you all that data you wouldnt be able to tell me if you slept well, were rested, feeling run down, needed a deload, etc. I am not talking about feeling it and pushing on anyway. I am saying you have been training how many decades now and know your body more than a watch.

And the people that rely on that data are soft and looking for excuse. "I feel good this morning. Oh wait my HRV is up and my REM sleep was down?! Am I overtrained?! I have to reduce my volume, take a day off and make my RPE 6". They are the same type of people who in the words of Louie Simmons have $100 shoes and a 10 cent squat.

I completely agree with Dave.
I used to be very negative about sleep tracking with a watch and all that. But honestly, I’ve been doing it regularly for almost two years now, and it matches how I feel pretty well.
When I feel like I had a really bad night, the watch data is usually bad too: low REM, low deep sleep, lots of wake-ups, stuff like that. When I feel like I had a great night, the watch usually shows that as well.
Of course it’s not 100% accurate and it won’t match everything perfectly, but a lot of the time it’s pretty close.

And I always say this: if you don’t believe in new tech and you don’t want to use it, then why do you use GPS when you drive? Just take a paper map and go back to that...

 

[Josefein421]

I completely agree with Dave.
I used to be very negative about sleep tracking with a watch and all that. But honestly, I’ve been doing it regularly for almost two years now, and it matches how I feel pretty well.
When I feel like I had a really bad night, the watch data is usually bad too: low REM, low deep sleep, lots of wake-ups, stuff like that. When I feel like I had a great night, the watch usually shows that as well.
Of course it’s not 100% accurate and it won’t match everything perfectly, but a lot of the time it’s pretty close.

And I always say this: if you don’t believe in new tech and you don’t want to use it, then why do you use GPS when you drive? Just take a paper map and go back to that...

I am not saying it isnt accurate. But you said it matches how you feel. I am saying you dont need it to tell you how you feel. I believe some folks rely on it more than how they actually feel. And I think so folks tend to be the science based ones that do the minimal volume, not to failure, eat 1g/lb of protein and weigh less than 200lbs.

I use a GPS because I am terrible with directions and would get lost. The tech helps what I dont know. I dont have that problem with my sleep or energy. I dont need tech to tell me what I already know.

EDIT: Btu whatever works for people. Bodybuilders are so OCD if it gives someone peace of mind matching the data to the feeling and adjusting their plan accordingly then I'm glad the tech is there for them to use.

 

[luki7788]

I am not saying it isnt accurate. But you said it matches how you feel. I am saying you dont need it to tell you how you feel. I believe some folks rely on it more than how they actually feel. And I think so folks tend to be the science based ones that do the minimal volume, not to failure, eat 1g/lb of protein and weigh less than 200lbs.

I use a GPS because I am terrible with directions and would get lost. The tech helps what I dont know. I dont have that problem with my sleep or energy. I dont need tech to tell me what I already know.

EDIT: Btu whatever works for people. Bodybuilders are so OCD if it gives someone peace of mind matching the data to the feeling and adjusting their plan accordingly then I'm glad the tech is there for them to use.

I understand you perfectly, bro. But just like we don’t need calorie-tracking apps, we also don’t really need a lot of other things that technology gives us today to get results. We use them mostly for convenience, curiosity, and that’s it.

I don’t really understand why we should reject tools and possibilities that technology gives us. At least for me, my approach is simple: if I’m not learning new things, I’m not moving forward. I’m not even standing still, I’m actually moving backward, because the whole world keeps moving forward.

I like these kinds of gadgets. You don’t have to like them, you don’t have to use them. If someone doesn’t like them, that’s totally fine. But I wouldn’t say they are bad or completely unnecessary.

 

[buck]

I completely agree with Dave.
I used to be very negative about sleep tracking with a watch and all that. But honestly, I’ve been doing it regularly for almost two years now, and it matches how I feel pretty well.
When I feel like I had a really bad night, the watch data is usually bad too: low REM, low deep sleep, lots of wake-ups, stuff like that. When I feel like I had a great night, the watch usually shows that as well.
Of course it’s not 100% accurate and it won’t match everything perfectly, but a lot of the time it’s pretty close.

And I always say this: if you don’t believe in new tech and you don’t want to use it, then why do you use GPS when you drive? Just take a paper map and go back to that...

How do you use that data to improve sleep quality?

 

[luki7788]

How do you use that data to improve sleep quality?

I don’t use it to improve my sleep. I use it only to monitor and check if the data matches how I actually feel. That’s it.

 

[qbkilla]

Completely disagree on heart rate and sleep tracking. Not saying they’re end all, be all measures, but a lot of us get very far in bodybuilding and lots of other things by just white knuckling life and ignoring stress…until we can’t. People who lean towards bodybuilding as an outlet tend to also have a hard nose, get shit done mentality that can leave you in a ditch mentally and physically if unchecked.

I don’t love the trend in the other direction ie treating yourself like a fragile snowflake. But it’s been quite useful to look at my own HR and sleep data and then reflect on the last few days, weeks, etc and realize I need to cut some stressors back.

Definitely respect your view point, and at your size I guess things are different. I guess everyone has a certain tolerance for just how ocd we are willing to be. I know me personally, I do best when I keep things simple...as I tend to go over the deep end when I try and "optimize " and micromanage every little thing I can to reach my goals. For me it's typically training. I guess everyone has to find what works for them...but would you agree that at some point...even the best of us can get to a point where we need to greatly simplify things as sometimes we cause more stress trying to be perfect and it actually starts to hinder progress?

I do know John jewett had a ppst not long ago where he basically said guys are taking too much data. But again, I guess it's very individual how much "nerding out" we each can do before it becomes a detriment.

 

[luki7788]

Definitely respect your view point, and at your size I guess things are different. I guess everyone has a certain tolerance for just how ocd we are willing to be. I know me personally, I do best when I keep things simple...as I tend to go over the deep end when I try and "optimize " and micromanage every little thing I can to reach my goals. For me it's typically training. I guess everyone has to find what works for them...but would you agree that at some point...even the best of us can get to a point where we need to greatly simplify things as sometimes we cause more stress trying to be perfect and it actually starts to hinder progress?

I do know John jewett had a ppst not long ago where he basically said guys are taking too much data. But again, I guess it's very individual how much "nerding out" we each can do before it becomes a detriment.

Seriously, bro. You say you overanalyze things, and everyone knows that. We all know your forum posts. Overanalyzing is basically your trademark. That’s why it surprises me that you’re even asking questions like this.

The golden mean, does that ring a bell? I think it does. You just don’t apply it yourself, even though in theory you say you believe in it.

 

[qbkilla]

Seriously, bro. You say you overanalyze things, and everyone knows that. We all know your forum posts. Overanalyzing is basically your trademark. That’s why it surprises me that you’re even asking questions like this.

The golden mean, does that ring a bell? I think it does. You just don’t apply it yourself, even though in theory you say you believe in it.

I looked up golden mean...yes I do agree with it. This is what I was saying...about both myself and others. I know I catch myself being too extreme with being ocd about minor details that do not matter. For me..I do not think I would benefit from any more gadgets than the 2 I use now...step tracking and calorie tracking. I concede that advanced guys like you...if you say tracking sleep, heart rate, glucose benefit you...Who I am to disagree? What you are doing obviously works for you health/physique. But for the average AAS user? I do not think they need these things...id Wager the average AAS user is not advanced enough to need this type of data...the focus for most should be the basics of hard consistent training, diet, movement...and just getting 7 hours sleep.I am not sure where we disagree?

 

[luki7788]

I looked up golden mean...yes I do agree with it. This is what I was saying...about both myself and others. I know I catch myself being too extreme with being ocd about minor details that do not matter. For me..I do not think I would benefit from any more gadgets than the 2 I use now...step tracking and calorie tracking. I concede that advanced guys like you...if you say tracking sleep, heart rate, glucose benefit you...Who I am to disagree? What you are doing obviously works for you health/physique. But for the average AAS user? I do not think they need these things...id Wager the average AAS user is not advanced enough to need this type of data...the focus for most should be the basics of hard consistent training, diet, movement...and just getting 7 hours sleep.I am not sure where we disagree?

With all due respect, that’s the most idiotic explanation I keep hearing all the time. Does it make sense for an average person? Maybe.

But the point is that most of those “average” people want to become something more than average.
It’s the same thing with becoming a pro. You want to be a pro athlete, right? But what, you want to start acting like one and doing what a pro does only after you become one? That will never happen. You have to do it earlier, before you get that status.

Do you get what I mean?

 

[qbkilla]

With all due respect, that’s the most idiotic explanation I keep hearing all the time. Does it make sense for an average person? Maybe.

But the point is that most of those “average” people want to become something more than average.
It’s the same thing with becoming a pro. You want to be a pro athlete, right? But what, you want to start acting like one and doing what a pro does only after you become one? That will never happen. You have to do it earlier, before you get that status.

Do you get what I mean?

I get your point.i think..im being totally honest and respectful...I do not agree . If we use your athlete example...take a high school kid with good genetics who has potential to be nfl player. Say he came to a football trainer/coach and said "what do I need to do to make it to the nfl." The coach should in my opinion, give this kid a limited number of things to focus on....let's call these "big rocks". Proper nutrition, protein, training either sport specific or to add lbm, injury prevention. I do not believe monitoring his sleep or heart rate variability or glucose would benefit him and I would call them "small rocks." Now down the road when he is tom Brady and all the big rocks have been dialed in for years...and he is 40 trying to get any advantage to keep up with guys half his age? Yes...things like weekly massage, sleep monitor, multiple supplements, treating inflammation...could give him that edge. Thst is just my opinion man.

 

[luki7788]

Bro, I’m not trying to convince you of anything, because talking to you, as you can see in other threads, is pointless anyway. You will always try to prove that you’re right at all costs, or rather justify the things you’re not doing - don’t take me wrong that’s just this looks like from third person perspective - personally I don’t have anything against you

And honestly, what are you even talking about? Who are you comparing here? Man, how long have you been training? 15 years? 20 years? And you still see yourself as a beginner?
Basically anyone there don’t even know what level you’re really at. And if you think you are still on beginner level that’s maybe because you’ve never done anything properly for long enough, never stuck to anything consistently. No offense, but that’s my opinion based on what you write here.

I don’t think there’s any point in continuing this discussion because I really don’t want proved anything for anyone just say my own opinion and remember I always talk about experiences guys not beginners.

 

[qbkilla]

Bro, I’m not trying to convince you of anything, because talking to you, as you can see in other threads, is pointless anyway. You will always try to prove that you’re right at all costs, or rather justify the things you’re not doing - don’t take me wrong that’s just this looks like from third person perspective - personally I don’t have anything against you

And honestly, what are you even talking about? Who are you comparing here? Man, how long have you been training? 15 years? 20 years? And you still see yourself as a beginner?
Basically anyone there don’t even know what level you’re really at. And if you think you are still on beginner level that’s maybe because you’ve never done anything properly for long enough, never stuck to anything consistently. No offense, but that’s my opinion based on what you write here.

I don’t think there’s any point in continuing this discussion because I really don’t want proved anything for anyone just say my own opinion and remember I always talk about experiences guys not beginners.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the gadgets. And no offense taken , I have made many mistakes over time when trying to achieve my goals...but always looking to improve my mindset and physique. Always enjoy discussing bodybuilding and health..even if we may not fully understand the other person's view on a given subject. Much respect as always!

 

[Chinaski]

Maybe my way of thinking is stupid, but when I train 4x a week and am using compound lifts at an intensity where my HR is hitting 150 plus bpm, how would an extra 10 min of HIIT a couple times a week add much benefit? I feel like my heart is getting the cardiovascular benefits already of high intensity from my lifting, and adding HIIT cardio only makes recovery worse possibly. I prefer cardio 30 mins a day with HR in Zone 2 plus steps over 12k. I agree with @qbkilla on monitoring steps, I never got as lean as I did tracking steps, and this Christmas I ate like shit for a month with all the family activites and travelling, added almost 4kg of weight, and was able to drop it in 2 weeks after going back to normal program. I sit behind a computer for work though, if someone has an active job which is labor intensive or something like a nursing where you are on your feet 12 hours shifts, then yes, why count steps? You're probably already far above the average American.

I do want to experiment with sleep tracking though. I've only used my Apple watch which doesn't seem that accurate. Anyone consistently using a decent app for this?

 

[Splitzz]

HIIT Cardio never just Liss every day.
Intensifiers I try to keep to when I’m in a calorie surplus and recovery is good.
Love all styles, rest pause, drop sets, cluster sets etc.. they all have there place

 

[Dens228]

I get your point.i think..im being totally honest and respectful...I do not agree . If we use your athlete example...take a high school kid with good genetics who has potential to be nfl player. Say he came to a football trainer/coach and said "what do I need to do to make it to the nfl." The coach should in my opinion, give this kid a limited number of things to focus on....let's call these "big rocks". Proper nutrition, protein, training either sport specific or to add lbm, injury prevention. I do not believe monitoring his sleep or heart rate variability or glucose would benefit him and I would call them "small rocks." Now down the road when he is tom Brady and all the big rocks have been dialed in for years...and he is 40 trying to get any advantage to keep up with guys half his age? Yes...things like weekly massage, sleep monitor, multiple supplements, treating inflammation...could give him that edge. Thst is just my opinion man.

Having played high level football but falling short of the NFL I can tell you your analogy is way off. Unless you are the ultimate elite athlete, which are very few and far between, you can't take that approach focusing on the big basics to become the 1%. You're either all in on EVERYTHING it takes or you are out. I've also coached for many years. While the basics and fundamentals are important, it's the little things that make a difference. Everyone does the basics.