Interactions, Normal estradiol, high estrone wtf?

[Zarati]

What does estrone do ?
It's almost double the range.

A friend switched to subQ. Same weekly dose. His Total T is the same, estradiol in normal range but his estrone double the range and his Free Testosterone has dropped significantly doing subQ. Almost seems like estrone is blocking the free T?

 

[luki7788]

to be honest I have no idea but it's interesting
but I doubt that anyone would be able to answer this question because hardly anyone checks the level of estrone

 

[Type-IIx]

Was the assay used the same as before? Is this just TRT; if not, compounds/dosages?

Estrone (E1) is a weak estrogen (and estradiol is a very potent estrogen), so aromatization principally to E1 rather than E2 can be viewed as advantageous. It's possible that the Aromatase isozymes present chiefly where he is injecting and the ester depot forming principally metabolizes to E1 rather than E2. There is likely reduced hormone reaching systemic circulation (where there may then be a prevalence of Aromatase isozymes that yield E2) as would occur with IM administration. This is my hypothesis, unless something else can explain it (different assay; different hormone).

However, there seem to be many problems with subq admin. and I advocate against it. This (aromatization to E1) is not the cause of reduced free T. If anything, reduced free T is likely a consequence of reduced bioavailability with subq vs. IM.

 

[Zarati]

Any ideas?

 

[phoenix2]

Estrone can be maden through two enzymatic pathways.
One is the direct aromatization of androstenedione (a weak androgen one step before testosterone) and the second is the conversion of estradiol into estrone, through 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, which reduce the 17 beta OH of E2 into a keto group ("17-one"). Probably in this case your friend have an high expression of this enzyme in his subcutaneous fat.
Lastly, estrone circulates in the blood mainly as estrone sulfate, which is more soluble and easily excreted. In the gut some bacterials have an enzyme called sulfatase, which break the bond between estrone and the sulfate, so estrone comes back in bloodstream.

 

[Type-IIx]

Estrone can be maden through two enzymatic pathways.
One is the direct aromatization of androstenedione (a weak androgen one step before testosterone) and the second is the conversion of estradiol into estrone, through 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, which reduce the 17 beta OH of E2 into a keto group ("17-one"). Probably in this case your friend have an high expression of this enzyme in his subcutaneous fat.
Lastly, estrone circulates in the blood mainly as estrone sulfate, which is more soluble and easily excreted. In the gut some bacterials have an enzyme called sulfatase, which break the bond between estrone and the sulfate, so estrone comes back in bloodstream.

This is right.

I'm surprised by the primacy of 17β-HSD (in this case, 17β-HSD2) enzymes in controlling a lot of the inter-individual differences in metabolism of androgens (generally).

 

[Zarati]

Estrone can be maden through two enzymatic pathways.
One is the direct aromatization of androstenedione (a weak androgen one step before testosterone) and the second is the conversion of estradiol into estrone, through 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, which reduce the 17 beta OH of E2 into a keto group ("17-one"). Probably in this case your friend have an high expression of this enzyme in his subcutaneous fat.
Lastly, estrone circulates in the blood mainly as estrone sulfate, which is more soluble and easily excreted. In the gut some bacterials have an enzyme called sulfatase, which break the bond between estrone and the sulfate, so estrone comes back in bloodstream.

Are there side effects?
Does it lower free T

 

[phoenix2]

Are there side effects?
Does it lower free T

The only way it COULD decrease free test is through stimulation of SHBG synthesis. But i don't think is that the case.

 

[Type-IIx]

The only way it COULD decrease free test is through stimulation of SHBG synthesis. But i don't think is that the case.

All the data I've seen on PK/PD for s.c. T is with the use of patented auto-injector technology (e.g., XYOSTED) designed for subcutaneous use. I suspect s.c. admin. of oil-based preparations intended for intramuscular use is likely to lead to lower nadir free T vs. intramuscular admin. (reduced absorption; bioavailability).

 

[phoenix2]

All the data I've seen on PK/PD for s.c. T is with the use of patented auto-injector technology (e.g., XYOSTED) designed for subcutaneous use. I suspect s.c. admin. of oil-based preparations intended for intramuscular use is likely to lead to lower nadir free T vs. intramuscular admin. (reduced absorption; bioavailability).

And probably more readily available for aromatization due to higher aromatase expression in subcutaneous fat.

 

[qwerty_lifter]

Would the type of blood test (sensitivity/accuracy) & gear used cause miscalculation ex. Deca, tren

 

[Zarati]

Would the type of blood test (sensitivity/accuracy) & gear used cause miscalculation ex. Deca, tren

That was only TRT, 50mg x2 a week

 

[qwerty_lifter]

That was only TRT, 50mg x2 a week

I'm out!
(sorry, no help )