Interesting Melatonin Post….

[Ranchhand]

Benadryl is a very dirty med. It is an acetylcholine inhibitor, so overuse can make you fat, slow, and dumb.

I had no idea, thanks Type-IIx

 

[Ranchhand]

the thing with this sleep stuff bud is that you dont really want to knock yourself out.
alcahol for example fucks up jow you go through sleep cycles so while you might be out, it isnt really the rest you need. be groggy can be a sing of poor sleep quality.

i did all the melatonin stuff years ago and i used to have serious issues with sleep.
i think there are probably good reasons not to use all that stuff ed.

Thanks for the info LK3, what I'm getting out of this thread is that I should lay off the "sleep aids" and get back to a natural rhythm. I know the number one thing I need to do is move to a lower elevation to improve my sleep. Unfortunately I can't just freely do that right now, I own my house and need to improve my financial state to afford to relocate. Since moving to 10,650ft exactly 10 years ago I've developed sleep issues including sleep Apnea. Plus, where I live tourism has taken over, I'm ready for standard day to day living and conveniences' along with I want to back in a level headed civilization.

 

[M@NU]

Ah, yes. RhGH & clen for visceral fat loss; ARBs/ACE inhibitors (only when indicated, not as a prophylactic; lifestyle is the appropriate prophylactic here) for hypertension; and whatever front-line medications to stave off Alzheimer's progression are in popular use medically for those with familial history of Alzheimer's.

well, clen for sure is more effective in that regard - but do we disregard potential sides in this discussion?
or what you say that there is a strategy do use clen in a safe matter?

 

[nothuman]

Some places say to only take 300mcg to replace natural melatonin production. Others say to use super high doses.

A lot of conflicting information to dig through.

 

[LK3]

Thanks for the info LK3, what I'm getting out of this thread is that I should lay off the "sleep aids" and get back to a natural rhythm. I know the number one thing I need to do is move to a lower elevation to improve my sleep. Unfortunately I can't just freely do that right now, I own my house and need to improve my financial state to afford to relocate. Since moving to 10,650ft exactly 10 years ago I've developed sleep issues including sleep Apnea. Plus, where I live tourism has taken over, I'm ready for standard day to day living and conveniences' along with I want to back in a level headed civilization.

stress is a mofo bro. figuring out ways to help with that can also help with sleep.
the thing with well all drugs or whatever is to understand what they do and what other stuff they impact.
as much as i hate to cliche the reason to use weed is becase it doesnt fuck with head chems or really anything and ever more its good for you. keep in mind that the same govt that holds it in sched 1 also has a patent on the neuroprotective aspect of cannabinoids. learing how to use it correctly is on you. societies genarl concept of this one is about as ackbsswards as it gets.

mg is important fors like torrate and epsom slat can get you high enough doses to be relaxing.
zinc is good before bed.
get rid of all light sorces too. turn clocks face down cover those annoying lights on things and get it good n dark.
theanin can help in some cases and has a lot of other good stuff
taurine can also be a good sleep stack addition.
carbs make me sleep great too.
good luck bro!

 

[LK3]

Some places say to only take 300mcg to replace natural melatonin production. Others say to use super high doses.

A lot of conflicting information to dig through.

so lets say you do that. replacing natty production kinda sounds liek shutting off no?
maybe this can effect pituitary function?
now maybe im remembering the reasons why not to take mel?
lol idk its been along time since i thought about it. but i think this migh be why doing a big dose reset and not doing ed might be better. then doing ed. particularly for helath.

 

[nothuman]

so lets say you do that. replacing natty production kinda sounds liek shutting off no?
maybe this can effect pituitary function?
now maybe im remembering the reasons why not to take mel?
lol idk its been along time since i thought about it. but i think this migh be why doing a big dose reset and not doing ed might be better. then doing ed. particularly for helath.

The good news is that natural melatonin production returns once you stop taking it, regardless of how much we take and for how long. Our natural levels decline around age 30, so there is benefit in supplementing it for anti aging (I take 300mcg). Our bodies normally produce 100-200mcg when functioning optimally.

Super high doses are being touted as anti cancer, pro immune health, better insulin sensitivity, and pro fat loss. However depending on who you listen to, can also have drawbacks (like the Victor Black post that was shared above in the thread).

I am debating if I should go beyond my 300mcg dose to venture into this territory. There is a lot to unpack.

 

[b-boy]

It's funny all the people that worried about metformin "killing their gains" but don't bat an eye at high dosing melatonin

 

[BALDNAZI]

I never got anything from melatonin but I used trivial doses. That Dante post got me seriously thinking though. I picked some up and will experiment with 10mg to start and build up slowly. It’s a safe compound to play with so I’ll give it a try. Visceral fat reduction? Not expecting much but I’m in

I have a pretty hard time sleeping as is. I do all the right things pre bed, dark ass room, soft rain sound in background etc and I can fall sleep well enough but if I slip up and my mind starts racing it’s over after I get up to pee. Very hard to fall back asleep if I wake up. Think of the Beautiful Mind gif with all the #s and calculations flying around, that’s me lol.

Not on GH yet this year but that’s always helped and Ashwaganda gummies or CBD also works to some degree. But let’s see what a higher dose of Melatonin will do, let you know

 

[Type-IIx]

well, clen for sure is more effective in that regard - but do we disregard potential sides in this discussion?
or what you say that there is a strategy do use clen in a safe matter?

Check out Clenbuterol focus: Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols
Discussed therein is the actual prevalence of reported side effects (if severe, subjects withdrew from trials).

You may also be interested in The Definitive Thyroid Hormone Thread (T3, T4, some implications for rhGH)

I'll leave it up to you to assess the realities of the tradeoffs presented by clen vs. T3/T4.

Perhaps what's needed to really get peoples' attention about the perils of thyroid hormones for bodybuilding is focusing on the effects on protein turnover. Most noteworthy, 75 µg of exogenous T3 increases RMR by 15% and 100 µg exogenous T3 for 2 weeks reduced type IIA fiber CSA (this reflects hypertrophied muscle) in line with this increased RMR (though there may be some compensatory mechanism that antagonizes the protein catabolic effects over longer periods, staving off further muscle loss). That, to most, should be a stark message about the utility of thyroid hormones for recomping, not to mind bulking.

 

[TheRealAphextwin]

I’m a huge fan of Dante but I just don’t see it doing much even at higher doses. Who knows maybe he’s on to something but who knows. I’d love to hear how others respond.

 

[TheRealAphextwin]

How much are you guys planning to use? I find this interesting.

 

[Brock456]

Did anyone end up trying this? I noticed the post is deleted.

I went as high as 40mg/night and definitely lost some weight but it was at the same time I had Covid so can’t really say which one it was….

 

[totalrecomp]

I take 10mg of Melatonin in hopes that it is helping with sleep very night, with Benadryl, I still don't sleep well. Just started using my CPAP again after years of refusing to, it's helping but not solving my sleep issues completely. I know a large part of my sleep issues are from living at 10,650ft, work stress and financial stress.


Didn't know that Benadryl was viewed as a dirty med and interferes with REM sleep? I just know it does help knock me out, but I can wake up groggy at times, not fully functional. It takes me a long while to get motivated and moving in the morning, on average an hour an half to two hours.

Long-term use of diphenhydramine

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Increased risk of dementia with chronic use of anti-cholinergic drugs. At minimum if you need to keep taking it I would look into something to off-set this: Acetyl-L-Carnitine, lecithin, Hup-A, Alpha GPC, Citi-choline, L-choline.......not all of them of course. I use Focus XT by Serious Nutrition Solutions as it has a great stack of foundational nootropics with acetylcholine production well covered.

 

[totalrecomp]

the thing with this sleep stuff bud is that you dont really want to knock yourself out.
alcahol for example fucks up jow you go through sleep cycles so while you might be out, it isnt really the rest you need. be groggy can be a sing of poor sleep quality.

i did all the melatonin stuff years ago and i used to have serious issues with sleep.
i think there are probably good reasons not to use all that stuff ed.

I agree, in an ideal world. If one has been suffering with 2-3 hours a night for extended periods of time getting 6 lower quality sleep hours, IMO and IME, is the better of the two shitty options. I think you only do this while NEVER GIVING UP on finding a better long-term healthy solution to the problem.

To everyone waking up groggy try taking the melatonin earlier in the night. If doing 30 mins or immediately prior try a few hours before bed. The body increases production as the sun sets. You can also try taking 2mg at dusk and 1mg at bedtime vs 3mg all at bedtime(or whatever dose you want split up.) I even used a 250mcg sublingual in the middle of the night when staying asleep was my issue.

In all my years of supplement sales melatonin is one of the trickiest to nail down dosing and timing for people. It also suffers from improper expectations as its not a benzo that just nocks you out like some in the public expect from anything labeled "sleep" it more allows you to fall asleep.

I think of melatonin like proviron, it can be useful when added to a stack of other nutraceuticals and proper sleep hygiene. Most would be disappointed if proviron was used in a vacuum and melatonin is no different IME.

 

[totalrecomp]

If you miss your sleep window with melatonin at regular doses - it often causes insomnia. This has always been an issue for me. The only product with Melatonin in it that worked wonders for me was Mike Arnold's Somatazine which was paired with Mk-677 and Magnesium Glycinate along with a few other items.

ALRI Lean Dreams was excellent and my favorite sleep product ever! It was like going to a virtual reality world every night in my dreams. I literally looked forward to what the show was going to be each night. I so miss that product. A couple have come close but that was the best IME.

It had melatonin amongst other things like zizyphus/jujube extract which I LOVE.

SNS Sleep Assist XT and Hi-Tech's Sleep RX both have it and are close to lean dreams but only 75% as effective.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Thanks for the info LK3, what I'm getting out of this thread is that I should lay off the "sleep aids" and get back to a natural rhythm. I know the number one thing I need to do is move to a lower elevation to improve my sleep. Unfortunately I can't just freely do that right now, I own my house and need to improve my financial state to afford to relocate. Since moving to 10,650ft exactly 10 years ago I've developed sleep issues including sleep Apnea. Plus, where I live tourism has taken over, I'm ready for standard day to day living and conveniences' along with I want to back in a level headed civilization.

Many people have trouble sleeping at altitude. It's always been my understanding that since a person at higher altitude requires increased breathing (respiration) to maintain adequate blood oxygen levels, this increased respiration throws off your normal sleep patterns. It's not unusual for climbers at higher altitudes to have major sleep disruptions. I've noticed it myself. Normally it subsides after acclimatization but if it does not, could indicate some other brain or cardiorespiratory malfunction or brain respiration connection. And if that's the case, the outlook isn't exactly ideal. You could be creating problems for yourself down the road.

I'd recommend you get down below 2,400m and do your sleeping there, brother. Even if it means you have to return to 3,000m+ to work, live, etc daily. Because insomnia is not healthy, not if it's primary or secondary to something else and the tertiary condition resulting from the insomnia (eg, psychosis, somnolence, cardiovascular).

 

[Ranchhand]

Many people have trouble sleeping at altitude. It's always been my understanding that since a person at higher altitude requires increased breathing (respiration) to maintain adequate blood oxygen levels, this increased respiration throws off your normal sleep patterns. It's not unusual for climbers at higher altitudes to have major sleep disruptions. I've noticed it myself. Normally it subsides after acclimatization but if it does not, could indicate some other brain or cardiorespiratory malfunction or brain respiration connection. And if that's the case, the outlook isn't exactly ideal. You could be creating problems for yourself down the road.

I'd recommend you get down below 2,400m and do your sleeping there, brother. Even if it means you have to return to 3,000m+ to work, live, etc daily. Because insomnia is not healthy, not if it's primary or secondary to something else and the tertiary condition resulting from the insomnia (eg, psychosis, somnolence, cardiovascular).

Yes, I agree with you. I'm working on moving to a lower elevation but not so easy. Have to get the right job offer first, be setup to sell my place and be ready to make the move as I drag all my possessions with me. I did get a new job about 2 months ago that would bring me close to cutting my elevation to half. Been following the housing market but with housing being inflated right now I'm currently priced out. Just waiting my time to make things work to live at a lower elevation for my wellbeing and health.

 

[Ranchhand]

Long-term use of diphenhydramine

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Increased risk of dementia with chronic use of anti-cholinergic drugs. At minimum if you need to keep taking it I would look into something to off-set this: Acetyl-L-Carnitine, lecithin, Hup-A, Alpha GPC, Citi-choline, L-choline.......not all of them of course. I use Focus XT by Serious Nutrition Solutions as it has a great stack of foundational nootropics with acetylcholine production well covered.

Thanks for the share totalrecomp, I will look into Focus XT

 

[specter]

ALRI Lean Dreams was excellent and my favorite sleep product ever! It was like going to a virtual reality world every night in my dreams. I literally looked forward to what the show was going to be each night. I so miss that product. A couple have come close but that was the best IME.

It had melatonin amongst other things like zizyphus/jujube extract which I LOVE.

SNS Sleep Assist XT and Hi-Tech's Sleep RX both have it and are close to lean dreams but only 75% as effective.

Lean Dreams was the shit, also comatose and pornstar was fuckin weird