Interesting perspective on the benefits of DECA

[epoxy]

what was the lowest effective dosage of Deca you used that stopped shoulder pain?

i cruised on 300mg the whole time. worked like a charm.

 

[juggy38]

I just tried three weeks of deca 600mg/ test 150mg for shits and giggles

Mood in the shitter. Also on Effexor (been on/off for years)

Going to drop deca, order some mast. bump test to 300mg and when mood is restored I’m going to attempt this

Test 200
Mast 200
Deca 600


I believe the lack of DHt is the problem.
I can’t use test as an anchor, I don’t feel well due to high estrogen conversion

 

[LK3]

dude if you are using deca dece and not npp at three weeks in the 600 mgs should really just start hitting. even if you just stopped the admin for the next 2 weeks easy you are gona be in full swing.
while you will notice a lil form week one to two, really 3 is where its really gona come on at your dose. just food for though. see how you feel. just food for thought as my dick stopped working typing deca 600mg. lol

 

[juggy38]

dude if you are using deca dece and not npp at three weeks in the 600 mgs should really just start hitting. even if you just stopped the admin for the next 2 weeks easy you are gona be in full swing.
while you will notice a lil form week one to two, really 3 is where its really gona come on at your dose. just food for though. see how you feel. just food for thought as my dick stopped working typing deca 600mg. lol

Ok, I’ll give it another few weeks, I’ll bump test to 250 see if that helps the blues feeling.

If I had a little mast prop that would help. Mast is probably the strongest “euphoric AAS” for me. Well, not euphoria but best “mood boositing”

 

[LK3]

uhh yeah, lol usually make me more towards manic.
i have learn to respect that part!
150 is low with other gear.

good luck bro!

 

[Cracker69]

I used to love Deca in my 30's, but after a good 7 month run at 600mg with 750mg of test, it finally put my dick in the dirt, and now in my 40's, I can't run more than 10 to 20mg per day without it giving me cystic acne and sexual sides. On the other hand, I can run trest ace and tren ace at low doses(10 to 25mg)and NPP at 700mg per week no problem. Shit, I even had to switch from test enanthate to cyp, because all enanthates were giving PIP and swelling. Getting old sucks.lol. But it seems the older I get, the better I do sticking with more frequent pinning and faster acting gear for the most part. I did notice that with deca, although the conversion to the less androgenic dihydronandrolone caused dick problems, it also preserved my hair, because as soon as I got off of it, I did have a bit more shedding than usual in the front. But man, deca always made me thick and strong as fuck. 600mg per week was the sweet spot.

 

[astral_essence]

That has varied quite a bit, for reasons I can't quite explain. I do have higher SHBG levels than most, which would explain why I need higher free test levels than most to feel good.

In July, at trough injecting 100mg twice per week, by immunoassay my total testosterone was 846, high out of range from 250-827 ng/dL. My SHBG was 51, high over the range of 10-50 nmol/L. My free testosterone was 86.6 in the normal range from 46.0-224.0 pg/mL. And I felt terrible.

In August, injecting 100mg every third day, by immunoassay my total testosterone was 1565, high out of range from 250-827 ng/dL. My SHBG was 47, in the normal range from 10-50 nmol/L. My free testosterone was 211.8, still within the normal range from 46.0-224.0 pg/mL. And I felt terrible.

In late October, in blood tests at my urologists office, at 200mg per week my total testosterone was 1211, high out of range from 125-800 ng/dL. My SHBG was 57.8, still high out of range, no free testosterone was measured, and I still felt terrible.

I only feel good when I increase the test to 400mg per week or more, which causes my SHBG to drop, and my total and free testosterone to rise high out of the normal range.

Otherwise, when I have free testosterone within the normal range, I still feel terrible.

Thanks for the detailed response.

Have you tried including Proviron in your regimen? It can really work wonders to keep your SHBG low. I would suggest investing in the pharmacy brand Schering so you know what you are using is legit and then try a dose of 25mgs a day when you are on TRT levels. Then once you get new bloodwork, as long as you kept all variables the same as in the past, you should be able to see what exactly the 25mg does does for your SHBG levels
and free test and then adjust the dosage from there. I'm betting it would be a pretty significant even at 25mg/day.

 

[Sides]

Thanks for the detailed response.

Have you tried including Proviron in your regimen? It can really work wonders to keep your SHBG low. I would suggest investing in the pharmacy brand Schering so you know what you are using is legit and then try a dose of 25mgs a day when you are on TRT levels. Then once you get new bloodwork, as long as you kept all variables the same as in the past, you should be able to see what exactly the 25mg does does for your SHBG levels
and free test and then adjust the dosage from there. I'm betting it would be a pretty significant even at 25mg/day.

Thanks so much for the suggestion of Proviron, which I have used extensively in the past, and I do have an ample supply of Schering Proviron on hand.

I have a love affair with Proviron, Masteron, and other DHT derivatives, but it has been my experience that long-term use has brought problems. Rogue, who I respect greatly, has written about this in the past, that some men seem to have problems after long-term use of the DHT derivatives.

I love Proviron for the libido boost, and at 25mg per day it does seem to calm my OCD down and make me feel good. The same is true for Masteron. The problem was that after extended use of Proviron (from November 2017 to April 2019 without a break) it seemed to be hurting rather than helping my libido. Perhaps because the DHT derivatives block the effects of estrogen at the E2-receptors, or perhaps because long-term use alters the ability of 5-AR to synthesize our own endogenous DHT, I really started feeling unwell when I used Proviron for a long time without a break.

When I tried to stop using Proviron after long-term use, I felt sick and had actual withdrawal symptoms, and developed some gynecomastia. I actually found some support for this in the medical literature, where the following study reports men feeling ill discontinuing Proviron after long-term use of 12 weeks, although this study related men feeling ill to Proviron's effects on DHEA:

[Effects of long-term use of mesterolone on different urine metabolites in andrological patients (author's transl)] - PubMed

We studied whether long-term use of mesterolone (12 weeks and longer) changed the pattern of steroid metabolites in urine from male subjects. We noticed an increase in dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) levels from 211-4 +/- 130.5 ug/die to 9943.8 +/- 6564.7 ug/die in the urine of all subjects...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"We studied whether long-term use of mesterolone (12 weeks and longer) changed the pattern of steroid metabolites in urine from male subjects. We noticed an increase in dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) levels from 211-4 +/- 130.5 ug/die to 9943.8 +/- 6564.7 ug/die in the urine of all subjects tested. This increase was significant. After mesterolone administration was discontinued, DHEA levels decreased to their initial value. DHEA levels showed the smallest increase in those subjects having high plasma FSH levels. Perhaps the delta 4 pathway of testosterone synthesis may be preferred in these three subjects. We suppose that mesterolone has a blocking effect on the delta 5 pathway of testosterone synthesis. DHEA from the DHEA-pool can be used for testosterone synthesis and mesterolone seems to block some enzymes in the synthetic pathway. We were not able to detect a decrease in plasma testosterone levels during mesterolone use because of technical problems. Moreover, our patients told us that they felt ill after discontinuing mesterolone use; it may be possible that there is a psychotropic DHEA-effect during mesterolone use."

For me personally, after long-term use without a break, I felt awkward or ill when using, and much worse when I discontinued Proviron. I had no libidio, anxiety and other high-E symptoms on a TRT 200mg dose of test, and my plasma levels of DHT were low or mid-range on bloodwork. After 3 months at the TRT 200mg dosage, I still felt bad and only felt better when I went back up to using 400mg or more of test per week. But my libido has never recovered to when it was feeling really good using Masteron or Proviron.

So now I will throw Proviron in from time to time, and it seems to make me feel better. But I am careful to take breaks so that I don't develop dependence on it, because I (and apparently other men) have felt ill and had withdrawal symptoms when I have tried to go off using Proviron after extended use.

If there's an answer to this problem, it's above my pay grade to solve it. I've read countless studies on DHT in the past year, trying to get back to where I was before, but for whatever reason my libido has never recovered to where it was a year and a half ago, before I started developing problems possibly due to being on Proviron for too long.

 

[Ares]

I know exactly what you mean. I've gone through the exact same experience with crushing anxiety and depression. Last summer was the worst.

I've spent most of the last 28 years using 400-500mg of testosterone per week, along with other compounds rotated in, with good experiences and very few problems. But to make a complicated long story short, last year at this time I ended up with gyno after using Tren, which got worse after I dropped DHT compounds (Proviron, Masteron), and the gyno got much worse after I tried Trestolone. I dropped everything to just 200mg of Test Cyp per week and tried to fight the gyno with Nolvadex and Raloxifene.

At first, I thought the depression and anxiety I was feeling was because of the SERM's (Nolva and Ralox.) But even after I dropped them and continued on 200mg Test, I felt miserable and anxious and my OCD symptoms went through the roof. For over three months I was horribly depressed and the anxiety was terrible, I was jumping out of my own skin. Finally in August I went back to using 400mg per week of Test, and almost immediately I felt much better, and the gyno did not recur. Went up to 600mg of Test, and I was downright happy, with much less anxiety, and the gyno still didn't come back.

Since then, I have stayed on at least 400mg of Test per week, and while I have other side effects, the depression and anxiety and OCD symptoms have never come back as bad as they did last summer. The only way I felt better was to increase the dose.

I think after a long time at a certain dose, your body and your mind just get used to that level of stimulation, and you don't feel well when you drop the dose. At least for me, that has been the case. Maybe the answer is to keep the dose low, and just get on an anti-depressant and anxiety medication. But when I look at all the negative side effects of the SSRI's and SNRI's and tri-cyclic anti-depressants, I have to think that maybe I am better off just sticking with testosterone.

I wish I had better news for you, but this has been my experience.

Do you need any AI or SERM during higher dose test (400mg+). I also feel a lot better during higher dose than with cruise dose but I think it´s not that bad as you guys are describing.

 

[heavyhitter]

Do you need any AI or SERM during higher dose test (400mg+). I also feel a lot better during higher dose than with cruise dose but I think it´s not that bad as you guys are describing.

That depends on your bloodwork. Personally on 400 test I don’t run an ai. I like my e slightly elevated when my t is also elevated

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

An issue with Deca only cycles is that estrogen is neuroprotective. Well Deca does convert some to estrogen it does not aromatize like testosterone does therefore it's supposed to not be neuroprotective. From a health standpoint for Deca only cycles some test needs to be used even if it's 20 mg every other day or maybe at the minimum DHEA

 

[Golden]

Sorry to derail but @Sides @pimpman it has been really beneficial to read about your exprience with raised test levels on mental health. Opened my eyes. I’m nearly 45 decided a while ago to stick to test alone. @DOGGCRAPP made a post in 1of the ‘avoiding test‘ threads about how it as the parent hormone affected the body in comparison to other AAS and it made a lot of sense. i Feel my best in all departments, mentally and physically, between 300-500mg test alone, any higher I need to mess with oestrogen.

 

[Vanilla Thunder]

what was the lowest effective dosage of Deca you used that stopped shoulder pain?

I get significant joint pain relief from just 70-100mg / wk of NPP

 

[xpoc]

Bring Back Deca-Durabolin!

Can Deca Replace Testosterone in HRT? A hormone that does most of what testosterone does but is 10 times more powerful and doesn’t affect your prostate or your hair – why aren’t we using it? I started thinking about the anabolic steroid nandrolone (deca-durabolin) because of my dog. He was...

www.t-nation.com

Another interesting read....Deca instead of test for TRT. Never heard of this before.