Interesting Study on Building Muscle on a Ketogenic Diet

[LW123]

Well, I'm pretty sure all the different variations of low carb diet out there works and backed up with research and all, but for me I'd rather get my daily 300g of carbs because I feel like shit throughout the day when I go low carbs (I mean less than 100g). I have no energy, fucking hungry all the time, and god forbid should I go and train because I'll just be going through the motion. Carbs my friend. Carbs my Friend. Carbs my friend!

 

[alpha lifter]

A tip for good tasting but still macro and low carb friendly dinners is to pan fry thin pieces of chicken/pork/beef in a evoo/grass fed butter mix then make a pan reduction sauce with the fond. Some onions, chopped fresh garlic and a little stock to de glaze is all you need. Along with some more veggies on the side.

 

[SugarFree]

Funny story about that, when I first tried a ketogenic diet I had the best bloodwork I had ever had in my life, and my doctor was so shocked that she asked what the hell I did. When I told her I was eating a dozen eggs every day along with fatty cuts of meat, this was her reaction...

I had the exact same thing happen followed by the doc telling me to not eat so many eggs because i'll get high cholesterol despite just seeing it was lower then it ever was pre-diet.

 

[SugarFree]

I'm pretty obsessive about getting body fat testing and keeping logs and such. I love low-carbing but do see better results when having a one day per week refeed as far as protecting muscle loss or slight gain to lbm. I can diet this way with zero loss from LBM and even a slight negligible gain as long as cardio isnt included. When I add cardio in LBM loss can go up to 25%.

I usually only add cardio in now when I reach 10% and struggling to go lower. Gonna try and do 2-a-days next time round in place of cardio to see if that keeps the weight loss going.

 

[ferd]

I recently finished Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz. It's very informative regarding how, over the past 50 or so years, the government has pushed us away from diet high in animal products toward plant, grain based diet. Heart disease and obesity have soared during that time. She is a scientific research writer that was a vegetarian until she started researching this.

 

[NY Muscle]

I'm pretty obsessive about getting body fat testing and keeping logs and such. I love low-carbing but do see better results when having a one day per week refeed as far as protecting muscle loss or slight gain to lbm. I can diet this way with zero loss from LBM and even a slight negligible gain as long as cardio isnt included. When I add cardio in LBM loss can go up to 25%.

I usually only add cardio in now when I reach 10% and struggling to go lower. Gonna try and do 2-a-days next time round in place of cardio to see if that keeps the weight loss going.

My routine is Sunday to Friday morning all fat and protein. After my Friday am work out which is a very high volume high rep "depletion workout" I'll have my first carb and whey shake in the bathroom. Then it's oatmeal and rice and poptarts, bagels and whatever else that has low to NO fat all day long.

Shoot for like 500 to 600 grams of carbs and whatever else you want for protein.

Saturday pretty much same thing. This is not a pig out so eat clean but lots of carbs. Saturday night do some cardio to help start the process of getting back in ketosis and then Sunday back to fat and protein. Friday and Saturday I take a lot of glucose disposal pills with all the meals.

I look forward to Friday so much so it keeps me sane and motivated. Also Mondays workout or Sunday if you decide to lift on Sunday is insane and your muscles are so full of glycogen and you look sick all veiny and pumped. Usually by the 4th or 5th post carb up workout you are looking fucking sick. It'd awesome. So after a month you should really notice major changes.

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[SugarFree]

I look forward to Friday so much so it keeps me sane and motivated. Also Mondays workout or Sunday if you decide to lift on Sunday is insane and your muscles are so full of glycogen and you look sick all veiny and pumped. Usually by the 4th or 5th post carb up workout you are looking fucking sick. It'd awesome. So after a month you should really notice major changes.

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Yes getting that high carb day once a week keeps me sane and able to stay with the dieting long term and as you said the day after while glycogen levels are filled makes for my best lifting day of the week.

 

[Whey2Heavy]

I think some of you may enjoy this video. This guy's channel is great for "old school" diet and training advice.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-EaHRfmgdY"]Golden Era Diet of Hi Protein Lo Carb - YouTube[/ame]

 

[charmander]

im three days into a REAL keto diet (ie, 20% protein 80% fat)

protein intake ends up being 140 grams or less, which seems insane to me at 230lb, but so be it i've got aas in the blood

hope is to get to a dickskin lean 205lb. been there before, but never gotten there with keto

we'll see how it goes...

 

[NY Muscle]

im three days into a REAL keto diet (ie, 20% protein 80% fat)

protein intake ends up being 140 grams or less, which seems insane to me at 230lb, but so be it i've got aas in the blood

hope is to get to a dickskin lean 205lb. been there before, but never gotten there with keto

we'll see how it goes...

"real keto"? You mean medical therapeutic keto which is really not what guys like us are looking to follow.

My % are WAY different and work wonders. I am at 50/50% cals from protein and fat and under 30gms of carbs.
I do 200-250gms protein, I vary 50-125gms of fat. I am NEVER "kicked out of ketosis" by the silly myth of "too much" protein and gluconeogenesis (GNG) and I test blood ketones often to verify.

The biggest myth in the keto world is this nonsense about protein->glucose. You cannot alter the rate of GNG, it is demand driven, happens all the time and you won't eat enough protein to change its' rate. I have gone well over 400gms a day for a week, tested blood ketones 8-10 times a day and never had issues with ketones/ketosis.

 

[goal245]

I like to keep carbs lower around 100-150g most days with a carbup once per week. I look and feel better this way than eating 300-400 carbs every day.

Full keto could be better but I think it is too restrictive for an everyday lifestyle diet and is hard to sustain for years on end.

 

[NY Muscle]

I like to keep carbs lower around 100-150g most days with a carbup once per week. I look and feel better this way than eating 300-400 carbs every day.

Full keto could be better but I think it is too restrictive for an everyday lifestyle diet and is hard to sustain for years on end.

Lower carb up numbers are fine and depends on your goals, truth be told my 600gms is "low" as by the book CKD calls for like 1300+ gms over the 1st 24 hrs and like 800+ the 2nd but that is too much for me (I wont be able to lose fat) and mainly done to achieve optimal glycogen supercompensation. Also I limit mine to less than 12 hrs and really only over 2-3 meals.

But I see what you are saying and doing, basically carb cycling not keto + carb ups which is fine too but not keto.

 

[goal245]

But I see what you are saying and doing, basically carb cycling not keto + carb ups which is fine too but not keto.

With my metabolism I'm borderline ketosis on 100-150 grams carbs and if I miss a meal or skip carbs in one meal I'll get the ketosis taste/smell in my mouth pretty quick. Full keto a week or two before a show is perfect to lose the last bit of fat.

When I was in high school I remember getting the ketosis breath almost every night because I would eat 2-3 times per day while running 40 miles per week, looking back now I realize I was getting into ketosis

 

[Beti ona]

Well, I'm pretty sure all the different variations of low carb diet out there works and backed up with research and all, but for me I'd rather get my daily 300g of carbs because I feel like shit throughout the day when I go low carbs (I mean less than 100g). I have no energy, fucking hungry all the time, and god forbid should I go and train because I'll just be going through the motion. Carbs my friend. Carbs my Friend. Carbs my friend!

People who feel better with carbohydrates may be are most addicted and with more health problems in the long run.

Simply test a pure ketogenic diet and endure the 2 weeks of induction.

 

[bereal23]

"real keto"? You mean medical therapeutic keto which is really not what guys like us are looking to follow.

My % are WAY different and work wonders. I am at 50/50% cals from protein and fat and under 30gms of carbs.
I do 200-250gms protein, I vary 50-125gms of fat. I am NEVER "kicked out of ketosis" by the silly myth of "too much" protein and gluconeogenesis (GNG) and I test blood ketones often to verify.

The biggest myth in the keto world is this nonsense about protein->glucose. You cannot alter the rate of GNG, it is demand driven, happens all the time and you won't eat enough protein to change its' rate. I have gone well over 400gms a day for a week, tested blood ketones 8-10 times a day and never had issues with ketones/ketosis.

Do any other keto experts agree with you on GNG not kicking you of ketosis? The few big keto doctors that I've listened to all say too much protein will kick you out of ketosis. You've actually tested your blood and know for a fact it doesn't so what are they basing this off of? I side with you on it but I don't understand why every other keto expert claims the opposite

 

[goal245]

Do any other keto experts agree with you on GNG not kicking you of ketosis? The few big keto doctors that I've listened to all say too much protein will kick you out of ketosis. You've actually tested your blood and know for a fact it doesn't so what are they basing this off of? I side with you on it but I don't understand why every other keto expert claims the opposite

Maybe these keto experts only have experience with obese regular people and not a bodybuilder on AAS who can handle/needs more protein. maybe a bodybuilders starting metabolism is better vs some obese fat ass that gets out of ketosis from eating a chicken breast.

I've been in ketosis on 400gram protein and low fat 50 grams, few weeks depleting for a show

 

[bereal23]

Maybe these keto experts only have experience with obese regular people and not a bodybuilder on AAS who can handle/needs more protein. maybe a bodybuilders starting metabolism is better vs some obese fat ass that gets out of ketosis from eating a chicken breast.

I've been in ketosis on 400gram protein and low fat 50 grams, few weeks depleting for a show

Maybe. But if you listen to anything from Dominic D’Agostino, he seems fairly serious about weight training and he never mentions high or moderate protein being alright for anybody. Just says it will kick you out off ketosis through GNG. I just find it odd that every "authority" in the keto world says low protein and then you have NYM proving the exact opposite with his own blood testing. You'd think these guys would at least mention that not every person has to keep their protein low to stay in ketosis

 

[goal245]

Maybe. But if you listen to anything from Dominic D’Agostino, he seems fairly serious about weight training and he never mentions high or moderate protein being alright for anybody. Just says it will kick you out off ketosis through GNG. I just find it odd that every "authority" in the keto world says low protein and then you have NYM proving the exact opposite with his own blood testing. You'd think these guys would at least mention that not every person has to keep their protein low to stay in ketosis

Check out this experiment this guy did on How much protein can you eat and stay in ketosis:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-much-protein-can-you-eat-in-ketosis

160lbs male on true keto diet eating 45g protein per day, in ketosis confirmed by Blood-ketone meter

increased protein to 160 grams per day over a week

Guess what?

Still in ketosis, some days even stronger ketosis than on low protein

 

[ferd]

"real keto"? You mean medical therapeutic keto which is really not what guys like us are looking to follow.

My % are WAY different and work wonders. I am at 50/50% cals from protein and fat and under 30gms of carbs.
I do 200-250gms protein, I vary 50-125gms of fat. I am NEVER "kicked out of ketosis" by the silly myth of "too much" protein and gluconeogenesis (GNG) and I test blood ketones often to verify.

The biggest myth in the keto world is this nonsense about protein->glucose. You cannot alter the rate of GNG, it is demand driven, happens all the time and you won't eat enough protein to change its' rate. I have gone well over 400gms a day for a week, tested blood ketones 8-10 times a day and never had issues with ketones/ketosis.

Good to know. This flies in the face of what is being told by so called "experts".

 

[Beti ona]

I do 200-250gms protein, I vary 50-125gms of fat. I am NEVER "kicked out of ketosis" by the silly myth of "too much" protein and gluconeogenesis (GNG) and I test blood ketones often to verify.

The biggest myth in the keto world is this nonsense about protein->glucose. You cannot alter the rate of GNG, it is demand driven, happens all the time and you won't eat enough protein to change its' rate. I have gone well over 400gms a day for a week, tested blood ketones 8-10 times a day and never had issues with ketones/ketosis.

Very interesting information, could you go into it? :headbang: