Interesting Study on Building Muscle on a Ketogenic Diet

[Beti ona]

Check out this experiment this guy did on How much protein can you eat and stay in ketosis:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-much-protein-can-you-eat-in-ketosis

160lbs male on true keto diet eating 45g protein per day, in ketosis confirmed by Blood-ketone meter

increased protein to 160 grams per day over a week

Guess what?

Still in ketosis, some days even stronger ketosis than on low protein

This shit made the day, thank you!:headbang:

 

[NY Muscle]

So here is the issue with “too much protein’ it is a decades old myth which then really took off when Lyle wrote his book in 1998ish? He mentioned that “up to 58% of protein can convert to glucose via GNG”, people panicked and did not READ carefully and they assumed hat 58% of ALL protein consumed does this. I am even guilty of that but still consumed pretty high protein back in the 90s on keto. The fact is you can’t alter the rate of GNG as there is zero evidence/studies in human that show it is supply driven.

****THE MAIN reason this keeps being spread is because of MLMrs and charlatans selling products based off this absurd nonsense, it is the Amway of the 21st century. These silly keto products with 75/25/5 ratios is nonsense but God forbid people knew the truth, these companies can’t sell their stuff any more. These chubby keto zealots pushing adding fat to everything would no longer make any money. They like to push this fear protein and gorge on fat because it makes sense to them and they like stuffing their faces with fat. Protein is boring, fat is not.

Do I know for a FACT that VERY well known keto gurus know there is no fear of protein… YES… I spoke at a keto seminar last year in Vegas and then in Florida and some of them were there (everyone knows these keto people)…we talked privately…um yeah… they make money off this stupidly and they wanted me on board to push their products as long as I:

A – removed any mention on all my social media accounts of too much protein not kicking you out of ketosis.
B – push the bull shit myth they and others do.

I declined…

I think people fear the truth, no joke. When I started keto in 1995 all we did was use ketostix and we always remembered the ol "58% of protein/aminos converts to glucose" but what we did not know was that meant "58% of aminos CAN convert, not will always convert' so that is where I believe all this myth/fear started. I never feared protein, even in the 90's I would eat a lot or protein and then last year I said why not test what I know is true and I did and I was right.

I am in keto facebook groups with a combined 150,000+ members and a ton of us have tested and came to the same conclusion = zero issues with ketosis.

So, about 58% of “excess protein” get converted and who know what is excess? Also this is a good thing when eating low/no carbs as our brain and other bodily functions need the glucose. So this conversion is needed and the body utilizes the glucose, it doesn’t kick you out of ketosis or render your ketogenic diet useless. You are still keto. Now what does 1000gms of protein do? not sure and that is too many calories for me to desire to find out nor care.

As stated above I “blame” my boy Lyle McDonald for this 58% number as that is where most people started to learn about it, in his book. I and Lyle did keto together and shared experiences with many others in the very old Low-Carb list-serve before he wrote his book. I was doing Keto ala BodyOpus under Dan Duchaine (he was helpful in my testing of his keto version) and then Lyle took it to another level and wrote that good albeit somewhat outdated book.

This myth is just like starvation mode myth or small meals “stoke the metabolic flame”, protein is bad for kidneys, creatine will kill you etc etc… some people refuse to research and just accept what they hear… they are simple lazy people.

So lets talk about Gluconeogenesis and regarding excess protein -> glucose

The Ketogenic Diet for Health: If You Eat Excess Protein, Does It Turn Into Excess Glucose?

The body mostly turns protein into glucose based on need:

Dietary protein does not negatively impact blood glucose control. | The poor, misunderstood calorie

It is hard to eat enough excess protein to remove you from ketosis entirely, often it doesn't change anything:

Dietary protein does not negatively impact blood glucose control. | The poor, misunderstood calorie


And of course, the genius, Peter, says the same, aminos CAN provide oxalaoacetate to reduce ketogenesis, but the question is, does this happen in the liver? Hyperlipid: Ketosis and Protein

I happily accept any other articles that state the contrary of what is being proposed here. However, the evidence and biochemistry stands to reason: it is quite difficult to over consume protein to the point of being out of ketosis.

http://youtu.be/4JE-wdA3PHw

http://examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting/

https://youtu.be/mjmV8BlsJTQ

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Finally...The human evidence on reasonable variations in protein consumption disagree. The rate of GNG is relatively fixed and is NOT affected by supply.

There is not a single study in humans (and none in rats/frogs/pigs/et that I'm aware of) which indicate too much protein does anything but spike blood glucose moderately. The only study I've seen that tested both insulin and glucagon indicates that the I/G ratio is preserved, meaning the BG spike does not "kick you out of ketosis."


So as I mentioned I ran a little experiment for 5-6 days… Higher than normal protein consumption. 100-150 grams of whey PER MEAL.... Did blood ketone tests over 50 times. (no joke) Zero issues on my blood ketone levels and even blood glucose. I wish more people would do this because GNG is like the Loch Ness monster of the keto world

 

[NY Muscle]

And now the 2016/2017 myth/scam are exogenous ketone products that "put you in ketosis" NO they do not. It is called "peetosis" you are peeing out what you just drank, it is NOT nutritional ketosis..never will be.

Look at all the BB gurus allover the net who NEVER talked about keto are now selling products with exo-ketones in them...hey everyone wants to get a peice of the very easy pie to make money off of... gullible keto dieters.

Exogenous ketones do have some usage but they do not put you in ketosis. I have access to the REAL deal ketone ESTERS... potent, and PRICEY but again I am so keto adapted they are not useful to me. The bottle I have is like $100-$200/dosage, it's crazy.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

And now the 2016/2017 myth/scam are exogenous ketone products that "put you in ketosis" NO they do not. It is called "peetosis" you are peeing out what you just drank, it is NOT nutritional ketosis..never will be.

Look at all the BB gurus allover the net who NEVER talked about keto are now selling products with exo-ketones in them...hey everyone wants to get a peice of the very easy pie to make money off of... gullible keto dieters.

Exogenous ketones do have some usage but they do not put you in ketosis. I have access to the REAL deal ketone ESTERS... potent, and PRICEY but again I am so keto adapted they are not useful to me. The bottle I have is like $100-$200/dosage, it's crazy.

Thanks for the great intel here NY.

Quick? for you, did you ever run into issues with high Uric acid levels?

I dont believe it was because of the protein consumption, however, the carb re-feed days or the lack there of carbs (not enough)

The doc borderline wanted to give me script because it was too high, however, my entire blood work came back A+ (including cholesterol)

 

[NY Muscle]

Thanks for the great intel here NY.

Quick? for you, did you ever run into issues with high Uric acid levels?

I dont believe it was because of the protein consumption, however, the carb re-feed days or the lack there of carbs (not enough)

The doc borderline wanted to give me script because it was too high, however, my entire blood work came back A+ (including cholesterol)

I have never notice any issues with uric acid but I put my friend on keto and then he said his gout flared up...coincidence? Not sure but it is odd because some people get relief from gout on keto. But the issue comes from the low carbs not the protein.

 

[LK3]

NY
i think one thing you may want to consider is the individual interpretation of all this...

from what i have seen you eat pretty good and lots of veg.
this is key and what a lot of more beginner sort of people probably dont do that may lead to other health stuff like the high ua...

i have certainly done dumb stuff eating wise being much more focused on what i could eat for the outside, rather then the inside.


so much of the rest is just marketing bs, idk why anyone would listen.

lots of veggies, veggies veggies veggies...
fuck i need to work on that. lol
:banghead:

 

[Chipper Jones78]

I have never notice any issues with uric acid but I put my friend on keto and then he said his gout flared up...coincidence? Not sure but it is odd because some people get relief from gout on keto. But the issue comes from the low carbs not the protein.

Cheers / thanks.

 

[zacharykane]

"Peetosis" is about the best term that could ever be used for these products that claim to put people into ketosis :headbang:

And now the 2016/2017 myth/scam are exogenous ketone products that "put you in ketosis" NO they do not. It is called "peetosis" you are peeing out what you just drank, it is NOT nutritional ketosis..never will be.

Look at all the BB gurus allover the net who NEVER talked about keto are now selling products with exo-ketones in them...hey everyone wants to get a peice of the very easy pie to make money off of... gullible keto dieters.

Exogenous ketones do have some usage but they do not put you in ketosis. I have access to the REAL deal ketone ESTERS... potent, and PRICEY but again I am so keto adapted they are not useful to me. The bottle I have is like $100-$200/dosage, it's crazy.

 

[bieberhole69]

Just to further add to the protein / ketosis info (and a little above and beyond to further mix things up), in 2014 I had a random urine done while in prep--was on my 3rd day of 100g carbs, 350p, and 59f. Ketones present.

 

[11111]

Breakfast is almost always bacon and whole eggs with shredded cheddar cheese. Sometimes I may use egg whites and then add more bacon and cheese or coconut oil.

Next meal is a few scoops of iso100 whey plus coconut oil or flaxseed oil.

Same shake after lunch and a small one at night.

Lunch as well as dinner can be chicken salad with some other fatty items
egg salad
burgers with bacon and cheddar mixed in
or burgers topped with a few slices of pepperoni and cheddar and then put in microwave. Fuck tastes so good.
Sausage
Steak ums
Lots of Buffalo chicken used in many meals

My favorite meal is a few thin chicken breasts I grilled and diced up put in a bowl then diced up a bunch of sliced pepperoni then add some shredded cheddar. Put in microwave take out and add some mayo. Tastes like fettuccine alfredo. It's my #1 goto meal other than eggs and bacon on this diet. I fkin love it

When I go out to dinner I'd get steak or big ass cheeseburger with bacon and take off the bread. Just use the lettuce. If at a diner I get a big omelet.

I don't go to fast food places but wayyy back in the day if I was in a rush I'd drop by McDonald's and get a bacon double cheeseburgers and remove the bread. I haven't done that in ages and don't plan to ever again. Their food is shit.

If I find the need to snack I'll take a small chuck of cheddar with a few slices of pepperoni and dip in mayo. Fuckin love it
I snack on almonds but not many as they have carbs. Little teaspoon of almond butter from time to time too. Pork rinds if u need to have something crunchy.

My friend mashes up pork rinds to the consistency of bread crumbs and uses them to "bread" his chicken breast then fry or bake em.

Lettuce you can have a lot as 2 cups is 3 grams of carbs. So I get romaine and add a tbsp of ceasar dressing which has only 1 go of carb.


Basically your choices are:
Meats
Chicken
Deli meats
Eggs
Cheese
Mayo
Avocado
Coconut and flax oil etc
Whey protein
You can make a ton of combinations with those things. So there is really no standard meal just don't have any carbs.

Also try to count your calories too as this is a diet so keep it within the range you want it to be, though this diet is forgiving and you can eat more than a normal diet and still lose fat


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Excellent post, thank you!