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is 25 years old to young for hgh?

TeknoViking

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i want to run hgh thinking about 5ius ed for as long as possible. Do you think at 25 years old this would be a waste? i will be running a few cycles while on the hgh. I just feel like i might need to run around 8-10 ius ed for some mass.
 

TeknoViking

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do you think 6ius 6 days a week is ok?
 

Druss

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theres a recent post here somewhere that says new research shows that hgh +AAS= heart problems. The Younger you are greater they will be. You might consider using it between cycles at a lower dose for longer instead of at the same time with AAS...
 

PRGro

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Tekno,

The guys on the board will need more info to give you any valuable advise. At least let us know how long you plan to run GH, when you plan on throwing in AAS, etc.
 

ballennonstop

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theres a recent post here somewhere that says new research shows that hgh +AAS= heart problems. The Younger you are greater they will be. You might consider using it between cycles at a lower dose for longer instead of at the same time with AAS...
Yeah I know which study your referring to and I believe there's validity to it. If I'm not mistaken it showed that HGH is not that bad for the heart when used by itself but when used in conjunction with AAS the heart works much harder and hypertrophies to maintain homeostasis. Based on that study HGH seems ideal to bridge cycles or off cycle.
 

juicin

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Im guessing this is the study you guys are talking about. Note that it does say the effects of heart hypertrophy wear off during "wash out periods" (off time)


Anabolic Steroids, Growth Hormone, and Hypertrophy of the Heart


The debate on the effect of anabolic substances on the structure of the heart reached another phase, since Finnish scientists studied twenty local bodybuilders who had just finished their cycles. Steroids don’t damage the heart, the researchers found. But the combination of steroids and growth hormone does.
Context
Since the eighties scientists have been discussing whether steroids enlarge the heart, when several sports investigators learned steroid use was associated with enlargement of the left ventricular mass – the part of the heart that pumps oxygenated blood through the body. An overdeveloped left ventricle causes arrhythmia and, in severe cases, death. In 2001 Australian physicians found the hypertrophy in clean strength athletes and postulated that this condition was caused by weight training, not steroid use. They also found that the hypertrophy didn’t impair their subjects’ health.
The new Finnish study, published in the International Journal of Sports Medicine in the summer of 2003, doesn’t contradict the Australian study. Nevertheless, it provides insight into the relationship between anabolic substances and heart hypertrophy.
Study
The Finnish ran an advertorial in a bodybuilding magazine on their project. Twenty bodybuilders, who had planned to do a cycle and bought their medication on the black market, responded. Before their cycle started the bodybuilders had their medication checked and analysed by the pharmacological department of the university. Not unnecessary, because up to fifty percent of the European black steroids may be counterfeited, according to the latest estimates.
Sixteen bodybuilders used steroids only. The weekly doses varied from a few hundred milligrams to more than thousand milligrams.
Four athletes stacked their steroids with growth hormone. All four used moderate dosages of two, three or four IU’s during four to six weeks. The growth hormone was injected once daily, mostly in the evening. In this group steroid doses were 1,3 times higher than in the steroids only group.
When their cycles ended, the bodybuilders had their hearts examined. The table below summarizes some results. The control group consisted of fifteen young males with active life styles who didn’t engage in weight training.
Results
Control
(15) Steroids
(16) Steroids + GH
(4)
Heart rate 66 bpm 65 bpm 65 bpm
Systolic blood pressure 131 mmHg 131 mmHg 130 mmHg
Diastolic blood pressure 77 mmHg 76 mmHg 89 mmHg
Left ventricular weight 167 g 257 g 342 g
Ratio left ventricular weight: length 93 g/m 141 g/m 191 g/m
Relative wall thinkness 0,37 0,42 0,53
Ratio early peak flow velocity: peak atrial flow velocity (E/A ratio) 1,66 1,72 1,29
Steroids and the combination of steroids and growth hormone change the structure of the heart, the table suggests. But that doesn’t have any consequences for the cardiovascular health of at least the steroid users. Their diastolic blood pressure – reported to rise phenomenally in some steroid related medical horror-stories – was fine, and more interestingly, their E/A ratio improved. Cardiologists use the E/A ratio to measure the hearts efficiency. According to the table, in the steroids only group deterioration of the heart muscle didn’t occur.
But growth hormone, well, that is another story. The table speaks for itself. The higher steroid doses that the GH-users took can only explain a small part of the serious ventricular hypertrophy, the Finnish stress. They suspect that the lowering effect of androgens on the IGF-1-binding protein 3 concentrations causes the ventricular growth.
Discussion
So far not so good. But there is more. The Finnish discovered something very interesting about the nature of the relationship between anabolic aids and hypertrophy of the heart: it’s direct. For example, the Finnish asked their subjects for how many years they had been using steroids. The answers varied from one to twelve years. Statistically the relationship between lifetime steroid use and the E/A ratio was weak. On the other hand, the mean steroid dose of the present cycle was a strong predictor of variables like E/A ratio, ventricular weight of relative wall thickness.
This means that cycles don’t have a cumulative effect on heart hypertrophy. The Finnish discovered that even the pronounced impact of cycles with added growth hormone wears off. That became evident when they investigated an athlete three times: when he just finished a five weeks cycle of steroids and growth hormone, after a wash out period of 237 days, and just after he completed a steroids only cycle. The results are in the figure below.

Of course a study with twenty users is not conclusive. But the study suggests that
1. just like the Australians proved before, steroids are not as disastrous for the heart morphology as some agencies want you to believe;
2. the combination with growth hormone does however add considerable cardiovascular risks to steroid cycles; and
3. the deleterious effects wear off during wash out periods.
Especially athletes in their late thirties and older should take their wash out periods seriously.
The age of the subjects in the Finnish study ranged from 25 to 43. In this population age was the strongest predictor of the E/A ratio. The older they were, the lower their ratio ratio. (The Pearson’s correlation coefficient was –0.70. The coefficient of mean steroid dose and E/A ratio was –0.42.)
 

suparay

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k im 22 i been as high as 8 ius ed honestly imo i thought it was pointless i find with a lil test and slin i grow fine on 4 ius ed but thats my opnion
 

wasp

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yeah, but at what levels of aas and what type? like is gh used with androgel bad? andro is roughly 35mg a week.................what if you were using 100mg of test a week? wheres the line?
 

suparay

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yeah, but at what levels of aas and what type? like is gh used with androgel bad? andro is roughly 35mg a week.................what if you were using 100mg of test a week? wheres the line?
4 ius of gh ed before bed
Test En my dosages were from 500-1500 i went up to 1500 when i was dieting for a show but 500-750 of test e was my normal dose

then when i do use slin 5 ius post work out
 

TeknoViking

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Tekno,

The guys on the board will need more info to give you any valuable advise. At least let us know how long you plan to run GH, when you plan on throwing in AAS, etc.
Running at the moment

100mg ed var
100mg eod test prop
100mg eod mast prop
.5mg eod arimidex

for 8-10 weeks havent decided yet.

going to take 16 weeks or or so and then hit a lean bulk cycle.
 

wasp

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4 ius of gh ed before bed
Test En my dosages were from 500-1500 i went up to 1500 when i was dieting for a show but 500-750 of test e was my normal dose

then when i do use slin 5 ius post work out
i was commenting on the study
 

Ataraxia

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i want to run hgh thinking about 5ius ed for as long as possible. Do you think at 25 years old this would be a waste? i will be running a few cycles while on the hgh. I just feel like i might need to run around 8-10 ius ed for some mass.
I just turned 26 and i have been running GH for 6 months now and think it has been GREAT! It really assisted me in cutting while maintaining mass. Of course my diet and routine have been on point but i have never been able to get as low BF as i am now! (about 8%). I truly believe the GH greatly assisted me as i have been working out and testing my body's response to all sorts of diets and regimens since i was 14!!! I have never reacted so well to anything.
I started doing 2-4IU in the AM, and then i switched to 2-4IU before bed and found that was the best!
 

TeknoViking

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really? i talk to so many mods and vets on other sites that say for guys our age that taking ot before bed it a bad idea. but i read on this site that some recommend it what is yrou thought on that.
 

disgraziato

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really? i talk to so many mods and vets on other sites that say for guys our age that taking ot before bed it a bad idea. but i read on this site that some recommend it what is yrou thought on that.
Our largest natural GH pulse occurs at night a few hours after sleep onset. Taking rHGH pre-bed will inhibit or eliminate completely this natural nighttime pulse. As we age, our GH output greatly declines to the point of near non-existence...Therefore, for those "long in the tooth" nighttime gh administration will improve their sleep because their bodies aren't secreting any significant amounts of gh anymore anyway. For the younger folk, avoid taking gh pre-bed. Why abolish the largest natural pulse we get? Take the gh first thing in the morning or PWO....
 

Benjifornothing

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really? i talk to so many mods and vets on other sites that say for guys our age that taking ot before bed it a bad idea. but i read on this site that some recommend it what is yrou thought on that.
gh users between 20-30 should utilize any natty gh secretion we get. best times to use would be first thing in the morning 30 mins before ur first meal. then again immediately pwo. thats the best protocol ive read and found for fat loss/over all full body recomp. for maximal mass gains, all ur gh immediately pwo. im 25 and do all mine pwo. never before bed
 

Jeremy24

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I just turned 26 and i have been running GH for 6 months now and think it has been GREAT! It really assisted me in cutting while maintaining mass. Of course my diet and routine have been on point but i have never been able to get as low BF as i am now! (about 8%). I truly believe the GH greatly assisted me as i have been working out and testing my body's response to all sorts of diets and regimens since i was 14!!! I have never reacted so well to anything.
I started doing 2-4IU in the AM, and then i switched to 2-4IU before bed and found that was the best!
You dont need gh to get to 8% bodyfat that is a relatively easy bf to obtain while staying pretty large
 

lwp

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Everyone's different, being off cycle for nearly 1yr I got bloodtests done before getting back on and:

free test: 10.8 pg/ml [9.3-26.5]

growth hormone (serum): 1.9 ng/ml [0-6.0] (don't know if I should've done igf instead)

This at 24 y.o., get some blood work done than decide from there.
 

fred9

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the study posted above sounds a little bit strange to me. Not really a scientific paper and also a lot of words that can only be found in the Bodybuilding community..

Anoyone got the link to the official site of it?!
 

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