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is bulking a waste of time being natural?

well, you said it. 1.5 years.................10 pounds

that is incredible progress, despite the fact you trained way too long and way too often
9 hours weight training per week is excessive

You're right that my progress was great.

About my training duration and frequency, I experimented with different training durations, and 1.5 was the optimal for me in terms of putting on the mass.

wtf do u guys think happens when you go to the gym do 50 some odd workouts per year for a bodypart, eat and sleep well, etc etc????????????

you gain small amounts of quality weight year after year.
people dont gain more then 10 pounds a year after they have been at it for a while.
At least not quality weight/stage weight

I can say in my case, after the first year of gaining around 10 lbs, I was barely making any gains in the subsequent years if any at all. As a matter of fact, as I got older (late 20s), I noticed my recovery was much slower and almost everything gradually went down hill. I basically plateaued as a natural in my mid 20s.

1/4-1/2 pound per month is tremendous progress. i dont care what body type you think you might be or how it limits you

If we're talking about solid, pure dry gain, then I agree. But unless we're talking about beginner gains, this kind of mostly lean gains don't happen as a natural, where fat and water are accounted for most of the weight gain.
 
Gear can wait, you need to keep training naturally.

tbh you cant really look at someones lifts like this and say how advanced they are training wise based purely on the numbers....some people start EXTREMELY weak and have a much lower ceiling when it comes to how strong they can actually get...
 
tbh you cant really look at someones lifts like this and say how advanced they are training wise based purely on the numbers....some people start EXTREMELY weak and have a much lower ceiling when it comes to how strong they can actually get...

It's just part of the picture. Look at his pictures, his diet and his training. He's not ready.
 
OTher than too much protein, what do you see wrong w my diet?

I don't eat the ice cream and chipotle everyday... Sometimes it's subway big Philly cheese steak w veggies, big Mac, club chicken sandwich, etc...
 
Kkv. I was like you. 150lbs at 6ft in hi school. I started lifting my junior year nd eating more. Again I ate like you, crap food bad timing no IDEA what I was doing. I got help from a few guys muc older and more developed than me. Within two yrs I hit 185 at 7 percent. Steroids are not the answer. You have not plagued as much as you may think u have. Your diet needs a lot of work, your training does too. Just accept the fact that you need help. Xyzzy or whatever his name is has a body that u can achieve natural. Note the guys here agreeing with you are also under developed..
 
OTher than too much protein, what do you see wrong w my diet?

I don't eat the ice cream and chipotle everyday... Sometimes it's subway big Philly cheese steak w veggies, big Mac, club chicken sandwich, etc...

lol.
 
I know most of us are getting on the bicycle way to soon, but waiting until your maxed out natural is equally "stupid".

That would take +10 years of hardcore, die hard-training and diet. Not saying its bad, but if you want to have a chance of "making it", you gotta jump on the wagon earlier.

Really??? Take a look at this guy this was when he was still natural. He maxed out his natural genetic potential bf he got on the gear.
 

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Really??? Take a look at this guy this was when he was still natural. He maxed out his natural genetic potential bf he got on the gear.

I hate when people do this. Let's just assume he was natural in that pic since there is no way to know for sure. There are maybe a handful of people IN THE WORLD that have the genetics to look like that natural. Using someone with top 0.001% genetics to prove a point is ridiculous. Most guys here will never even look like that juiced to the gills so what exactly is your point?
 
Actually, I know about it as well.

I have been there, and it's very frustrating when people look at me and almost all of them would be saying, "eat more dude," without realizing I was eating like a pig! :D

I think that a lot of the people who aren't ectomorphs don't realize how hard it is to gain weight, just as people who aren't naturally fat don't realize how hard it is to lose fat.

"eat more and you'll get big," or "go on diet you fat ass."

It's not that simple, mates. :p

Yes! Someone else with a brain! The "you're not eating enough" assholes who say this to guys who are close to their natural limit should be thrown into a fire
 
Honestly if you have to use steroids to look like "Zyzz", you got some crap genetics and should not mess with them to begin with. You can look like him with a good diet and basic training.

Winner of the most retarded post of 2013 right here. Congrats
 
Yeah, right. No family wants bad publicity. He had been previously caught and arrested for possession of steroids so it is known that he was on them. We just don't know how much he was using and for how long. We also don't know what ancillaries he was on. If you think using steroids is healthy for you then you are dillusional.

Dude sounds terrible while sleeping at the ripe age of 22.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5Z9gG_UJqNU]Zyzz getting tattoo - YouTube[/ame]
 
sure that could be true for some people who have a great starting point and the right genetics.

but for people like zyzz himself, it's complete nonsense. he went from a 140 lb stick figure to 215 lbs at 8% in under 3 years. and that was cycling on and off for the majority of that, not staying on year round.

no one is making that kind of change naturally in that timeframe. not even phil heath.

zyzz did what he had to do to look how he wanted to look. his use was mild compared to many here who are still living. but he had a heart condition, didnt get bloodwork done often enough, ingested the wrong things in thailand and bangkok took him. the end.

I'm not worried so much about his demise as that could have been a combination of things. However every video I have seen of him, he looked ripped but very skinny. I'd be surprised if he was ever 215 at 8% BF. That would mean that he could hang with some of the best 212s out there and we know that's just an improbable comparison unless Zyzz was 6'10''.
 
Really??? Take a look at this guy this was when he was still natural. He maxed out his natural genetic potential bf he got on the gear.

using a picture of the best in the sport is not helping your argument, and considering he fucked grapefruits from the get go makes him being natural in that pic even more false.. though you do make a point nonetheless.

how do i go from underdeveloped to where i want? actually considering hiring a coach... maybe phil
 
actually considering hiring a coach... maybe phil

Now this is the best thing I have seen you say in this entire thread.
 
using a picture of the best in the sport is not helping your argument, and considering he fucked grapefruits from the get go makes him being natural in that pic even more false.. though you do make a point nonetheless.

how do i go from underdeveloped to where i want? actually considering hiring a coach... maybe phil

how ? eat! dont listen to these guys. i am a true ecto, and thought i was " eating like a pig" what a joke. i started taking in 7 meals a day and started growing. im up at 2 am because i needed a last meal before i slept, and it was 8oz steak, 3pc whole grain bread, can of baked beans, 1 greek yogurt, 10oz milk.. eat 7 meals like that and you will grow..
 
how ? eat! dont listen to these guys. i am a true ecto, and thought i was " eating like a pig" what a joke. i started taking in 7 meals a day and started growing. im up at 2 am because i needed a last meal before i slept, and it was 8oz steak, 3pc whole grain bread, can of baked beans, 1 greek yogurt, 10oz milk.. eat 7 meals like that and you will grow..

so don't worry about going over 1g protein per lb?
 
no, not sure where you heard that. dont go eating 100g every meal but if you weigh 160 and take in 300 nothing bad will happen to you as long as it comes from quality sources. lean chicken turkey fish, lean beef eggs whey milk etc
 
MY biggest pet peeves in the sport.

a) Guys so unhappy with themselves that they blame everyone and every other thing for their unhappiness

b) They found out drugs work. Really? Were you that much of a freaking idiot before and didn't think they did? Everyone else knew they worked. How did you miss the boat? So now they think anything told to them pre-drugs means that they were told a bunch of bullshit. Want to make a fire? here is some dry straw and some kindling......oh Frankie poured some gas on that fire and its a huge fireball so now dry straw and kindling is a bunch of bullshit......(whatever)

Here is some truth for you

Drugs work.

Drugs with incredibly thought out progressive training and incredibly thought out nutrition work even better than just drugs by themselves.

If you don't do drugs, incredibly thought out progressive training and incredibly thought out nutrition are the best tools you have over the guy who also doesn't use drugs and trains and eats like crap.

Since you don't seem to read thoroughly and take blanket statements as pertaining to you.....if you cared to read the details I have recommended naturals take in 1.5 grams of protein. Do you really think I make any money off of you if you take in 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.....Eat that amount....I don't care how you take it in. It sure doesn't have to be protein powder and it sure as hell doesn't need to be protein powder from True Nutrition. IN fact I request it after seeing your post here. Don't ever buy protein powder from my company. If you are going to use it, buy it from some other company, place or entity. There that should take care of that problem.

You are skinny fat...I get it...you are unhappy and looking for someone to blame for your unhappiness. I was skinny fat too....I was a paltry 137 at 19-20 years old at 6 foot 1.....instead of being like you and blaming others for my unhappiness.....I read and read and read and studied and studied and studied and GOT IT DONE.

Here are my suggestions:

Please don't do my methods (not that you were doing them anyway correctly)....you are not the guy they are made for.

Stop with the conspiracy theories and figure out a way to get to where you want to be within your personal limits......10 hard sets in the squat rack is a lot better way of getting there then bitching online.

You have 4 things that make you muscularly big (in which you can then turn into "lean and big")

1) genetics (which you were not handed the best)
2) drugs (which is a personal choice)
3) training (and im talking progressive rapid muscle mass accumulation mode)
4) nutrition (putting yourself in the most anabolic state nutritionally you can)

If you don't have 1 and you aren't doing 2 YOU BETTER SURE AS HELL have your gameplan dialed in with 3 and 4
 
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What's retarded is that you think that tiny physique required a ton of gear. If it did then he was doing it all wrong... :rolleyes:

Prime definition of putting words in someone's mouth. Time for you to wake up.
 

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