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Is calorie surplus necessary to build mass on a first cycle?

7asssa7

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If someone is doing their first cycle, 300mg test per week, is it absolutely necessary to be “bulking” and eating at a big surplus?
Let’s say you are a lean 180 lbs make and start a test cycle, can you still gain good amount of muscle/size eating around maintenance?
 

jeroendebleser

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A 'big' surplus is never necessary, in fact it may even be downright counterproductive. (Losing muscle because of having to diet harder and longer, worse nutrient partitioning, ...)

Now as to your question, is a surplus necessary? I think if you want to get the most out of your cycle, ofcourse. If you just want to gain 'some' muscle, probably not.

I also fail to see what difference this would make between your first and say 10th cycle. The same principles apply still.

Are you trolling us or do you still have to do your first cycle and are you doing your homework rather extensively with all of your threads?
 

F350

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I think by only doing 300mg test up pure wasting your first cycle. That’s barely above trt for some and is trt for others.
not true. high doses are stupid to start with for beginners and completely unnecessary. Plus, hes small still. I put on over 20lbs on 250mg test starting. Its plenty of anabolics. The diet, training, and recovery are where you need to focus your efforts .
I personally think you should get your diet in check to get the most out of this. otherwise you might get 50-75% growth when you could have gotten 100%. Why would you not want to put in the work? If the asnwer is you dont feel like it or its too hard your not ready to start with anbolics yet.
 

jeroendebleser

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not true. high doses are stupid to start with for beginners and completely unnecessary. Plus, hes small still. I put on over 20lbs on 250mg test starting. Its plenty of anabolics. The diet, training, and recovery are where you need to focus your efforts .
I personally think you should get your diet in check to get the most out of this. otherwise you might get 50-75% growth when you could have gotten 100%. Why would you not want to put in the work? If the asnwer is you dont feel like it or its too hard your not ready to start with anbolics yet.
Well to his defense, he didn't say to start with high dosages. He basically only said that starting at a dose that puts a lot of people in the normal Testosterone-range might be a waste + I'll add to that that it could be downright stupid to shut yourself down for basically no reason whatsoever. It's the same as all of these people taking T3 in a dosage that their thyroid is already producing on it's own.

Maybe for you 250 Mg put you above your natural T levels. (Given your good results) But for a lot of people, it won't. Of course the only way to know this is by measuring it.

But I do agree to start off as low as possible so you don't have to use big dosages too soon in your BB journey. Just not too low neither 😀
 

USMuscle9403

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You can, but I doubt they'll be as dramatic as you'd like. What's wrong with going into a 300-500 calorie surplus like you normally would? Nitrogen retention will be up, you'll be making better use of more calories. In fact, I didn't increase calories as much as I should have on my first test only cycle and sorta regret it; they increased some, but my body seemed to be utilizing everything better, so I actually ended up getting leaner. A small surplus is going to turn into everything but fat on your first cycle provided other things are in order.
 

N.L....M.....

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not true. high doses are stupid to start with for beginners and completely unnecessary. Plus, hes small still. I put on over 20lbs on 250mg test starting. Its plenty of anabolics. The diet, training, and recovery are where you need to focus your efforts .
I personally think you should get your diet in check to get the most out of this. otherwise you might get 50-75% growth when you could have gotten 100%. Why would you not want to put in the work? If the asnwer is you dont feel like it or its too hard your not ready to start with anbolics yet.
What’s a high dose? 500-600mgs isn’t a high dose and was always standard back in the day. What’s stupid is a guy wasting his first cycle on barely above a trt dose.
I’m not sure if the rest of your reply is for me but you can take that somewhere else. You gained 20lbs of what on 200mgs? I always hear pros say they gained 20-30lbs on their first cycles on 75mg parabolan or 150-200mg test or 10mg anavar a day but they also swear they’re still running minimal doses. Maybe if they’re Ronnie.
The OP is 180lbs at what height? What body fat? 180 isn’t small for Shawn Clarida. How do you know he’s small?
 

DarrenG29

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And to the other question on dosage my first cycle was dbol 20mg did 10mg bridge cycles for months too highest I went 30mg food was 2500 pretty low but gained 14lbs without fat gain did experience horrible back head acne

now my advice would be inject and doses above trt so you benefit and get the best out of it

once you begin say 600-750 test you use that amount forever you can up the dosage but this should be a stable on any cycle why do 300mg you start with a dose that provides benefits and you stick with that forever until you decide to stop bodybuilding
 

7asssa7

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I am definitely small comparing to most guys here! And I am realistic about this.
I am 6 ft 1, 180 lbs at 9% bf. Been dieting for a long time and all natural. I now really want to increase my weight, but without getting unnecessary fat. And it will be my 1st cycle, as I have just been reading about AAS for a long time.
 

7asssa7

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I forgot to add that 300mg test is my base. I am also adding Primobolan at 400mg per week on top of the test
 

USMuscle9403

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If your measurements are accurate, you're plenty lean, dude. In fact, you sound like a naturally lean guy. I'm not gonna suggest what dosage to run, but trust me when I say that you're going to start using everything more effectively, so a small surplus, at the very least. I bet you'll find you can eat a lot more than you think without adding to fat. Water, maybe, fat, doubtful. Keep it fairly clean and have fun, don't let it go to waste
 

N.L....M.....

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I am definitely small comparing to most guys here! And I am realistic about this.
I am 6 ft 1, 180 lbs at 9% bf. Been dieting for a long time and all natural. I now really want to increase my weight, but without getting unnecessary fat. And it will be my 1st cycle, as I have just been reading about AAS for a long time.
I’m not trying to be rude but you need to eat more. If you don’t eat enough no matter what you take you’ll be wasting it. Instead of drugs find a decent local coach and invest in them and food. If you were 5’9 and 180 at 9% that’d be a completely different story. At 6’1 you’re skinny.
 

7asssa7

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If your goal is for the next year once gyms open is to grow huge then I’d do

600 test e or c
400 primo

and eat big forgot being super shredded the goal is weight muscle gain for you being 6ft 1 180lbs you can put on 30lbs and look completely different

thank you Darren! I have enough test to run at 500mg for 10 weeks.
 

7asssa7

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But is 500mg+ test really that much better than 250-300 mg for me?
 

DarrenG29

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But is 500mg+ test really that much better than 250-300 mg for me?
If your goal is to get huge then yes
If your experienced and have found trt and higher anabolics work better then 200-300 could benefit slightly above trt but personally still a dose I’d say isn’t going to get you huge

since it’s your first cycle test works and it works well it’s created many freaks and is the first hormone of choice to get the job done

500 is enough to provide the results of 210lbs 30lbs over the year
 

USMuscle9403

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But is 500mg+ test really that much better than 250-300 mg for me?

It's hard to tell unless you have baseline blood work and know how you respond to exogenous test. I'd personally agree with 300mg, myself, but 500mg is given as a starter dose as it gives room for error in guys' individual physiology. For instance, some guys get by with low trt dosages and 250mg might be a decent cycle for them; whereas another guy can take 250mg and it's barely even a replacement dosage.
 

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