• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
SPC-210x65
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
LandmarkChem Email Banner
PHARMAHGH1
Bruce Labs Store banner
gd
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
granabolic123
Blackroids-animated-optimized-number-1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
apollo
advertise1
kinglab
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Is calorie surplus necessary to build mass on a first cycle?

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
8,524
Some of you guys seriously underestimate the power of gear WHEN training and nutrition are on point. A tall skinny guy can make hella good first cycle gains on 300mg of test if his diet and training are dialed in.

But don't listen to me cause ALL PROS LIE 🙄
 

NEMSZ

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,990
I think by only doing 300mg test up pure wasting your first cycle. That’s barely above trt for some and is trt for others.
Well to his defense, he didn't say to start with high dosages. He basically only said that starting at a dose that puts a lot of people in the normal Testosterone-range might be a waste + I'll add to that that it could be downright stupid to shut yourself down for basically no reason whatsoever. It's the same as all of these people taking T3 in a dosage that their thyroid is already producing on it's own.

Maybe for you 250 Mg put you above your natural T levels. (Given your good results) But for a lot of people, it won't. Of course the only way to know this is by measuring it.

But I do agree to start off as low as possible so you don't have to use big dosages too soon in your BB journey. Just not too low neither

Umm not trying to be a dick but can either of you post bloodwork of absolutely anyone that is in “normal” TRT range (700-1,000ng/dl) on 300mg of legitimately dosed Testosterone?

I’ve never seen it yet people bring this up all the time, yet even the absolute worst metabolizers are out of range on 300mg...

If you’re in legit TRT range on 300mg of Test, give up, pick up golf or kite flying... Bodybuilding/fitness aren’t for you...
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23,775
I think by only doing 300mg test up pure wasting your first cycle. That’s barely above trt for some and is trt for others.
Well, I grew like a weed on my first injectable cycle using 200 mg/wk. I cant imagine using more than that for first cycle. I really swelled up, side effects would have been too great. The test I had was real human grade pharm stuff, so quality was really good.
 

N.L....M.....

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
959
Umm not trying to be a dick but can either of you post bloodwork of absolutely anyone that is in “normal” TRT range (700-1,000ng/dl) on 300mg of legitimately dosed Testosterone?

I’ve never seen it yet people bring this up all the time, yet even the absolute worst metabolizers are out of range on 300mg...

If you’re in legit TRT range on 300mg of Test, give up, pick up golf or kite flying... Bodybuilding/fitness aren’t for you...
When I’m off blast I will post up my bloods from 250 a week. It puts me at around 900. It’ll be about 20 weeks though.
I think Meadows is on 300 per week if I’m not mistaken.
Fortunately you’re not the gate keeper for who should do what. People are too individual for blanket statements to apply. Not everyone responds the same. Some people respond very well to everything (training, diet) but not drugs.
 

N.L....M.....

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
959
Well, I grew like a weed on my first injectable cycle using 200 mg/wk. I cant imagine using more than that for first cycle. I really swelled up, side effects would have been too great. The test I had was real human grade pharm stuff, so quality was really good.
You and BBoy are a lot more knowledgeable than I am with a ton more experience. I’ve just known average people who were pretty disappointed with running a low dose test only cycle and I think a lot can be achieved with easily controlled sides with around 500mgs test especially for a first cycle if the training and diet are decent. I know Dan Duchaine was a mad man but in his writings he said around 600-1gram. I’m not advocating that but it’s just good for thought.
Of course it could just be what was pounded in my head when I first started reading anything that had to do with this side of the sport.
I’d listen to you guys over myself and I appreciate the respectful reply.
 

SlickNYC

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
758
If someone is doing their first cycle, 300mg test per week, is it absolutely necessary to be “bulking” and eating at a big surplus?
Let’s say you are a lean 180 lbs make and start a test cycle, can you still gain good amount of muscle/size eating around maintenance?
I would point out a few things here. If you are a lean 180 in my opinion the best approach would be -as another member pointed out- eat over maintenance and keep it clean. Bring it’s your first cycle you are definitely going to put in size. Anyone looking to put in serious muscle mass needs to eat at a decent surplus. But the thing is if you eat at a bit of a surplus - the steroids will help with building the muscle. You’re muscles themselves get denser and more developed. This alone will make you look much bigger than you were prior without going crazy with the caloric intake. Keep in mind that with steroids and especially testosterone - you will add some water weight- which if you are in a surplus - can really make you look puffy and I’m not sure if that’s what you are trying to achieve. Guys that go that route- like I did when I was younger- need to diet afterwards with a cutting stack. What’s you age btw?
 

NEMSZ

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,990
When I’m off blast I will post up my bloods from 250 a week. It puts me at around 900. It’ll be about 20 weeks though.
I think Meadows is on 300 per week if I’m not mistaken.
Fortunately you’re not the gate keeper for who should do what. People are too individual for blanket statements to apply. Not everyone responds the same. Some people respond very well to everything (training, diet) but not drugs.

Im not saying I’m a gate keeper for anything, and people keep saying “everyone is too individual” but I have yet to see someone on 300mg of pharmaceutical testosterone have blood levels anywhere near normal ranges...

So where is the proof of this? Where is your 250mg test from? A sponsor or pharmacy?

John Meadows used to cruise on 300mg of Test, yes, but a cruise and being in TRT range are 2 completely different things, he never said his levels were in normal TRT range on 300mg...

You can do whatever you want, I’m not saying anything against any of it.. Your “TRT” can be 5G of Test a week if you want, your body, not mine.. But to you and the select few other people that like to think everyone is an individual and unique little snowflake, just prove it, show some bloods from a reputable source on 300mg+ of pharmaceutical testosterone within normal TRT ranges..

Otherwise it’s all speculation and justifying using higher doses, which, who cares.. Use what you want. But don’t spread misinformation...
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23,775
You and BBoy are a lot more knowledgeable than I am with a ton more experience. I’ve just known average people who were pretty disappointed with running a low dose test only cycle and I think a lot can be achieved with easily controlled sides with around 500mgs test especially for a first cycle if the training and diet are decent. I know Dan Duchaine was a mad man but in his writings he said around 600-1gram. I’m not advocating that but it’s just good for thought.
Of course it could just be what was pounded in my head when I first started reading anything that had to do with this side of the sport.
I’d listen to you guys over myself and I appreciate the respectful reply.
For me at least, being 28 years old and doing my first real cycle, 200 mg almost seemed Iike too much at the time. I never had that experience again. It was human grade script stuff, cant remember brand. I retained a lot of water. I made great strength gains and put on about 20 pounds in about 10 weeks. Some of that of course was water, but the gains were better than some high dose cycles I ran years later.

I think its dangerous and unnecessary to run more than that for the first cycle, unless the gear is under dosed. That was my personal experience.

I had done dianabol back in the late 80s, but then nothing until 1998. So my body was clean for about 10 years.
 

N.L....M.....

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
959
Im not saying I’m a gate keeper for anything, and people keep saying “everyone is too individual” but I have yet to see someone on 300mg of pharmaceutical testosterone have blood levels anywhere near normal ranges...

So where is the proof of this? Where is your 250mg test from? A sponsor or pharmacy?

John Meadows used to cruise on 300mg of Test, yes, but a cruise and being in TRT range are 2 completely different things, he never said his levels were in normal TRT range on 300mg...

You can do whatever you want, I’m not saying anything against any of it.. Your “TRT” can be 5G of Test a week if you want, your body, not mine.. But to you and the select few other people that like to think everyone is an individual and unique little snowflake, just prove it, show some bloods from a reputable source on 300mg+ of pharmaceutical testosterone within normal TRT ranges..

Otherwise it’s all speculation and justifying using higher doses, which, who cares.. Use what you want. But don’t spread misinformation...
My trt comes from my clinic it’s prescribed. I’m not spreading misinformation. Like I said I’ll provide bloods after my blast. How do you know what people run or are prescribed? Are you a doctor or are you just parroting stuff? How about you slow your fucking know it all roll. 500mg ive never heard of as high dosage cycle . That’s been a common starting point for a very long time. I know it’s easy to be a dick on the internet do have at it. But the only one who is spreading nonsense is you
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23,775
Im not saying I’m a gate keeper for anything, and people keep saying “everyone is too individual” but I have yet to see someone on 300mg of pharmaceutical testosterone have blood levels anywhere near normal ranges...

So where is the proof of this? Where is your 250mg test from? A sponsor or pharmacy?

John Meadows used to cruise on 300mg of Test, yes, but a cruise and being in TRT range are 2 completely different things, he never said his levels were in normal TRT range on 300mg...

You can do whatever you want, I’m not saying anything against any of it.. Your “TRT” can be 5G of Test a week if you want, your body, not mine.. But to you and the select few other people that like to think everyone is an individual and unique little snowflake, just prove it, show some bloods from a reputable source on 300mg+ of pharmaceutical testosterone within normal TRT ranges..

Otherwise it’s all speculation and justifying using higher doses, which, who cares.. Use what you want. But don’t spread misinformation...
I agree 100%. Im at a total test level of 850 to 900 on just 100 mg/week on my script. That's 2 days after injection. Once a week. There will be variability in people, but not enough to require someone to take 2 to 3x that to reach the same level. Other meds aren't Iike that either.
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23,775
My trt comes from my clinic it’s prescribed. I’m not spreading misinformation. Like I said I’ll provide bloods after my blast. How do you know what people run or are prescribed? Are you a doctor or are you just parroting stuff? How about you slow your fucking know it all roll. 500mg ive never heard of as high dosage cycle . That’s been a common starting point for a very long time. I know it’s easy to be a dick on the internet do have at it. But the only one who is spreading nonsense is you
What brand are you given? When you had a level of just 900 on 250mg/wk, were you injecting once a week like me? How long after injection was the blood drawn? I could see a level of 900 about 6 or 7 days after injection perhaps. It peaks early. I always figured the cypionate Ester would peak later, but it seems to peak around 24 to 48 hrs after injection.
 

NEMSZ

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,990
My trt comes from my clinic it’s prescribed. I’m not spreading misinformation. Like I said I’ll provide bloods after my blast. How do you know what people run or are prescribed? Are you a doctor or are you just parroting stuff? How about you slow your fucking know it all roll. 500mg ive never heard of as high dosage cycle . That’s been a common starting point for a very long time. I know it’s easy to be a dick on the internet do have at it. But the only one who is spreading nonsense is you

Like I said, show your own or you’re more than welcome to scour the entire internet for anyone reputable who’s posted bloodwork on 300mg Test and stayed in normal TRT range... I mean, if it’s so common then there must be at least ONE example you can show? I’ll wait....

I’m not a doctor but I have been on the forums (this one and others) for about 14 years now and have seen tons of people’s Test levels and I’ve never seen 300mg of pharmaceutical Test give anyone anywhere near normal levels... Not only that but there’s tons of information from tons of doctors/TRT specialists and I’ve never heard of one talking about 300+mg putting someone in normal range..

What I have seen quite a few times is someone thinks they’re taking 300mg and turns out their gear is severely underdosed.. And I’ve even seen some TRT docs have guys claim that 200mg Test still keeps them at lower levels/range, until they actually made the person come in to receive their injections at the clinic/office, and turns out, they were just trying to get a higher dose... Go figure...

I haven’t mentioned 500mg or it being a high dose or low dose or anything.. Why you even brought that up, not sure.. I’m simply discussing that 300mg of legitimate pharmaceutical Testosterone will put absolutely anyone over the range... Don’t care how unique you think you are...
 

N.L....M.....

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
959
What brand are you given? When you had a level of just 900 on 250mg/wk, were you injecting once a week like me? How long after injection was the blood drawn? I could see a level of 900 about 6 or 7 days after injection perhaps. It peaks early. I always figured the cypionate Ester would peak later, but it seems to peak around 24 to 48 hrs after injection.
Watson test cyp. Shots 125mg Monday and Friday. Bloods drawn on Thursdays.
 

SlickNYC

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
758
Like I said, show your own or you’re more than welcome to scour the entire internet for anyone reputable who’s posted bloodwork on 300mg Test and stayed in normal TRT range... I mean, if it’s so common then there must be at least ONE example you can show? I’ll wait....

I’m not a doctor but I have been on the forums (this one and others) for about 14 years now and have seen tons of people’s Test levels and I’ve never seen 300mg of pharmaceutical Test give anyone anywhere near normal levels... Not only that but there’s tons of information from tons of doctors/TRT specialists and I’ve never heard of one talking about 300+mg putting someone in normal range..

What I have seen quite a few times is someone thinks they’re taking 300mg and turns out their gear is severely underdosed.. And I’ve even seen some TRT docs have guys claim that 200mg Test still keeps them at lower levels/range, until they actually made the person come in to receive their injections at the clinic/office, and turns out, they were just trying to get a higher dose... Go figure...

I haven’t mentioned 500mg or it being a high dose or low dose or anything.. Why you even brought that up, not sure.. I’m simply discussing that 300mg of legitimate pharmaceutical Testosterone will put absolutely anyone over the range... Don’t care how unique you think you are...
Election frequency and how long after injection can also affect the levels
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23,775
Watson test cyp. Shots 125mg Monday and Friday. Bloods drawn on Thursdays.
Then you are one kind of anomaly. That is pretty crazy. Youre on more than 2x what I am and your level is the same as mine two days after taking 100 mg. Having it split into two doses keeps that peak down some for sure, but it should still be higher than that. I wonder about your free test. The biweekly shots will keep your level up higher all week long, wheras with mine it drops. Next time try to get the blood work done 1 or 2 days after injection when it peaks.
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
8,524
You and BBoy are a lot more knowledgeable than I am with a ton more experience. I’ve just known average people who were pretty disappointed with running a low dose test only cycle and I think a lot can be achieved with easily controlled sides with around 500mgs test especially for a first cycle if the training and diet are decent. I know Dan Duchaine was a mad man but in his writings he said around 600-1gram. I’m not advocating that but it’s just good for thought.
Of course it could just be what was pounded in my head when I first started reading anything that had to do with this side of the sport.
I’d listen to you guys over myself and I appreciate the respectful reply.
I personally ran 500mg of test my first cycle, along with deca and dbol but I was a very very advanced trainee, and was almost 30yrs old before I did my first cycle.

The average newbie that is disappointed with their first cycle gains off 300mg of test most likely dont train and eat worth a shit, I see it WAAAAYYYY to often.
 

TheOtherOne55

Sponsor Rep
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
3,777
Some of you guys seriously underestimate the power of gear WHEN training and nutrition are on point. A tall skinny guy can make hella good first cycle gains on 300mg of test if his diet and training are dialed in.

But don't listen to me cause ALL PROS LIE
Its nothing to do with you....its everything to do with 7assa...

i would be willing to bet MY LIFE that his training and nutrition are not on point and dialed in.
 

TheOtherOne55

Sponsor Rep
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
3,777
Literally, there is no point in arguing over 300 or 500.

Let's be 1000% honest here. ANYONE new to this forum asking about their first cycle has a VERY HIGH chance of not having their diet and training lined up. That's a fact. So please let's stop assuming this guy is going to grow like a weed (or B-Boy) from 250mgs. He might get strong....he might get fat....he might not even feel it, but he is not putting on straight muscle like he WOULD HAVE if that shit were lined up. So when someone on here NLM suggests maybe 500, he is doing so so that this person can FEEL like what being on is.

99.9% of people's first 3 gear cycles EVER are fucked up by having a lazy diet and/or training like a pussy, that's a fact. So lets stop discussing it. Now the discussion becomes, do we tell people to line their diet/training up?? (everyone will always reply that they know how to eat and/or train) or do we tell them to do a slightly higher dosage? Who knows

I personally, ran 500mgs as my first cycle. ME...i was not eating great at the time. But I lost BF and got strong as fuck.
I personally would also never tell someone to run 2 different drugs on a first cycle. Primo? fuck no, get outa here with that.
Try between 300-600mgs of test and work hard.
 

pahlevan

Active member
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
631
Why not try the 300 test and see what gains you make, and if not, up it. Also, I know many new users dont like daily or EOD Injections. But using prop tends to give most less sides such as acne, Estrogen etc..
You can easily pre-fill Slin pins and use it as you need. In case of negative effects it also clears you system fast. you can always ad in some anavar or winstrol in there too.
 

j4ever

Verified Customer
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,173
Watson test cyp. Shots 125mg Monday and Friday. Bloods drawn on Thursdays.

damn man just to give you a comparison, i was on 160 mg a week, pinning 80 mg Sun morn and wed evening, blood work done late in the day on wed usually around 4pm, put my total at 1215, you are burning thru that shit if you are at 900 on 250.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Total page views
510,165,646
Threads
125,174
Messages
2,431,396
Members
156,029
Latest member
jaypeter
Top