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Is calorie surplus necessary to build mass on a first cycle?

maldorf

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damn man just to give you a comparison, i was on 160 mg a week, pinning 80 mg Sun morn and wed evening, blood work done late in the day on wed usually around 4pm, put my total at 1215, you are burning thru that shit if you are at 900 on 250.
Yeah, the level you get is much like mine. I take 100 mg in one shot on Sundays and by Tuesday my level is around 900 or so.
 

N.L....M.....

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damn man just to give you a comparison, i was on 160 mg a week, pinning 80 mg Sun morn and wed evening, blood work done late in the day on wed usually around 4pm, put my total at 1215, you are burning thru that shit if you are at 900 on 250.
Everyone responds and metabolizes everything differently. Maybe I am a strange one lol but the dr at my clinic doesn’t seem surprised or act like it’s all that uncommon. Honestly everyone I know that goes there are on between 200-250 a week.
It’s not just steroids when I used to party back in the day I would metabolize almost everything crazy fast
 

juggy38

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Jesus Christ guys. We are dick whacking each other about 300 or 500mg test and the main issue is this guy not wanting to push calories because of IG “ready” new age fitness guys.

Let me tell you something. If you want to add size, REAL size that makes a visual difference with you clothes ON...you have to get a little fluffy. You have to fucking eat. I’m not pushing GOMAD diets and becoming lee priest fat as fuck....but eat to where the scale is moving 1-2lbs a week. EVERY WEEK.

once your up 20lbs, hold that weight. Cutting off fat is easy (until 10% then it’s a bitch). You can always be beach ready in 8-10 weeks

you know why I’m thicker than most at my gym? Because they didn’t force feed themselves to 245lbs with cafeteria food and Arby’s roast beefs. So when I came down to 220 in my late 20s, I looked like a brick shithouse with abs.
 

N.L....M.....

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Jesus Christ guys. We are dick whacking each other about 300 or 500mg test and the main issue is this guy not wanting to push calories because of IG “ready” new age fitness guys.

Let me tell you something. If you want to add size, REAL size that makes a visual difference with you clothes ON...you have to get a little fluffy. You have to fucking eat. I’m not pushing GOMAD diets and becoming lee priest fat as fuck....but eat to where the scale is moving 1-2lbs a week. EVERY WEEK.

once your up 20lbs, hold that weight. Cutting off fat is easy (until 10% then it’s a bitch). You can always be beach ready in 8-10 weeks

you know why I’m thicker than most at my gym? Because they didn’t force feed themselves to 245lbs with cafeteria food and Arby’s roast beefs. So when I came down to 220 in my late 20s, I looked like a brick shithouse with abs.
Damn it. I’m dieting right now and you’ve got me looking at my calories to see how I can fit in Arby’s lol
 

SlickNYC

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Everyone responds and metabolizes everything differently. Maybe I am a strange one lol but the dr at my clinic doesn’t seem surprised or act like it’s all that uncommon. Honestly everyone I know that goes there are on between 200-250 a week.
It’s not just steroids when I used to party back in the day I would metabolize almost everything crazy fast
Bingo.
 

Fit2Serve

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OP, i wouldnt consider AAS until you are 6'1" and 200lbs. i can get there. u sound under fed.
if u eat like ya should and u seem naturally lean i think you will have lean gains and get where ya want.
then like all of us wont be satisfied and then perfect time to hit the sauce cuz u got the eating down.
-F
 

aphextwin

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I used to be the type of guy who would wouldn’t recommend anything less on 500 mgs a week but that’s an old school thought, and I was wrong.

As others have stated, if you’re training, eating right, and getting proper rest you should grow just fine on 300 mgs a week. Another thing is if you have properly dosed gear.
 

totalrecomp

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this will surprise you, my friend, because in my opinion, the optimum for the first cycle is 300-500mg (depending on the weight and level of body fat)

Contrary to appearances, I am not a supporter of large doses and I do not recommend them to others
LIAR! How do I know????????? A well-known member told me all BB's lie. LOL

J/K brother I could not resist.;)


OP get that "have to stay ultra-lean" nonsense out of your head as it will hold you back long-term as others have said. Assuming OP is in this for the long haul I think it makes fuck all difference ten years from now whether he starts with 200 or 500 or even 1000. A decade of cycles/gear/training and eating will blur any difference a first cycle dosage makes.

I like the 300mg prop to start and re-asses after 4-6 weeks, adjust up/down if needed.
 

jeroendebleser

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Umm not trying to be a dick but can either of you post bloodwork of absolutely anyone that is in “normal” TRT range (700-1,000ng/dl) on 300mg of legitimately dosed Testosterone?

I’ve never seen it yet people bring this up all the time, yet even the absolute worst metabolizers are out of range on 300mg...

If you’re in legit TRT range on 300mg of Test, give up, pick up golf or kite flying... Bodybuilding/fitness aren’t for you...
You aren't being a dick, this is a discussion forum and I welcome differing opinions/critique. It's only when you think you already know it all that you stop learning.

Ontopic: Even though I agree with you that it's unlikely that 300 Mg Test would put someone in the natural range still, I have seen people claim they needed 300 Mg a week for their TRT. Sometimes bloodwork was provided, sometimes it wasn't.

But we only know if measuring is done and even then you have to count on people being truthful with their reports of it.

Now the OP apparently is also going to add 400 Mg of Primo so this discussion becomes obsolete then since he'll certainly be above his natural T-levels on that.

OP: you need to mention everything you're going to do from the get go 😉
 

Kaladryn

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I think by only doing 300mg test up pure wasting your first cycle. That’s barely above trt for some and is trt for others.
TRT is about 100mg/week, it's not really different for everyone, it's within 10-20%, there is a megastudy on TRT and there are no crazy outliers, none, this is because it comes down to simple chemistry.

I made HUGE gains on my first couple cycles of 200mg/week.
 

7asssa7

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But then, how many more gains will 500 mg test per week give vs. 250mg?
 

maldorf

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But then, how many more gains will 500 mg test per week give vs. 250mg?
Some guys I have read on here think that they gained less on more because the sides were too great and they didnt feel well. if you cant train right and eat right then it is all pointless. Guys starting out can do great on just 200 mg/wk. I know because I did it. I had been training with weights seriously for about 12 years though. Some guys seem to start in heavy with the hormones right away. BBoy made the point that if your training and diet isnt right then you wont make the gains. Then guys can try taking higher doses to make up for it. I think that works to a certain point.

If you start out at 500 mg/wk, within a year you will be pushing 1g/wk. Where does that leave you in another 5 or 10 years? The dose creeps up every year.

Its an extreme example, but do you really want to end up like Dallas Mccarver dying at such a young age.
 

totalrecomp

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Some guys I have read on here think that they gained less on more because the sides were too great and they didnt feel well. if you cant train right and eat right then it is all pointless. Guys starting out can do great on just 200 mg/wk. I know because I did it. I had been training with weights seriously for about 12 years though. Some guys seem to start in heavy with the hormones right away. BBoy made the point that if your training and diet isnt right then you wont make the gains. Then guys can try taking higher doses to make up for it. I think that works to a certain point.

If you start out at 500 mg/wk, within a year you will be pushing 1g/wk. Where does that leave you in another 5 or 10 years? The dose creeps up every year.

Its an extreme example, but do you really want to end up like Dallas Mccarver dying at such a young age.

I will say again that 10 years down the road ASSUMING OP keeps cycling/juicing and without getting carried away the results of the first cycle of 250 vs 500 will be undistinguishable.
 

DarrenG29

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We also need to factor in does he have great genetics or average there’s plenty who run anabolics 6-8 years but never reach top level and basically stay around the same weight minus 20lbs or so

some respond some do not.
 

juggy38

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this will surprise you, my friend, because in my opinion, the optimum for the first cycle is 300-500mg (depending on the weight and level of body fat)

Contrary to appearances, I am not a supporter of large doses and I do not recommend them to others

yea bud that was tongue in cheek, lots of sarcasm lol
 

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