Is hcg worth it during cycle?

[LATS]

I know it's been discussed before. But there is always new info.. I remember palumbo saying it wasn't worth it.. He said " it's like pissing on a forest fire.. What's the point?" .. It would seem that it would cause a boost in estrogen levels which would need to be watched.. But many trt dr claim that test taken after a while diminishes sex drive and sensitivity.. I can acclaim to this even while watching estro levels.. So does anyone use it regular and notice any difference on cycle..???

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

(raises hand) i have for years and use it regularly year round at 250-500ius 2 (mostly 3 times a week) on off sub Q shot days....and I personally feel its a gamechanger. I should not hold this kind of muscle mass on the minimal TRT dosages I do .....besides keeping me as normalized (libido, etc) as I can possibly feel. I take exemestane at 12.5mg a day and my estradiol always comes back between 24 and 34 via bloodwork. But hey i was the guy back in 1999 onward getting in huge online arguments about sending intermittent signals to the HPTA (which i named "blasting" and then "cruising"<signals) so you know how I feel about this subject. I think its so highly important to not have a "driven into dormancy" HPTA for injury sake <---there is something very important about endogenous testosterone, vs exogenous testosterone as it pertains to joint health/integrity. Ive seen time and time again people who destroy their HPTA get massive injuries, life changing muscle tears, tremendous joint problems etc. Every single one of my former trainees have or will be able to have kids....and its not a problem....I chalk that up to blaring in their head how important it is to not let the HPTA get driven into a nonfuctioning state.

Just had a pro bodybuilder friend ask me about my protocol to help his pro bodybuilder friends wife get pregnant......boom....I think thats about 19 for 19 now on my docket. I guarantee you that if you get a system going with HCG youll be amazed at how little testosterone you have to use per week to keep your size lats

 

[BradScott]

I have never been on a cycle, only TRT since being diagnosed with hypogonadism thirteen years ago. I never used steroids or other PED's. I am 36 years old now and my wife and I recently married and are trying to have kids.

At first my doc took me off T, which I take for 100 mg per week, and did HCG mono therapy for 9000 IU per week (3000 IU three times per week). I did that for three months. That alone did not put my T in the mid to high normal range I feel best at; it only brought my T into the 300's.

So being I did not want to feel like crap last summer, my doc put me on 100 mg T as usual with 500 IU twice per week. Then a semen analysis showed low sperm count. So he upped my HCG dose (keeping T at 100 mg per week) to 1000 IU three times per week. I just tested for estradiol and T three days ago. We will see where my levels are at and test sperm count again in a few months.

I feel GREAT on TRT with HCG added in. It does wonders for sexual well being for me and the thrice weekly dose keeps my total T pretty steady, I believe.

HCG while on TRT maintains intratesticular T and fertility or can be used in higher doses, as I am doing for spermatogenesis. So I believe Palumbo and Piana have no idea what the hell they're talking about in regards to HCG while taking T for bodybuilding or TRT.

Of course it would be "pissing on a forest" if some guy does not give a rat's ass about testicular size and fertility and just wants to get big. For those of us who use T ONLY as medicine and want to impregnate wives and have kids, then it is clearly not useless.

Piana and Palumbo are not doctors or pharmacists. They are both bodybuilders and ones writes diets and runs a website.

All that I do is under the supervision and prescription of my urologist, who is also fellow of the American Fertility Society. I think he knows more than Palumbo.

 

[LATS]

Amen Dante.. Thanks.. so you think it's a must even on 500mgs ( example) of test?

 

[BradScott]

It would be a must if you want to maintain some intratesticular testosterone. But the more T you take over doses of what provides normal levels (500 is 2.5 to 5 times clinical doses), the more you suppress the pituitary and testes generally.

 

[Carnivore7]

I've used it post cycle as part of a restart,but otherwise never,and I think the whole ya but my nuts are shrinking yhingbis crap.Save it for post cycle recovery.

 

[BradScott]

I've used it post cycle as part of a restart,but otherwise never,and I think the whole ya but my nuts are shrinking yhingbis crap.Save it for post cycle recovery.

There are guys on TRT for life who have fertility concerns and actually, the l longer one's pituitary and testes are suppressed, the harder it is for recovery and it can take very hefty HCG and clomid doses to get things running again and for spermatogenesis.

 

[BradScott]

(raises hand) i have for years and use it regularly year round at 250-500ius 2 (mostly 3 times a week) on off sub Q shot days....and I personally feel its a gamechanger. I should not hold this kind of muscle mass on the minimal TRT dosages I do .....besides keeping me as normalized (libido, etc) as I can possibly feel. I take exemestane at 12.5mg a day and my estradiol always comes back between 24 and 34 via bloodwork. But hey i was the guy back in 1999 onward getting in huge online arguments about sending intermittent signals to the HPTA (which i named "blasting" and then "cruising"<signals) so you know how I feel about this subject. I think its so highly important to not have a "driven into dormancy" HPTA for injury sake <---there is something very important about endogenous testosterone, vs exogenous testosterone as it pertains to joint health/integrity. Ive seen time and time again people who destroy their HPTA get massive injuries, life changing muscle tears, tremendous joint problems etc. Every single one of my former trainees have or will be able to have kids....and its not a problem....I chalk that up to blaring in their head how important it is to not let the HPTA get driven into a nonfuctioning state.

Just had a pro bodybuilder friend ask me about my protocol to help his pro bodybuilder friends wife get pregnant......boom....I think thats about 19 for 19 now on my docket. I guarantee you that if you get a system going with HCG youll be amazed at how little testosterone you have to use per week to keep your size lats

How much T do you use per week for HRT if you don't mind me asking. 100 mg per week keeps me in the 700's to 800's range.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

How much T do you use per week for HRT if you don't mind me asking. 100 mg per week keeps me in the 700's to 800's range.

20-30ius sub Q every other day or 3 times a week
so 40-60mg sub q every other day = 120-180mg a week
Most of the time 30ius--i skip days alot because im lazy so i say 180mg a week but if we wanted to get really technical and i did it every other day over 8 days then 210mg a week...but i usually skip a day every week so it truly comes out to 3x a week

 

[LATS]

I know some in the past recommended doing hcg for 3 weeks then coming off.. But lately I've been seeing more of the injection of hcg three times a week at lower dosage ( say 250 ius) the whole time which would make more along the lines of what you were saying Dante.. I do agree that there has to be a difference in how the body sees endo vs exog test based on how many guys get on inject test for hrt and see little to no improve in sex life or performance..

 

[BradScott]

I don't know where this recommendation for coming off, as if it is necessary to come off, came from.

My doc has had some guys on relatively high dose HCG mono therapy for YEARS with no ill effects. This probably does not go for everyone but it shows that some do just fine.

He even has had some guys go up with mono therapy to 5000 IU every other day, which would be 15,000 to 20,000 IU HCG per week, for fertility. He said there has not been one documented case of testicular shutdown from overstimulation from HCG in peer-reviewed literature.

 

[buck]

HCG does more then just keep your testies big. it keeps the P450 pathway open which does a few things. here is some thing i found interesting about that. it helps clear cholesterol out of the system and push it down stream for other uses.
hCG use and the P450 cytochrome:

Firstly a little basic info on the P450 enzyme and why hCG use on cycle is extremely beneficial. The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism. Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.

The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes, this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones. This is a good reason to use hCG. In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized, which in turn increases protein dynamics.

Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits, one of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed, it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol, so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.

 

[Swifto]

I know some in the past recommended doing hcg for 3 weeks then coming off.. But lately I've been seeing more of the injection of hcg three times a week at lower dosage ( say 250 ius) the whole time which would make more along the lines of what you were saying Dante.. I do agree that there has to be a difference in how the body sees endo vs exog test based on how many guys get on inject test for hrt and see little to no improve in sex life or performance..

You shouldn't be using HCG more than every other day.

Leydig cell refraction will stop testosterone raising more and you'll just be wasting it.

I wrote this years ago and its still correct: **broken link removed**

 

[finephysique]

Does clomid have any similar benefits whilst using test or is it a waste while on?

I have to say when I use hcg on cycle I feel ten times better than when I don't

 

[LATS]

You shouldn't be using HCG more than every other day.

Leydig cell refraction will stop testosterone raising more and you'll just be wasting it.

I wrote this years ago and its still correct: **broken link removed**

Swifto.. What's your opinion on starting hcg while being on cycle for a while? And does the dose of hcg need to be any different on 500 mgs of test vesus 200 mgs of test.. I would assume not but curious as to your opinion..

 

[Omnapharm]

BradScott, nice input. I couldn't agree more.

 

[gulfcoast]

I've tried the every week and end of month route with HCG and feel about the same on either method.
Trying to pin AAS, GH, Peps and Slin all week is already a pain wout adding something else. I just pin 500iu of HCG the last 5 days of every month.

 

[BradScott]

BradScott, nice input. I couldn't agree more.

Thanks!

 

[buck]

here is a study that seems to show 250 iu's every other day would bring AS users back to a normal range.
Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Swifto]

Swifto.. What's your opinion on starting hcg while being on cycle for a while? And does the dose of hcg need to be any different on 500 mgs of test vesus 200 mgs of test.. I would assume not but curious as to your opinion..

You can use it throughout your cycle from the start, or after week 2 or 3.

If you're using it throughout the cycle, then watch oestrogen levels, as they can build.

Right now, I tend to use it 3-4x per year at a large dose for 4-5 shots and thats it. Something like 1000-1,500ius - but throughout is a better protocol IMO, like what Dante is doing (injecting on days off of HRT dosing).

Trial and error and bloodwork should determine what works for you.