Is this 6 GRAMS of AAS 50 ius GH and 300 units of insulin?

[LATS]

Maybe they left because they were expected to do certain things they weren’t comfortable with, if you know what I mean. Nothing is free…

Yep.. thats the point of my post.. if a ifbb pro left because he just wasn't comfortable that's something to consider

 

[luki7788]

If you look at guys like a seasoned pro Reagan who literally got the hell out of dodge and hopped a plane out of there along with a few others you can see they are not scared of loading product.. and food.. enough so that a ifbb pro decided that's enough after 4 weeks left.. so there is no doubt they can be extreme.. but they also have breon visit there too and I'm sure he isn't pushed too hard in that he is in classic and doesn't need the size.. but if you willing to do what's needed
As for health markers.. from what I was told first hand is that many do take their health markers serious but... its after the fact.. its after a show and they try and bring everything in line.. but there is no way when your blasting grams that the markers can be perfect.. the cycle I was just told by a 212 athlete of that area is 1500 test sust.. 800 eq.. 600 mast enth.. 300 npp.. orals like anadrol are cycle in and out every 6 weeks ( but didn't give amount).. 10 to 15 hgh.. and slin rotated in and out every 4 weeks ( no amount given or how often).. this is off season and even then t4 t3 and other ancillary products are in the mix.. he did say that any health markers are addressed " with meds" when they are found.. now remember this is a 212 competitor.. is this what Oxygen recommends ? Maybe not but he said it was a fairly common cycle for someone his size.. he said the open guys can get a bit more extreme..
The training he said ( which is also evident on their instagram pages etc) is very high volume.. many exercises and sets per muscle group.. if you go to one well known 212 Adel in the area ( very nice guy by the way and just did his first 212 pro show) he does upward of 6 to 7 exercises per group and 4 to 5 sets per exercise.. not all to failure of course but alot of pumping).. you see a similar pattern with alot of them..
But they also adhere to very strict food intake.. one great analogy I heard is they are like Nascar.. their body is the car.. they only use the best products in their car and the best fuel.. they love and live for the sport.. its taken very serious.. ask Regan and others who venture there.

The cycle you described is actually very similar to what my friend was given when he worked with Ahmed Askar - that was during his off-season.

It was around 1.5 g of test, 600 mg primo, 600 mg NPP, 600 mg EQ
Plus Anadrol 50 or 100 mg on training days, depending on what you can tolerate.
Two aromatase inhibitors Arimidex and Aromasin.
About 10–15 IU of growth hormone daily. No insulin.

Tons of food, and a cheat meal like McDonald’s on top.

So yeah exactly like you said that’s standard practice for them.

 

[Massive G]

I don't know if they were fucking with me but in 2004 was dining with 2 top pros both sitting there in front of me and my boy at 320. They asked me what I thought the pros took and we both replied 2 g a week. They both laughed and said triple it! No blinking of the eyes nothing. One is dead now for a bit.
Truth is extremes are everywhere and it's probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[LATS]

The cycle you described is actually very similar to what my friend was given when he worked with Ahmed Askar - that was during his off-season.

It was around 1.5 g of test, 600 mg primo, 600 mg NPP, 600 mg EQ
Plus Anadrol 50 or 100 mg on training days, depending on what you can tolerate.
Two aromatase inhibitors Arimidex and Aromasin.
About 10–15 IU of growth hormone daily. No insulin.

Tons of food, and a cheat meal like McDonald’s on top.

So yeah exactly like you said that’s standard practice for them.

Yeah.. I just checked my old notes from a few years ago from a " now" retired pro there and what he said was common.. it is very similar to what we both said.. he relied heavily on eq as his " grower".. ill print it when I get home ..

 

[kadafi2]

@LATS
@luki7788

Thank you so much for sharing such interesting facts. Access to cycles, even for "lesser" professionals – around 225 – isn't knowledge for everyone. Because they probably loaded more into something like Big Rami or Roelle.

Overall, the cycle looks very good (testosterone and a derivative – EQ, DHT like Masteron or Primo, and NPP as 19Nor) and isn't the slightest bit excessive for a professional. In fact, the doses are just right – it'll be over 3 grams of AAS, but I'm wondering:

1) there's no prolactin inhibitor; I suspect Cabaser, etc., is added based on well-being and blood results;
2) they don't rely on MENT during the growth phase, sticking with classic NPP;
3) they don't use any type of IGF-1;
4) there's no insulin with – as you wrote – huge amounts of food.
5) A daily cheat meal? That's interesting.

I understand that substances like trenbolone, winstrol, halotestin, and bulking agents like Mediphorm are only used during the preparation phase.

Btw, @LATS, Can you tell us which of the 212 pros is taking these crazy 9-gram doses? Or at least give us a clue as to who it might be

 

[Mufasa123]

I don't know if they were fucking with me but in 2004 was dining with 2 top pros both sitting there in front of me and my boy at 320. They asked me what I thought the pros took and we both replied 2 g a week. They both laughed and said triple it! No blinking of the eyes nothing. One is dead now for a bit.
Truth is extremes are everywhere and it's probably somewhere in the middle.

Probably not messing with you. Pretty much dead on 90s open class pro I knew. From what I gathered he wasn't an outlier at that level, either low or high.

 

[Sectør]

I’ve heard a lot about the infamous oxygen gym and the freaks they’ve churned out, but don’t know anyone that’s actually been on their programs

Do they basically “select” a group of people that they feel have the genetics in the sport, and you have to follow their extreme protocols or they kick you out of the program?

I heard they even have hyperbaric oxygen chambers over there and when the athletes aren’t eating or training they’re basically sleeping until it’s time to eat or train again

 

[KingOfSushi]

The cycle you described is actually very similar to what my friend was given when he worked with Ahmed Askar - that was during his off-season.

It was around 1.5 g of test, 600 mg primo, 600 mg NPP, 600 mg EQ
Plus Anadrol 50 or 100 mg on training days, depending on what you can tolerate.
Two aromatase inhibitors Arimidex and Aromasin.
About 10–15 IU of growth hormone daily. No insulin.

Tons of food, and a cheat meal like McDonald’s on top.

So yeah exactly like you said that’s standard practice for them.

The daily McDonald’s seems like the dumbest part of it to me honestly lol. And of course I highly doubt the two AIs are necessary.

Did he give any details beyond “tons of food” on the diet?

 

[KingOfSushi]

2) they don't rely on MENT during the growth phase, sticking with classic NPP;

What are you wondering about this?

 

[luki7788]

The daily McDonald’s seems like the dumbest part of it to me honestly lol. And of course I highly doubt the two AIs are necessary.

Did he give any details beyond “tons of food” on the diet?

Something like 7 meals of 50g protein + 100-150g carbs each, and on most days at the end of the day as the 8th McDonald's meal something like 2-3 burgers + 2-3 portions of fries lol

 

[kadafi2]

What are you wondering about this?

Some people like ment so much—from what I've read—that they don't want to go back to deca/npp. At Oxygen, they focus on the classics and don't mess around. I don't know, maybe I thought they'd try to come up with something different, a different approach, a modern one? It just turns out that top trainers don't recommend ment; they have to have a reason.

 

[Sectør]

Some people like ment so much—from what I've read—that they don't want to go back to deca/npp. At Oxygen, they focus on the classics and don't mess around. I don't know, maybe I thought they'd try to come up with something different, a different approach, a modern one? It just turns out that top trainers don't recommend ment; they have to have a reason.

Because test/deca (NPP)/eq work. It’s one of the best mass building stacks out there with decades of use and data behind it. They don’t really need to reinvent the wheel.

Plus ment is a lot trickier to manage with the methylated estrogen, probably wouldn’t stack too great with a 19 nor. I mean you theoretically could, but the estrogen and prolactin management would probably be a pain, especially with high test

 

[KingOfSushi]

I don't know, maybe I thought they'd try to come up with something different, a different approach, a modern one

I would say likely because Nandralone still works. Some like ment, but it seems to be more side effect prone and difficult to manage for most.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Because test/deca (NPP)/eq work. It’s one of the best mass building stacks out there with decades of use and data behind it. They don’t really need to reinvent the wheel.

Plus ment is a lot trickier to manage with the methylated estrogen, probably wouldn’t stack too great with a 19 nor. I mean you theoretically could, but the estrogen and prolactin management would probably be a pain, especially with high test

Took the words out my mouth

 

[LATS]

@LATS
@luki7788

Thank you so much for sharing such interesting facts. Access to cycles, even for "lesser" professionals – around 225 – isn't knowledge for everyone. Because they probably loaded more into something like Big Rami or Roelle.

Overall, the cycle looks very good (testosterone and a derivative – EQ, DHT like Masteron or Primo, and NPP as 19Nor) and isn't the slightest bit excessive for a professional. In fact, the doses are just right – it'll be over 3 grams of AAS, but I'm wondering:

1) there's no prolactin inhibitor; I suspect Cabaser, etc., is added based on well-being and blood results;
2) they don't rely on MENT during the growth phase, sticking with classic NPP;
3) they don't use any type of IGF-1;
4) there's no insulin with – as you wrote – huge amounts of food.
5) A daily cheat meal? That's interesting.

I understand that substances like trenbolone, winstrol, halotestin, and bulking agents like Mediphorm are only used during the preparation phase.

Btw, @LATS, Can you tell us which of the 212 pros is taking these crazy 9-gram doses? Or at least give us a clue as to who it might be

Generally if estrogen is in line prolactin is " usually" ok.. but no mention of caber.. now if blood work is in line then i.imagine not.. I know that I took b6 at 300 a day and it took my prolactin down to 6.. so in other words I doubt I needed it.
If you re read the post insulin is used.. he just didn't outline the protocol..
I've only seen a few of the routines but no mention of ment.. and honestly when you have everything like eq, primo, test, mast that are proven time after time ment isn't " needed"..
And as for the 212 high dose guy? Everyone knows him.. but I was told by his supplier in confidence.. so I can't break that promise by divulging his name.. just like if you told me something I wouldn't do that to you.. but I understand the curiousity

 

[luki7788]

Generally if estrogen is in line prolactin is " usually" ok.. but no mention of caber.. now if blood work is in line then i.imagine not.. I know that I took b6 at 300 a day and it took my prolactin down to 6.. so in other words I doubt I needed it.
If you re read the post insulin is used.. he just didn't outline the protocol..
I've only seen a few of the routines but no mention of ment.. and honestly when you have everything like eq, primo, test, mast that are proven time after time ment isn't " needed"..
And as for the 212 high dose guy? Everyone knows him.. but I was told by his supplier in confidence.. so I can't break that promise by divulging his name.. just like if you told me something I wouldn't do that to you.. but I understand the curiosity

I honestly don't know why people are so fascinated by large doses and honestly I think gh15 and his forum have messed with people's heads - or at least mine used to lol

 

[LATS]

I honestly don't know why people are so fascinated by large doses and honestly I think gh15 and his forum have messed with people's heads - or at least mine used to lol

Impatience.. I think it's just human nature to be curious as to what woukd happen.. I will admit I've been staggered by the amounts I've seen over the last decade.. its always been there but now it's just being shared more.. but.. I do see a trend towards more recuperation based training and rest.. and for some it's bringing the doses down a bit.. which is good.. but there is no doubt that many of the guys in the olympia stage and top amatuer stages are pushing the envelope.. but some are not.. many top names now have no issue telling what they are doing.. and some of it is " wtf".. some isnt.. but most have us genetic average guys have to understand if you are elite in this game it's because you have resilience to the drugs.. so they can take more and not be too phased.. most of us cant.. look at Nathan deashe.. he openly said he runs tren at 400 mgs in his cycles year round.. for many years.. and doesn't feel ill effects.. 99% couldn't do that.. so I think the fascinating part is listening to those who can.. now I can tell you I cant.. nor do I want too.. im too paranoid of any issues.. I also don't want to go 200 mph around a track but watch it all the time lol

 

[kadafi2]

If you look at guys like a seasoned pro Reagan who literally got the hell out of dodge and hopped a plane out of there along with a few others you can see they are not scared of loading product.. and food.. enough so that a ifbb pro decided that's enough after 4 weeks left.. so there is no doubt they can be extreme.. but they also have breon visit there too and I'm sure he isn't pushed too hard in that he is in classic and doesn't need the size.. but if you willing to do what's needed
As for health markers.. from what I was told first hand is that many do take their health markers serious but... its after the fact.. its after a show and they try and bring everything in line.. but there is no way when your blasting grams that the markers can be perfect.. the cycle I was just told by a 212 athlete of that area is 1500 test sust.. 800 eq.. 600 mast enth.. 300 npp.. orals like anadrol are cycle in and out every 6 weeks ( but didn't give amount).. 10 to 15 hgh.. and slin rotated in and out every 4 weeks ( no amount given or how often).. this is off season and even then t4 t3 and other ancillary products are in the mix.. he did say that any health markers are addressed " with meds" when they are found.. now remember this is a 212 competitor.. is this what Oxygen recommends ? Maybe not but he said it was a fairly common cycle for someone his size.. he said the open guys can get a bit more extreme..

Generally if estrogen is in line prolactin is " usually" ok.. but no mention of caber.. now if blood work is in line then i.imagine not.. I know that I took b6 at 300 a day and it took my prolactin down to 6.. so in other words I doubt I needed it.
If you re read the post insulin is used.. he just didn't outline the protocol..
I've only seen a few of the routines but no mention of ment.. and honestly when you have everything like eq, primo, test, mast that are proven time after time ment isn't " needed"..
And as for the 212 high dose guy? Everyone knows him.. but I was told by his supplier in confidence.. so I can't break that promise by divulging his name.. just like if you told me something I wouldn't do that to you.. but I understand the curiousity

Indeed, I focused on the protocol @Luki wrote and omitted the details of yours, where insulin is present. You also mentioned IGF before, so everything is clear.
The topic of ment was also well explained by all of you.

As for athlete 212, I understand, no problem.

 

[luki7788]

Impatience.. I think it's just human nature to be curious as to what woukd happen.. I will admit I've been staggered by the amounts I've seen over the last decade.. its always been there but now it's just being shared more.. but.. I do see a trend towards more recuperation based training and rest.. and for some it's bringing the doses down a bit.. which is good.. but there is no doubt that many of the guys in the olympia stage and top amatuer stages are pushing the envelope.. but some are not.. many top names now have no issue telling what they are doing.. and some of it is " wtf".. some isnt.. but most have us genetic average guys have to understand if you are elite in this game it's because you have resilience to the drugs.. so they can take more and not be too phased.. most of us cant.. look at Nathan deashe.. he openly said he runs tren at 400 mgs in his cycles year round.. for many years.. and doesn't feel ill effects.. 99% couldn't do that.. so I think the fascinating part is listening to those who can.. now I can tell you I cant.. nor do I want too.. im too paranoid of any issues.. I also don't want to go 200 mph around a track but watch it all the time lol

Nathan said he always uses 400mg year-round, regardless of what else he's currently taking, lol. He doesn't prep for less than 1000mg of tren a week, but these are the exceptions and the extreme, not what most people do. Most people really do basic cycles, and as you wrote, back in the 90s and 00s, it was a time when doses mainly dictated how big you were. Today, much more attention is paid to training, recovery, supplementation, and maintaining health, so the doses have gone down.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Today, much more attention is paid to training, recovery, supplementation, and maintaining health, so the doses have gone down.

Nutrition as well imo. Now a days any bodybuilder worth a damn is treating their offseason diet just like prep but with more food.